Conference unifix::sailing

Walt, you will be delighted with your Autohelm. 

We've had an Autohelm 2000 since 1982. Ours is the original model for 
tiller steering. It works quite well, and has steered our 12000 lb
cutter in weather ranging from calm to a Gulf of Maine gale. Its 
response is fairly quick, power is certainly adequate, and it usually 
steers a more accurate compass course than we do -- it doesn't become 
bored. Electrical power consumption is gratifyingly low -- a fully 
charged battery has run the Autohelm for 24 hours, the masthead tricolor 
for an entire night, and the loran for maybe four hours and still started 
our not too easy to start diesel immediately. 

On the debit side, it isn't very waterproof. It will withstand light 
rain and spray, but I doubt it would survive much more. I hope the new 
models are better, though I am doubtful that they will be. Based on
reports from various offshore races (OSTAR, BOC, etc) I am convinced
that unless an electrical autopilot is mounted below decks, it will be
unreliable in bad weather. 

I'm not sure that the new model Autohelms are an improvement. Somehow
all that button pushing seems a step backwards from the old compass dial
arrangement. With this design you can manage without a steering compass
-- redundancy is always nice. The old models have the variable feedback 
(so many degrees of rudder for so many degrees off course) and automatic 
weather helm correction also.

Concern about the reliability of electrical autopilots, their electrical 
consumption, their basic need for electrical power, and the substantial
cost of below decks units, resulted in our purchasing a wind vane last
year. After considerable research, we bought a Monitor servo pendulum
vane. It is nicely made of stainless steel with delrin ball bearings.
Mark Schrader used a Monitor when he circumnavigated on a Valiant 40,
and six or so are being used in the current BOC race. 

So far we have been delighted with our Monitor. Mounting it on the 
stern was not difficult, though routing the steering and course control 
lines was a bit of a bother. It has steered very well in as little as 
5 knots of apparent wind both upwind and down. It has also steered well 
in 50 knot gusts and 6' seas. We looking forward to more extensive 
passages with it this year. One additional nice feature of the Monitor 
is an excellent repair manual and spare parts kit. Barring major 
structural damage, bearing replacement and other repairs are quite simple.

Reliable self-steering is, for us, of major importance, more important 
than loran. Self-steering allows one person to manage the boat -- sail 
handling, navigating, cooking, etc -- for extended periods if the other 
crew is ill or injured. 

Enjoy,

Alan

    RE.2
    Alan,
      Hi.  I was interested in your comments about the Autohelm 2000.
     I have the push button version.  I was concerned about the lack
    of a compass rose, however, I was able to quickly adapt to using
    the compass when setting a course.  The instrument unit is quite
    watertight for now.  I don't know how long the membranes will last
    on the push buttons, however.  We sailed up to Camden last summer
    and used the autohelm exclusively.  I am quite pleased with it's
    performance.  I want to couple it to my loran at some point.
    
      Good Sailing
       Joe
    

re .2:

Given that the loran-autopilot interface is $495 list, why? Prudent 
seamanship suggests that there be a crewperson on watch at all times. 

Assuming that your loran gives cross-track error (as almost all do now), 
it is simple to stay on course. Also, if you correct your course errors 
manually, you will, of necessity, have some idea of strength and 
direction of the currents. This information would be invaluable should 
your loran fail and force you to use dead reckoning. On our return trip 
from Nova Scotia to Marblehead (rhumb line from Cape Sable) the tidal 
current into/out of the Bay of Fundy was enough to require substantial 
course adjustments.

One more point. If you do not couple the loran to the autopilot, you do 
not need to run the loran continuously. This can be a significant reduction 
in electrical consumption over a long period. 

Alan

    I thought about the lack of a compass dial on the Autohelm control
    unit too.
    
    At first I thought it to be a disadvantage:  If I know I want to
    sail 225 degrees magnetic, wouldnt it be easier just to set that
    into the control unit ?  What occurred to me was that this compass
    is not compensated for openers, and subject to absolute errors so
    I would have to verify/set my course with the ships compass anyway.
    With a relative only compass (no dial), I will set an absolute course
    from some source (main compass, Loran C, D/R or combination) and
    permit the pilot compass to maintain that. I no longer care if the
    Iron engine block causes a 10 degree deviation of the internal pilot
    compass on a particular heading, cause the compass steers whever it 
    is when I push the button.

    Does that make sense ?

re .4:

Yup, makes sense. I set my old dial Autohelm against my steering compass 
since I know the errors in that compass. But I bet I can twist my dial 
100 degrees to tack the boat faster than you can count 10 button pushes!

By the way, all you sailors out there, how many of you have ever 
determined the deviation in your steering compass? If you are blissfully 
asssuming it is correct, I suggest you don't. Our Ritchie was off up to 
some 12 degrees when new as I recall. After a fair bit of fiddling, it is 
now off a maximum of 4 degrees. We still consult the deviation table 
regularly.

Alan

    OK. You probably can rotate your knob a mite faster than I can
    push the 10 degree button 8-10 times. If I decide on the windvane
    option, that becomes 2 buttons pressed at once, but based on your
    comments about the windvane, I will probably determine the value
    of one by doing without this next season.
    
    I can second Alan's "By the way,...".  Our first season, the ships
    compass seemed to require no correction or deviation card. The second
    season (the compass head was removed for winter storage) showed
    some errors in excess of 15 degrees on our first sail.  We went
    thru a full day of compensation/verification and created a deviation
    card.  I have since found the Loran-C can speed the verification
    process considerably (but any tidal currents will throw errors into
    the process).
    
    Walt

    YOU CAN ADD ME TO THE LIST OF PEOPLE THAT HAD DEVIATION ERRORS.
    I HAVE TWO RICHIE'S THAT I THOUGHT WERE PREETY ACCURATE (I COMPARED
    THEM TO A COUPLE OF HAND HELD'S).  I HAD SOMEONE CHECK THEM AND
    #1 WAS OFF BY 8 DEGREES, #2 WAS OFF BY 11 DEGREES.  THIS WAS A
    SURPRISE IN THAT WE THOUGHT THAT THEY READ THE SAME!
    
    RE: 3
    ALAN, I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT PROPER WATCH AND ALL THAT.
    I'M SURE THAT YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED COURSE VARIATIONS DUE TO CURRENTS
    PARTICULARLY UP (OR DOWN) IN CASCO BAY.  AN AUTO HELM, EVEN WHEN
    PUTTING IN A FACTOR FOR DRIFT, JUST WILL NOT KEEP YOU ON A RUMB
    LINE COURSE.  IF YOU COUPLE THE AUTOHELM WITH THE LORAN YOU CAN
    FOLLOW A GREAT CIRCLE ROUTE.  GRANTED, IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP YOUR
    LOGS AND CHARTS UPDATED IN THE EVENT OF AN ELECTRICAL FAILURE. 
    FOLKS SHOULD DO THIS ANYWAY-REGARDLESS OF HAVING THE ELECTRONICS
    COUPLED.  LASTLY, THE INTERFACE CAN BE HAD FOR FAR LESS THAT $495
    FROM PUMPKIN MARINE-LONDON.
      AH, FOR THE SUMMER!
    

If my calculations are correct, the difference between the rhumb line 
distance from Marblehead to Bermuda and the great circle distance is 
about 0.5 mile. At six knots, sailing the great circle will reduce your 
passage time about 5 minutes (0.4 sec per mile).    

:-)

    RE: .8 (for those who wonder what Alan said)
    
    Rhumb line is basically a straight compass course from one place
    to another.  Great circle route is the course steered if one draws
    a line along the intersection of an imaginary plane (which is defined
    by the point of departure, point of arrival and the center of the
    earth) and the surface of the earth.
    
    The difference between rhumb line and great circle distances on
    purely N-S (true) is zero.  Great circle routes become shorter
    than rhumb lines when adding E-W components (like sailing from Newport
    RI to Plymouth England), except at the Equator.
    
    Thats because the plane defined by any circle of longitude passes thru 
    the center of the earth (the great circle) and lines of latitude do
    not (except at the equator), but are parallel.
    
    Just thought you would like to know.

    
    Walt

    A near end of first season update:
    
    If you will remember I have the Autohelm 3000.
    
    I am on the second belt. The first one began slipping on the wheel
    pulley (the motor pulley is cogged with the belt and cannot slip). It is 
    temporarily correctable by burning the nylon or dacron reinforcement
    exposed by slipping (or turning the wheel a lot without popping
    the belt off the pulley on the ships wheel) with a butane lighter.
    It still doesnt preform like a fresh belt. Maybe someone knows of
    something which restores the rubber surface to the these things.
    
    I make it a point to remove the belt from the wheel pulley immediately
    upon disengaging the pilot. That way it doesnt wear on the sandpaper
    like texture of the wheel pulley.
    
    
    I noticed the motor housing appeared loose this past weekend. When
    I got back to the dock, I opened the motor up and found 3 screws
    which hold the gear reduction assembly to the motor mount were very
    loose. Another 3000 owner at the dock said he saw the same thing
    a few days ago.

    It is easy to open the motor assy up. Just unscrew the bullet shaped
    end of the motor by turning CCW (the piece between the power wire
    and the first red band).  The bullet end comes off and down the
    wire. This exposes the motor, and the 3 screws. The motor comes
    out very easily, since it is located only by a pin and the extension
    of the motor bearing. The motor is held in place when the bullet
    cover is screwed back in place, by the cover.

    Looking at the design, if these screws are loose, the motor can
    be damaged by leaking salt water. If tight the assembly should be
    waterproof.
    
    I have done some singlehanded sailing this year and feel this was
    a great purchase for me.
    
    Walt

    re .10	I'm not familiar with the exact parts used, but I do
    know that "belt dressing" is available from auto parts stores to
    remove the glaze that forms on slightly slipping belts.  It isn't
    really a cure if the belt is badly gone, but if applied early enough
    it can help.
    
    	Reg
    

    The belt in this case is a flat belt with teeth.  The teeth consist
    of layers of fabric and rubber.  The pulley on the motor end uses
    teeth as well to prevent slipping.  The pulley at the wheel end
    uses a sandpaper like surface which contacts only the teeth of the
    belt.  This is done to permit slippage (I think) when high loads
    or sudden stresses are applied. When the sandpaper like surface wears
    down the teeth on the belt just a hair and some nylon like fabric
    is exposed which acts like a lubricant, and increases slippage.

    So the problem is a bit different than with V-belts.
    
    Walt

    
        Does anyone have any experience with NAVICO autopilots?  For
    my 25-footer the NAVICO-TP1600 and the AUTOHELM AH-800 appear to
    be the best alternatives.
    
        The major differences seem to be:
    
    		NAVICO				AUTOHELM
    
    		Set course with compass dial	Set by depressing +-
                                                10 and +-1 degree buttons
    
    		150 mA avg power consumption	300 mA avg pwr cmp.
    
    		9.5 sec "hardover" time		12.5 sec
    
    		$275				$290 (I think)
    
    		remote "dodger" capability	full course control
    						on remote
    
        	adjustable seastate ctrl	automatic seastate ctrl
    
        This information comes mostly from NAVICO and is reprinted
    almost verbatim in the Boat-US catalog.  
    
        The major problem I see with the AUTOHELM (never having used
    either one) is that the "tack routine" which is initiated by 
    depressing the +10 and +1 buttons simultaneously is preprogrammed
    to tack through 100 degrees... nice except that the Irish Mist
    tacks through about 110 degrees.  I'm told you have 20 seconds
    before the AUTOHELM thinks that it's off course and tries to tack
    back again.  I'm envisioning being singlehanded in, say, 6-8 foot
    waves, starting a tack, something gets snagged or I forget to 
    move the winch to the windard side, etc., and I have to worry
    about TWO problems instead of one, since it is not going to 
    come up on its new course and will tack again without manual
    intervention.
    
        Is this one of those things that looks worse on paper than it
    is in practice?  The compass rose adjustment on the NAVICO would
    allow me to set the new course without the bother, although it is
    unlikely that the compass rose on the pilot would agree with the
    main compass or the handheld, and may require a separate deviation
    chart.  In practice I doubt I'd ever use it, though.
    
        Does anyone have any experience with these units, or care to
    comment on the compass-rose vs pushbutton approaches?  Also, is
    automatic seastate control desireable, or is it better to have
    manual control over this as on the NAVICO?
    
        - Jim (Irish Mist)
    

    Practical sailor did a steady sometime ago on Navico and Autohelm
    autopilots.I was very impressed with the graphics that showed AH-800
    trail under almost any point of sailing to be straight with hardly any
    zig-zag.I don't have any personal experiense with either,as a matter
    of fact I don't own an autopilot but if you like I can gladly send you
    that copy of the P.S.
    

RE: -.2,

I've sailed (and tacked a lot) with an Autohelm 6000, so these comments 
probably should reflect only on the pushbutton feature.

Far and away the easiest tacking strategy was to hit the appropriate
10-degree button (there are 4 buttons: 10+, 10-, 1+ and 1-) 9 times in
quick succession to initiate the tack through 90 degrees (our target; you
could hit it 10 or 11 times just as easily.)  Then I'd forget it, and work
aft for a few seconds to release one running back and haul in on the other. 

She'd come right around, not too fast but fast enough (whether we were
doing 5 kts or 15), and sail well enough to get us moving while we trimmed 
the sheets to the last inch.  From there I would pick up the remote again 
and feed in 1+ or 1- adjustments while following the telltales at first 
and then the knotmeter.  Easy work for a crew of two on a boat with many 
strings and fairly big lines and hardware.

For all of us, it was a simple set-and-forget helm routine each tack, and 
range-adjustable for varying conditions and situations.  You just have to 
be able to count rapidly and accurately up to 10 or 11!

J.

    I have used an Autohelm 1000 for a few seasons on a Moody 28. I
    decided to go for the 1000 rather than the 800 for several reasons.
    The motor is more robust important in the sailing conditions of
    the UK....., If time and wallet ever permit a variety of attachments
    can be added in a modular way ie a wind vane attachment with autotack
    etc. The unit has proved very reliable and able to control the boat
    in winds of 30 knts with appropriate seas. To tack I also hit the
    10 degree button the approriate no of times. My wife likes the unit
    because it is easy to rig and stow plus instruct visitors on its
    usage. I would recommend that you hitch a ride on craft with both
    units fitted and see what you feel comfortable with. I would offer
    you a glimmer at the 1000 but a) I am out of the water until middle
    of March b) The airfare to the UK might make it an expensive
    inspection.......
         
    Pete 

    Anyone have any input (or spare parts) for a Tiller Master autopilot?
    
    I have an opportunity to pick one up for my Com-Pac 19-II (sic) very 
    inexpensively (I'm guessing $50 or less.) It is 1985 vintage and
    appears to be in very good mechanical (and electrical) SHAPE.
    
    I played with it in my
    kitchen for a while yesterday, and it seems to work pretty well most
    of the time. I did have a bit of feedback string slippage, but I think
    I have that under control.
    
    If anyone has a spare feedback string and spring and or the manual
    doger switch box, I would be very interested in obtaining the same.
    
    Since most of my sailing is on Lake Winnipesaukee (cept for July 
    along Maine coast), this is pretty much a toy for me, but since the
    price is right, I'm probably gonna buy it. 
    
    Anyone (other than the moderator, with whom I have already chatted)
    have any opinions, knowledge or schematics? I do have the owner's 
    manual, but not a schematic.
    
    Bill
    
    (who may be moving toward the best equipped 19' boat in N.H.. Al least
    I'll be in good shape when I'm ready for a bigger boat).
    

    I am sorely tempted to plunk down the money for an autohelm-type
    device.
    
    Autohelm seem quite a bit more expensive than Navico for the
    appropriate size system and Autohelm offer less features.
    
    I would look at the Autohelm 3000 (I think tiller anyway) Vs. the
    Navico 5000/5500.
    
    Anyone have any advice as to which is the best way to go ?
    
    P.s. boat is 32', 11,000 lbs 

Both appear to be excellent devices. I gather that the prices are a 
little hard to compare because of the varying standard and optional 
features. As I recall the specifications, the Navico is somewhat less 
power hungry, which I'd consider a significant advantage. 

Our first generation design (current designs are third-generation)
Autohelm 2000 purchased in 1982 continues to serve us well on our 32',
12000 lb boat. We've come to consider an autopilot to be an essential
bit of gear for our mostly double and singlehanded sailing. 

Alan

    Practical Sailor has an article comparing these systems which came out
    around two years ago.
    
    	Ron
    

I have kept my copies of Practical Sailor for the last couple of years.  If you 
would like to borrow that issue, I will try to dig it up.

I can be reached at AK01, dtn 244-7075 or at 70 Middle Rd. Boxborough
635-0460.

Doug Claflin

    Thanks Doug, however I had done such a good selling job on my wife on
    the idea and, given that our cruise is coming up fast, I made a
    decision (and placed and order) on Friday.
    
    I decided to get the Navico 5500 which is good for up to 45 feet and
    has up to 143 lbs thrust and a hard over time of 5 secs.
    
    It sounds like a good unint and Boats US said they would ship
    immediately.  Now, what will Canada customs do .......

    
    
    	Practical Sailor gave a _very_ slight nod to Navico, and I found a
    rebate coupon, so that's what I bought. I also have an ~11,000 lb. 33
    footer. It worked great except that once in a while, it would only
    complete half of a tack, from port to starboard, putting us nicely in
    irons. Also, once during a rainy return from P-Town, it just decided to
    jam the helm hard over. So I shipped it back, it was repaired, no
    problem since.
    
    	Does anyone have the remote? So far, $250+ fells too high for the
    benefits.
    
    	Any way you go, these are *great* things to have. A quiet crew who
    doesn't lose attention on long legs! And uses *NO* ice!!
    
    	Scott.

    Sailing a Soverel 33 (6000lb) with a Navico is the only way.  You NEED
    that helm over time to react to the invariable puff.  In seas and wind,
    it was the only answer.  That brainless thing would work after long
    after every helm-capable person on board burned out.
    
    

    A while back (month or so), someone inquired about A Tiller-Master
    Autopilot (out of production?). I have found the name of the company
    that allegedly has (or did have) parts for Tiller Masters.
    
    I just found my literature on my TillerMaster, and the company and
    address are the same as the Sticker on my Tiller Master. It is:
    
    	Tiller Master
    	774 W 17th Street
    	Costa Mesa, Ca 92627
    
    I have no idea how old this information is.
    
    Bill
    

    Does anyone know how to get in touch with Alpha Marine Systems,
    Milpitas, CA?

    They make Alpha autopilots. I tried information for Milpitas but there
    was no listing.

    Can anyone recommend a good marine electronics repair place near the
    Cape/Central Mass?

    As must be obvious, mine is broken. It's a ram drive direct to the
    quadrant and can opnly go from completely extended to midships. It
    seems like the rudder feedback mechanism is off or someting like that.
    It was working fine at the start of this weekend, but after a number of
    people used it during an overnight passage, it developed this
    extension problem. It could be that someone tried to adjust course
    using the wheel w/o disconnecting the ram from the quadrant.

    Has anyone had experience with Alpha Autopilots?

    tnx,
    paul