Conference terri::cars_uk

    Having worked in most of the (unpleasant) conditions you described, I
    have to say it sounds wonderfull.
    
    The main gaiting factor as far as I am concerned would be what cost can
    I reaonably handle, on top of my usual rent,tax etc... and translated
    into �� that looks around �80/month max. which is what I pay for my
    current stocking facilities.
    
    Paul (Geneva, Swtizerland). 

    Depends on whether you're suggesting long-term lease, or short-term,
    such as by the hour/part-day. It's a good idea, BTW, I have a feeling
    it's been done before, with 'experts' on call as part of what you get
    for the money. I can't think where and when though.
    
    Laurie.

    
    
    Hmmmmmm,
    
    Already got it on Saturday mornings ...... �35 for five weeks gives
    access to all the college facilities. This includes hydraulic lift,
    compressed air, power e.t.c. Can't over sell the bargain I'm getting.
    
    On the other hand I have just had to relinquish the lock up I was using
    that cost �10 a week. This had no power and was room enough to park the
    car but not work on it without the usual contortion.
    
    A shared short term (five year) lease on a suitable warehouse with
    power might tempt me. There must be a few really cheap buildings up for
    lease at the moment.... Is this the beginnings of a car club ??
    
    
    						Chris.
    
    
    

    Let me expand on the idea a little.
    
    I had envisaged meeting a variety of needs:
    
    Storage, long and short-term
    Working space without the restrictions of walls everywhere
    Somewhere to do the messy jobs like pressure washing major assemblies
    and spraying
    Workspace where you can leave a job half done and come back a week
    later to find everything just where you left it (half the problem I
    experienced in doing the Granada up was the need to keep clearing
    everything up and putting things away in the garage......)
    
    35 squid for 5 weeks is Ok, Chris but you gotta take everything there
    to start and remove everything afterwards.
    
    I'm trying to keep the cost down by assuming that most people will be
    prepared to tote their tool box around, but would want to leave the
    car, say, up on axle stands in between work sessions if it wasn't
    mobile at that stage. Assume that every occupier would need to carry
    his/her own risk/liability insurance. It might be possible to arrange
    major facility sharing like oxy/acetylene facilities, but I'd rather
    restrict the facilities supplied to light, power and air.
    
    Remember this is supposed to be a low-cost low-risk venture!
    
    So let's put some boundaries on things. What would people  be prepared
    to pay for the exclusive use of a space 30' X 15' with the basic
    facilities (light, power, air) for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months or a
    year and what would people pay for a simple storage space for a vehicle
    under wraps for similar periods?

    You should also be working this backwards, and looking at what it will
    cost you to provide those facilities... Being a cynic at heart, I'd
    guess that people's expectations will not meet your costs. You should
    also be more specific about your 'market'. Are you aiming for the
    Saturday afternoon change the brakes/oil/plugs brigade, or the
    kit-builder? Or, perhaps, the whole spectrum. If so, the costs issue
    comes much more into it, as the long-term stuff will be *significantly*
    less remunerative than the short-term stuff.
    
    Laurie.

	I would guess that this would only appeal on a medium to long
	term basis.  That is, most people can change their oil and do
	other minor jobs within a day.  So, even with no garage, they
	would wait for a sunny day and do the job.  With even a cramped
	garage, they can manage a lot of stuff.  So, I think that you
	would be looking rents of more than a week.

	For me, such a service would have to include the use of some
	major equipment that makes the job somewhat easier.  For example
	a pit or lift would be handy for jobs under the car.  Another 
	example would be a hoist or spring compressors.  Absolutely 
	fantastic would be some on-line help from an expert for tricky
	bits (but that's just fantasy).  Also, how much I'm willing to
	pay would depend on the job in hand (the cost would get factored
	in).  So, I would not bother for, say, changing a brake caliper
	but I would for changing an engine.  You should note that 
	garages (Halfords at least) charge �32 an hour for labour, so any
	services that you were to offer should work out at far less
	than this.  Or to put it another way, the financial choice between
	doing it yourself by hiring this facility and having a garage
	do it should be easy.  (That's leaving aside the problem that
	garages all too often cock things up anyway).

	Dave

    
    We're looking for somewhere to store our trailer, (again! :-) ) - and
    in the Reading area would probably be expecting to pay between �10 and
    �20 pounds per month..... depending upon the security/ease of access
    of the storage place. In what you're proposing, this type of storage 
    would not require the heat/light option, and probably would not make 
    you any money :-( 

    Re several back....... I hear what you write Laurie.
    
    At the moment, my thinking is more around the provision of minimal
    offering at minimal cost. I certainly won't be getting into the
    business of supplying specialist tools etc...... there are too many
    rental places around at the moment!
    
    Nothing's set in concrete at the moment... I'm just thinking out loud
    about all the things that a fat redundancy cheque can do!
    
    I'll keep posting my mental meanderings on this subject until it's no
    longer possible so to do.......
    
    If anybody that is interested in seeing this to a reasonable fruition
    wants to send me their address/'phone number, I'll be happy to stay in
    contact after my demise.

    
    
    Yes, I have realised that I have to take all the pieces home soon after 
    2.00pm having started a major piece of surgery and not completed it in
    the alloted time. 
    
    The use of a suitable area with just heat and light would interest me.
    I would not expect any more as I have access to all the tools including
    the esoteric already.
    
    I guess the two main criteria that would influence me would be location
    and length of time. Do you have any ideas on cost per square foot as a
    starting point ???  You may find you can take on quite a large building
    and sub let it based on size and time. 
    
    Some deciding to take on a piece for a reasonable length of time an the
    remainder being let on a weekly/monthly basis. Less than week is
    probably not worth the effort unless you meet the proverbial gift
    hourse.
    
    					Chris.
    
    

    
    I've jumped in at the end of this a bit, just scanning the previous
    notes, so accept my apologies if this has been covered :-
    
    What about Insurance? This sounds like a potential landmine for the
    owner's insurance (Ah, but the car was in a commercial garage sir, it's 
    their problem, not ours!) and an even worse one for the operator,
    should he suddenly get stung with bills for stolen/damaged parts and 
    vehicles.
    
    Equally, what sort of security could/would you envisage being provided?
    Even with adequate insurance, few kit/classic owners are going to use
    your facilities for long if their tools/rare-parts (ooh err, Missus!)
    are damaged or go missing?
    
    Having said those negative things, the concept sounds attractive. I
    think it's pretty unlikely that I'd want to build a kit in a garage,
    but maybe I would in somewhere like you describe. (Now should I build 
    an XKSS replica or an XJ13?).
    
    Mark

    Perhaps I should come clean on this one.....
    
    I have the opportunity to "acquire" most if not all of what is
    currently an unused workshop which is situated on an industrial estate
    in Newbury. It has three phase power, light, heat and water laid on as
    well as a parts storage area on some staging sort of an internal upper
    floor. The basic construction is nothing to write home about, but is is
    secure and watched over by a 24hr service. there is also a crane on an
    internal pillar that reaches to most parts of the floor area and a
    large air compressor and tank in the corner.
    
    I would want to take some of the floor area for my own use (large
    machine tools and work on my own car) and am looking to offset the
    costs preferably totally, but not necessarily so. I don't mind paying
    my way....... So it would not be a commercial premise, although it
    would attract the uniform business rate and I wouldn't want to pay for
    anybody else's consumables.
    
    This doesn't really have a chance of being a **TOTALLY** commercial
    venture, so I'm not looking to get rich quick, just to get a decent
    workshop facility out of it for my own use.......
    
    How would you good folks react to a charge of �400/year for exclusive
    use of an area 20' X 20' plus access to all the "shared" facilities?
    How about �250 for a similar area for a 6 month period and �175 for a
    three month period? We'd need to work out some kind of scheme to divvy
    out the electric bill.......
    
    Storage would be a lot cheaper.... say �15/month for space for one car.
    
    Oh, Insurance..... good point Mark, but this would definately be down
    to the individuals that used the facilities to arrange. So each to his
    or her own on that score.
    
    
    Keep the thoughts coming, this might just take off!

    
  >>
    Storage would be a lot cheaper.... say �15/month for space for one car.
  >>
     or trailer? :-)
    
    
    Elaine

    
    I suppose I ought to think about charging twice for a car on a trailer,
    Elaine!, but probably not. 
    
    Keep the ideas coming....

    Ahhh !
    
    If only I lived in the UK... I need to find a new place to store my
    Spitfire - �15 a month would be fine with me, and �400 a year for the
    work space would also be great.
    
    Paul

    
    I wish as well. Working on your own car in Germany seems impossible.
    
    Most underground carparks associated with flats expressly forbid any
    work on your own car.
    
    Jonathan Stubbs
    

    
    Dick -
    
    Been away, so just caught up on this. Might have guessed what you're up
    to!
    
    I currently rent 3 council garages at �12 p.m each to store my
    motorcycles etc. Cars live out in the wet... Trouble is that Newbury is
    away from home, & 30-odd motorcycles in an open area are a bit
    vulnerable!
    
    You'll have no difficulty at the unit rate you quote, subject to
    security. Might be well worth considering a sub-let to a one make club,
    or any other group where it is likely to attact the right people (you
    know what I mean....)
    
    BTW, I also have the Gilbern currently in West Wales at �2 a week, just
    to give a flavour on pricing. 
    
    What about a discount to those providing heavy machinery for the
    common use of all (but not to be lifted by the light-fingered)?
    
    
    Colin
    

    
    Yes, 
    
    I'm more than tempted at that rate. How many people do you need to make
    a go of it ??
    
    Chris.

    Colin... I can't beat 2 quid a week or whatever tiny rural rate you are
    paying.
    
    Chris... I'm getting enough positive vibes to make some very serious
    enquiries of my source about the financial side of things. If I play my
    cards right I could work a scheme that could make things possible with
    about 5 or six people in on the scheme. It will probably depend on the
    ration of people that want to either just use space for storage and
    those that want work area.
    
    Anybody else.....
    
    If there were to be inside the workshop a large milling machine able to
    cope with head skimming and a lathe capable of doing things like
    shorten drive shafts and skim disc rotors and flywheels, would that
    make things more attractive? Throw in a couple of decent sized pillar
    drills too.

    
    Dick --
    
    
    Didn't expect you to match the deepest Welsh rate! That's to a little
    old lady who has a spare empty shed, & she likes a victim at which to 
    natter!
    
    I reckon your rate is fully competitive around here. I know you will
    have no difficulty getting the folk - especially if you extend your
    search a little outside DEC. The issue of light fingers is a very
    serious one, & that may be your key determinant of who you want to be
    involved (hence my comment on one make clubs, or similar
    shared-interest groups who are likely to be careful with, & of, other
    people's kit).
    
    Colin
    
    

    Thanks for the input, Colin.
    
    I will be persuing this one more thoroughly now and will attempt to get
    some kind of notice out to all the troops that gaze over this conference
    when something gets off the ground.
    
    Don't feel that the conversation stops here, any and all opinions
    welcome.
    
    I will probably go outside DEC in due course.... I have a friend that
    works for ICL that is mad keen on '60's Riley 1.5's and also has a '51
    (I think) Lanchester Saloon that his dad gave to him (s'okay, he's got
    several others, so he didn't miss one!).

    
    Dick -
    
    It so happens that I have a '59 Riley 1.5 sitting in the garden as
    something I once thought I might rebuild for classic rallying.
    
    Very faded, but rebuildable (considerable effort required). Complete, 
    but no registration number currently allocated (gone to the Gilbern). 
    Available to your ICL pal for spares/rebuild for a reasonable offer.....  
    
    All he needs is somewhere to store it!
                              
    
    Colin

    This idea sounds pretty good to me too.  Without knowing of what cost
    any alternative storage might cost, I wouldn't baulk at paying the
    �400 per annum price.  In my case, I think I would still prefer to
    work in my own garage - since it's attached to my house and Newbury
    isn't so close...
    
    I also think that insurance(s) could be a biggish hurdle to get over,
    as well as considering any H & S rulings that may apply to the site
    if used by a number of people (although not 'staff').
    
    The tools/machines that may be available would be important to me,
    as well as someone on hand who has reasonable skill in using this h/w.
    You say that people would bring their own toolbox, that's fine, but
    maybe your idea of what each person would have in their toolbox
    would be different to others.  Welding kit being one example.  I do not
    have any welding kit, nor experience of using it.
    
    How many 'sub-units' would you expect to make from the space that you
    have available ?  The suggestion of contacting a one-make club may be
    a very good one, as you may get enough takers that way, plus they will
    be likely to know something of each other - maybe helping to reduce the
    risk of any one of them being light-fingered ?  Also, would you
    consider holding a deposit to cover electricity/heating bills etc ?
    
    J.R.

    Re last....... the property I have in mind has space for about 8
    "contributors". I'd install a separate meter to measure the consumption
    of electricity by each bay, but cover basic lighting in the rate. I
    had'nt planned on any heating.
    
    You're right in that the insurance aspects are the biggest hurdle and
    causing the most headaches......
    
    I'll keep working on it!

    
    Dick.
    
    Great idea. My car, although still used every day, needs attention
    to bring back to any former glory but I don't have anywhere suitable
    to do the work. The idea of lifting an engine or dropping the gearbox
    without having to rush to complete the job sounds appealing especially
    since the job can be revisited exactly as it was left. Anything to
    make life easier.
    
    The only other factor I would need to consider is ensuring that I have
    something to get me too and from work et cetera before taking the Alfa
    off the road.
    
    Keep us posted.
    
    JN.

   Dick,

   I would be very interested in such a facility. I am looking to store
   and work on my MGB roadster over the winter (see note 1872). 

   If you manage to get anything setup please contact me.


	Tel (work)  830 - 3256
	    (Home) 0734 - 788880

	
	David... 

    I think the author of .0 no longer works for the company.

re -2

Yes, Dick has left Digital. However, I see him regularly and will pass on
your numbers.

	Dave