Conference terri::cars_uk

P&O? Are they not the operator that puts profit above customer/employee 
safety? Did they not sack a load of striking employees who were concerned 
about their managements attitude to safety?

Dave.

    Amazed, moi aussi !
    
    Phoned P&O office in Calais to book a crossing in July and had the
    same deal. Give 'em your name, car type, and registration.
    
    They give you a reference number.
    
    Bosh - pay up at the port in the currency of your choice. Biz deal
    IMHO.
    
    T - he of the black legs.

    re -2.....
    
    Agree that Brittany Ferries have the best boats, by far.
    
    Never EVER travel Sealink unless you can guarantee a French boat
    on bith legs......
    
    

re .3:

I've travelled Sealink a lot (and not always on the French ships) and the
only problem I have experienced is with loading chaos on the Calais side 
delaying the ship on two occasions.

Dave.

    
                     
    
    I agree with the statement about some of the "French" Sealink 
    (SNCF) boats, they're appalling. Slow crossing and slow to load.
    In probably six attempts with them in the last couple of years 
    they've never made the crossing (DOV-CAL) in less than 2hrs. 
    The Brit boats are ok, when you can get them. 
                                             
    P&O aren't great, but at least the boats are modern and always seem
    to make the trip in the scheduled 1�hrs.  They also do special deals
    for the XJR Travel Club, so I'm sure this colours my judgement :-)
    
                                            
    Blackleg (3).
    

    
    	P&O had a slight problem on Sunday with one of their boats,
    apparently the Captain fell off the bridge in Calais and broke his
    leg... resulting in the ferry being delayed by just under 2 hours...
    
    	Rat took the Hovercraft

    
    There we were, waiting in Calais for our (P&O) ferry to sail, it was
    sunny, I was at peace with the world. Next door in the dock, was a
    Sealink vessel, it was making preparations to leave too, it was testing
    the lifeboats, it started to lower one, and the davitt (type of crane
    thing), just snapped, dropping the lifeboat 50/60ft.... SPLASH!
    
    We all cheered, one of those moments when a video camera was required.
    
    			Simon

    Still, at least you know that Sealink test the lifeboats.

    
    Re: .-1
    
    ...yes, it's nice to know there is going to be *lots* of bits of wood
    to hang onto in the water...
    
    ;-)

    Dover ferry services update required:
    
    1) Do the Hovercraft still run? If not
    		a) What has replaced them?
    		b) What are they like?
    
    2) Which of the Ferry Operators is recommended? P&O seem to have been
    	(with their "Business Class"). Are they still?
    
    3) What other routes are recommended for an overnight crossing on
    	a nice boat en route from Reading to Nice?
    
    JK

    
    I beleive the Hoover crafts dont run in winter. is it still winter in
    the UK ?
    

    the hovercrafts have been replaced by the seacat, a small twin hulled
    ferry that can carry about 40-60 vehicles, and is faster than a
    standard ferry.
    
    Only trouble is is so small it's not very stable so if you suffer from
    sea sickness avoid it. Oh, it also gets cancelled in bad weather, and
    the french are a$$$$$$s at arranging alternative transport.
    
    Richard

For getting to Nice, I'd recommend using a longer crossing, and go overnight.
Say Southampton to Le Havre on P&O.

You're then left with about 700 miles, which you could do in a single run
if your in a hurry. The overnight ferry gets into Le Havre at about 6:00 am.

re the hovercraft; .-2 is correct. The Seacats are faster than the ferries,
but slower then the hovercraft. Some people do apparantly find them
less stable than the ferries (that's one of the reasons why they don't
use them on the longer runs.)

Pop into a travel agent and check, as they are often re-furbishing ferries
at this time of year, so you may not get the boat you expect...

Peter.

    
    The Seacat curently holds the Blue Ribband. That's the prize for the
    fastest crossing of the Atlantic by a passenger carrying vessel.
    
    I don't see how anything that can cross the atlantic (something which
    I've never heard a standard ferry of doing) can be put of by channel
    conditions.
    
    I've been on one of these things and it is quite stable. The speed is
    not far behind that of an hovercraft but unlike an hovercraft you can
    walk freely about onboard, again an indication of its stability.
    
    As for longer runs I believe it's first passenger service was between
    Portsmouth and Le Havre.
    
    Chris
    

>                    <<< Note 1075.14 by PLAYER::WINPENNY >>>
>>                         -< Seacat explained a little >-

>>    I don't see how anything that can cross the atlantic (something which
>>    I've never heard a standard ferry of doing) can be put of by channel
>>    conditions.
    
    
    Been there seen it done it! Sunday 1st september, booked on seacat
    calais dover  return 5:20pm french time. Arrive at 4:30 "Welcome,
    seacat's cancelled, don't know when you'll be able to go"
    
    At various times there were announcements, offers to transfer to
    dunkirk/ramsgate, an hours car drive and about a 4 hour ferry crossing,
    no thanks. 
    
    Around 7:15 an announcement came about a few places on another ferry,
    there was a mad scrabble followed by a lot of arguing, untill I
    suggested they selected based on the time the ticked was stamped. Light
    dawned on the french administrators, and we eventually got one of the
    10 places available.
    
    Got back to UK about 4 hours late, and gratefull I'd been aggressive
    enough.
    
    Richard

Ahhh Gi'day...�

			    Hoover craft, giggle.

    
    I travelled Calais-Dover on Seacat in a force-9.  Apart from the first
    25 mins when we were broadside to both wind and sea (an interesting
    experience in a small craft) the crossing was impressively smooth. 
    Once the boat turned into the wind, the 3-hull design enabled it to cut
    through the waves rather than get tossed about by them.
    
    
    Nev.

    In answer to the question a few back, Reading to Nice, P&O Portsmouth
    Le Havre has to be the one to go for (I usually do it 2 or 3 times a
    year).  Either go overnight, if you are in time to book a cabin, or
    take the afternoon crossing - get off the boat late evening and drive
    just round Paris before bedding down for the night (the IBIS at Evry or
    the Campanile a couple of junctions before Evry (on the A6) are very
    convenient - the former is probably better because they have a 24 hour
    reception).  Then it's off after a leisurely breakfast to be in Nice
    (or perhaps Valbonne) before 17.00.
    
    Richard

    
    The Seacat hasn't replaced all the hovercraft, they still run with
    some frequency between Dover -> Calais and Dover -> Bolougne. 
    
    The Seacat seems to be in addition to the hovercraft and sails about
    ten times a day.

    Richard.    

Hi 

Does anybody have the telephone No. of P&O so that I can book a place for my
car on Sunday.

TTFN

Paul

    P&O can be found on (Int'l) +44 (0)304-223429, ask for car bookings.
    They have a problem with their phones at the moment.
    
    For anyone interested, the ferries plying the Felixstowe-Zeebrugge
    route are being re-furbished ready for the summer, and the replacements
    have *no sleeping accomodation*. On a 7 hour night crossing, this is
    less than amusing.....
    
    Laurie.

    
    re: .20
    
    The phone numbers of P&O include:
    
        Dover - 0304 203388
    
    	London - 081 575 8555
    
    	M25/Thurrock - 0708 865025
    
    	Felixstowe - 0394 604040
    
    	Portsmouth - 0705 827677
    
    	Calais - 21 46 10 10
    
    	Ostend - 059 / 55 99 55
    
    	Le Havre - 35 21 36 50
    
    
    Brittany ferries Portmouth/Caen are also worth thinking about if you
    are going down that way.
    
    Mike H.
    
    

    
    Did Reading/Nice last week. Used P&O, as always -- good.
    
    Caught the 1030 ex Dover, arr Calais 1245 local. Stopped at Valence,
    south of Lyons, first night.
    
    Spent Saturday on a gentle drive over the hills & Route Napoleon to
    Antibes. My usual route -- Crest, Die , Digne, Sisteron, Castellane,
    Grasse, Antibes.
    
    Very easy journey. Not much snow. Only excitement was 20 kms of white 
    knuckle stuff around Digne where 1000's (literally) of crazy drivers 
    coming the other way travelling between Monte Carlo Rallye stages. 
    
    The real competitors were (normally) OK -- the spectators & hangers-on 
    were a real pain, wanting my side of the road as well as theirs, 
    straight-lining all the blinds bends etc.......
    
    Colin
    Colin

    A nice way to travel P&O is to buy shares and get a 50% discount!! Did
    this many years ago (when it was European Ferries) and must have got my
    monies worth 10x over doing the Felixstow-Zeebrugge route to Holland.
    Mind you, I didn't think the ferries were much to go by in those days
    (apart from falling over) - the service on some of the other lines,
    including Sealink, was apparently much better. It would appear from
    some of these replies that P&O have got their act together well.
    
    Colin

    Also posted in Euro_motoring...(and a rat-hole in this topic!)...
    
          <<< UKCSSE::DISK$SINK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EURO_MOTORING.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< Driving in Europe >-
================================================================================
Note 215.22             France :  A26 Extends it's Reach                22 of 22
VOGON::KAPPLER "Spontaneity is fine in it's place..." 8 lines  30-JAN-1992 09:11
                            -< What A26 progress? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Time for an update on the missing section?
    
    How far does the A26 go now? Any progress on the Ch�lons-s-marne to
    Troyes gap?
    
    (I assume Troyes to Chaumont is now all A26?)
    
    JfK
    

    I still have my shares, still get the discount, the ferries are much
    better, and yes, they're paid for times over.
    
    Laurie.

    
    How many shares do you have to own to get the discount? Do you have
    to have held them for a given period?
    
    Thanks. 
     

    The discount (roughly) falls into two types, 25% and 50%. For the
    former, you need 300 Preferential shares (99p each roughly), for the
    full 50%, you need 600 Preferential shares.
    
    They must be held by the 31st December preceding the year of travel,
    they can be held in joint names. The shareholder must be in the party
    travelling (rarely checked).
    
    Laurie.

    
    Troyes gap was still there last week. The dreaded A77 was it's usual
    busy self.
    
    Gap due to be filled this summer, but haven't got the latest expected
    completion date.

    Are you sure that P&O shares are only 99p each ? 
    I'm sure they are about 400 - 500p each.
    I remember back in 1982(I think) thinking about investing a couple of
    grand into P&O ....Anyway the shares were at 115p each , with a low of
    85, so I thought I would wait and watch the market....Next week a take
    over bid from Trafalgar House and the price never looked back...Had a
    high of about 600p pre 87 crash.
    
    
                            KR

RE:                      <<< Note 1075.31 by YUPPY::RAVEN >>>
�
�    Are you sure that P&O shares are only 99p each ? 
�    I'm sure they are about 400 - 500p each.
    
    Yes, I'm sure. If you look again at my note, you'll notice that I refer
    specifically to Preferential Shares. These are acutally 5% 
    Preferential Shares, and are not the same as the "normal" shares. Next
    time you look at P&O in the paper, you'll see the two types, and the
    two prices.
    
    Laurie.

    Makes it a good deal then !

    
    On the subject of ferries for the trip to Le Mans, one of the people I
    go with was looking at cost last week. In the past we have gone
    Portsmouth to Caen. It cost a fortune if you go sealink on one of the
    shorter crossings and also means a long drive at the other end. Our
    problem is that we take a Range rover and also tow a large trailer.
    He's looked at a company called , I think trucklines. The downer is
    they sail from Poole and dump to in Cherbourg, the + side is that the
    sailing time is shorter is shorter that portsmouth/caen and the cost is
    about 50% of the britanny cost to caen. I doesn't make that difference
    to us if we go to Poole or Portsmouth we have to circumnavigate London
    Via the M25 or drive throught the middle. 
    
    If anyone knows , or has any experiance on doing that journey from
    Poole I would be intrested to hear.
    
    
    
    Garry

    
    My father went on a trip to France on this ferry line/route.
    
    Apparently the ferries are a bit basic compared with P&O, but what
    do you expect for 50% cheaper?
    
    Mark

    A bit basic.......
    
    
    	What about some of the older Sealink rust buckets.....
    
    
    Garry

    RE: .32 (my own note)
    
    I checked today's Telegraph, they're 5�% Preferential and they are
    indeed 99p.
    
    Laurie.

    Regarding Trucklines,  we took the Transit this way 3 years ago.  As
    you say a bit basic but they got us there.  Poole is a bit of a dump,
    but has the advantage of the "Lord Nelson"? on the quayside while you
    wait.
    
    We now go by Brittany Ferries on the Portsmouth/Caen route as this
    saves us petrol, we qualify for the group discount, and the crossings
    we wanted for this year have a special discount as well, which means
    the ferry bil this year is �30 cheaper.
    
    BTW
    
    I think you will find that Trucklines are a part of Brittany Ferries.
    
    Cheers Ian...

    
    re: Trucklines, they are associated in some way with Brittany Ferries,
    I think a subsidiary (or sibling) company.
    
    Mike H.
    
    

    Thanks for the info.
    
    
    	Unless someone get a finger out we might have to go that way.
    
    
    	Garry 
    
    	( he who sorts out camping and track tickets at Le mans)

    
    I'm travelling to Paris (Evry) for a meeting at the end of the month.
    
    What are the views on ferries/routes etc.
    
    I normally use Dover/Calais but have never been to Evry, it seems a
    little difficult to get to (on a map).
    
    Also comments on the travel time for Calais to Evry (or another to
    Evry) would be appreciated so I can plan the trip.
    
    Thanks
    
    Andy
    
    

    � Also comments on the travel time for Calais to Evry (or another to
    � Evry) would be appreciated so I can plan the trip.
    
    It's straightforward until you get to Paris; try to take the turning
    off for Lyon/Orly before you get to the route peripherique, or you'll
    add at least an hour onto the journey. I seem to recall its about 200
    miles, allow 4 hours or so. Its a good idea to stop for coffee frequently
    as the A1 is possibly one of the most boring motoways in the world, and
    I for one found it a struggle to stay awake on occasion. Oh yes, 80
    francs or so in tolls for that stretch...
    
    JJ.

    We used Truckline for our summer hols last summer, and it was fine.
    
    As mentioned, it is a little basic, but it had all the essentials.
    There were enough seats for everyone, and the food in the cafe was
    passable.
    
    Cherbourg isn't too far out of the way; roughly one hour or so before
    you hit auto-route. There is some dual carriageway, and some ordinary
    bits.
    
    I'd use it again, especially given  the cost savings.
    
    Peter.
    
    P.S. it's either a subsiduary or an "associate" of Brittany Ferries.
    

    
    How long is the crossing using the "Truckliners" route?
    
    
    Re : Calais -> Evry
    
    The trip is about four hours and as Mr Quick said the A1 is boring!
    
    The alternative to the Perepherique, the A86 or N186 depending on
    which signs you see always seems to me to be very hard to find coming
    from the North, but well signed on the way back from Evry. It's
    a road worth finding and maybe a French noter could offer some pointers
    as to its completeness and how to find it?
    

    If you can't find the A86, the 'other' route A1 -> A3 (sp Lyon)
    -> Perepherique -> A6 (sp Lyon/Orly) is well marked. Evry is well
    signed from the A6.
    
    Richard. 

    Poole to Cherbourg is about 4� hours or so, as far as I remember.
    
    It's quite fast, but only runs once or twice a day.
    
    Peter.
    

    
    
    I happen to have a copy of the Truckliner (Brittany Ferries) brochure
    right here, so.......
    
    Average crossing time is 4� hours, alhtough the 23.45 sailing from
    Poole and the 23.59 from Cherbourg don't actually arrive until 6 am,
    owing to the company not wanting to pay the dock staff overtime !
    
    Sailing times are:
    
    Poole-Cherbourg,                       Cherbourg-Poole
    
    April, 0830, 1600, 2330			0930,1700,2359
    May - August, 1230, 2345			0745,1900
    Sep-Oct 0100, 1230, 1330, 2345		0745, 1900, 1930
    Nov-Dec 1230, 2345				0745, 1900
    
    
    Not quite sure what happens to Januaury and February.......
    
    
    Ian

    
    	Re.28 and following, about discounts on P. & O. ferries if one owns
    300/600 Preference shares, the 25/50% discounts only apply on the Dover
    and Felixstowe routes.  Can't remember the Irish routes but certainly
    on the Portsmouth routes, the discount is only 20/40%.  Since the fares
    are so much higher than Dover routes, they are still substantial
    savings.
    
    	When I go over to drive down to Gibraltar, I've been going
    Portsmouth/Cherbourg overnight (which allows me to stop the following
    night in the French Basque - Pyrennes area) and I fill up with Diesel
    at Auchan at Cherbourg where it is cheapest in France (and much cheaper
    than Great Britain).  My question is: 
    					If I go Portsmouth/Le Havre instead
    (the night crossing is slightly longer allowing a little more sleep),
    is there an Auchan filling station in or very close to Le Havre?
    
    	I normally make my way to Tours and then down the Autoroute to
    Bordeaux.  On the Map, it looks as though Le Havre - Tours is somewhat
    shorter and quicker than Cherbourg - Tours.  What does the (with
    experience of these routes) panel have to comment about these two
    options?
    
    	From Cherbourg to Tours, I find that I have to pass Caen, but P. &
    O. don't go to Caen!
    
    	I once tried Portsmouth/St Malo but never again, not on a day
    sailing anyway.  Diesel prices in and around St Malo were at about GB
    prices!!!!  Not only that, it seems an awfull long way before one
    reaches "fast" roads.
    				Malcolm.     8-)