Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Does the 21 have space for a fog light on both sides? The 5 has
    a  reversing light where the other fog light should be.
    
    This is a really odd way of saving a couple of quid per car.
    
    Mark

the (UK) xr2i & french versions of vw polos are like this too

...Art

    I think most french cars only have 1 rear foglamp.  Mine has 2 lenses,
    but only one is connected up.
    
    
    John

    It was my quote you read. The French delivered ones have a rear
    fog on the left, the UK ones have one on the right. It takes about
    15 minutes to add two bits of wire and knock out a small plastic
    moulding and add the bulb holder which is a standard Renault part
    (the same as the other side!) to give a pair of lights.
    
    Regs ay that if you have rear fogs you can have either a single
    nearside or both sides fitted. They must either BOTH work or
    NEITHER work so the logic is that if you only have one, and the
    bulb goes you are still compliant.

less glare to those behind with only one fog lamp

you'd have to be stupid not to realise that its a car and not a bike in front
(should see rear lamps on both sides as you approach a car with only 1 rear fog)

...Art.

    Jeff, I just ordered off the quote and have been told that it'll
    be 10-12 wks delivery (Damn, I wanted it for a long trip over easter!)
    
    However...... Dave Riches has an identical one ('cept he chose auto
    gears rather than ABS) which was delivered in 3 wks. Steve Dickson
    (the sales chappie at Wheelers) in Newbury is chasing the order that
    went the PHH from fleet on 15/02/90. All the extras that were quoted
    for were specified as the original Renault bits (even the mud flaps
    as the "garage supplied ones" drag on the ground and you need to
    get the stanley knife to them) .......
                                     
    Give me a call on 7899-5777 if you want to hear the saga of my search
    for the next 2.5 year's motoring.
    
    Dick.
    

    Whoops, I should have said single OFF-side, shouldn't I?

Golfs also have only the off-side lamp fitted.  I have changed mine, but one 
piece of comment I heard was that having only one foglight helps to 
distinguish the fog light from the brake lights.  Since some-one has previously 
complained about the difficulty of doing this, perhaps it's not so 
penny-pinching to fit only one.

Mike

    Thanks for the info.  Sounds as though I can have twin rear fogs, then.
    Re <something> - I don't care about glare: when I use rear fogs, it's
    in conditions that don't cause glare, and I want to be sure I'm seen,
    and understood to be a vehicle x metres wide.
    
    If Wheeler's (my local Renault dealer) are in the running to get the
    order, I'll nhave no hesitation in going over there for a test drive
    (I rather fancy the TXE Auto hatch).
    
    Jeff-(just give me the trip computer; hold the car)
    

    Re .10
          
    I am not sure whether Wheelers will get the business from PHH, but
    they seem to be prepared to meet the discount level they expect
    to be asked for. I suspect that it's all to do with volumes of
    business, though I reckon that they will make a killing on the service
    costs over 2 years if the next one was as much a lemon as the first....
                                                         
    All I have done is to give Steve Dickson at Wheelers a copy of my
    order to the Fleet people and the name of the purchasing person
    in PHH that deals with Renault/and or Digital cars and told him
    to do the running around.                                     
                                                                  
    What I really fancied was a 4 wheel drive Savanna with the TXI engine.
                                                                  
    Why is it that the load carrier doesn't get the torquey motor?
                                                                  
    Why is the 4WD version available in France and not here?      
                                                                  
    Why does Renault insist on the extra 68cc above the tax threshold
    on the Turbo-Diesel?                                          
                                                                  
    Why don't the warning lights dim with the dashboard lighting or
    at least halve their intensity when the lights are turned on? 
                                                                  
    Why doesn't the windscreen washer bottle hold more than three squirts
    and a dribble?                                                
                                                                  
                                                                  

    > Why don't the warning lights dim with the dashboard lighting or
    > at least halve their intensity when the lights are turned on? 
    
    So they stay as warning lights?  One of my quibbles with the BX is
    that the clock is dimmed when the lights are on, so I can't see it
    when the lights are on in daytime.
    
    Jeff.

    965 = code name for new 911 Turbo

     ...should have bagged it earlier, Patrick...;^)
    
    

    Still got the bug Patrick?
    
    And who was talking about Z1s then?

    re .12.....
    
    
    There are several warning/indicator lights on the dash that are
    VERY bright and aren't dimmed when dash lighting is turned down.
    
    Funnily enough the clock LCD does......
    
    Another gripe is that you can't get fresh air on your face an warm
    anywhere else. In fact the only time you can get unheated air ANYWHERE
    is when the heater is off.
    
    I also find that Renault make a big play about the remote controls
    for the radio........ big deal when the radio gets tuned to radio
    4 permanently. The switches for the rear wash/wipe are about 3"
    too far away for me to be able to reach without stretchingb forward.
    Why not put those switches onto a stalk where they could be reaced
    without taking hands off wheel. I asked that of the technical man
    from Renault and he said it couldn't be done. "Go tell that to Ford,
    ARG, just about any other manufacturer" said I, and he couldn't
    reply.
    
    I also find that the radio is very sensitive to power cables. I
    commented on that to the aforesaid Technical man and he said "All
    radios do that" he said.....                             

    Can anybody (Colin O.?) give any info as to whether the 4WD
    transmission is due to arrive in the UK, preferably in the Savanna
    Bodyshell. It's currently available in France in the GTX petrol
    and GTD Turbo diesel versions.
    
    Anybody know why Renault don't put the 12valve motor in the Savanna?

    Well, on a Renault 5 GTT, you can get cold air from the centre vents,
    and the Radio/Cassette works perfectly, no interference whatever.
    
    Mark.

    
    ..... trust you to point out the ONLY Renault that gives mixed
    Cold/Heated air, Mark, or was that a special modification that you
    had put in with a lamppost?......... ;^)

Hit close to the mark!!

Update on the story. I should be picking the car up on Saturday. Our Insurance
Assessor has given it a clean bill of health, but asked them to fix up a couple
of scratches on the door (caused incidentally by people opening their doors on
to mine). It looked pretty shiny, and near to completion.

Only time will tell if there was damage to the sensitive bearings in the Turbo.

They've caught the people who did it apparently, and Wheeler's may try to take
them to court. I might tag along to see what happened!

Mark.

    
    I'll bring my chainsaw if you like! :^)
    
    Mark

Thanks for the support!

I'm just hoping they suffered whiplash, and will be wearing neck braces!!

Mark.

    Could we discuss Renault 5's in one of *their* notes please? :-)
    
    I often see a couple (or more) of Savannas outside in a pleasant shade
    of green.  Would that be Pine Green?  I was thinking of choosing Pine
    Green if/when I get a R21, but if it's going to be *that* common ...
    
    Jeff :-)

    
    Yup, that's Pine Green. That was what I'd have chosen but her indoors
    chose Tungsten instead........:-(
    
    Spoke to Dave Riches the other day (he has an Auto 21 Savanna TXE
    in Tungsten) and he says that this one is better than the last,
    better build, better quality, better finish, things don't fall off
    (or at least haven't fallen off yet)...... so maybe there's hope.
    
    Nice marketing ploy on the TXE...... "yes sir, you can have plain
    or metallic paint: of course the metallic is extra". Lo and behold
    the only non-metallic is white, every other colour is an extra �165
    or whatever it is ......

    Re quote 2928......
    
    This calls for the standard radio to be replaced by a Pioneer KEH
    8080. PHH finally tried to get me to pay more than they had quoted
    (i.e they screwed up the quote) but Pam went back to them and told
    them a few terse words. Long and the short of it is that for the
    price quoted, the car will be arriving with the standard radio replaced
    not by a KEH8080 which is now obsolete, but a Pioneer KEH 9000RDS
    at no change to the price quoted!
                   
    Looks like that car at that price is now a bargain so order now
    before the quote expires!

        Good on ya Pam!          
                             
    All I have to do now is find out the supplying dealer so I can make
    sure that the towbar electrics get wired up properly.........

    
    RE: A Couple back.
    
    
    Is this "Pine Green" metallic or super gloss (to uses Renault Jargon).
    
    If it is metallic is it not called "Lakeland Green".
    
    I has a "lakeland Green" R19. I is a very nice colour but seems to be 
    very prone to chipping from flying stones and the road salt that the
    gritters in this area used during the winter.
    
    Has anyone else noticed this with the metallic Renault paint finishes.
    
    P.S. The R19 seems to be far more common North of the Border and in 
    Southern Ireland than in England(mentions in this note seem to bear
    this out!!). In a four day visit to Leeds I only saw one. 
    
    
                  Alan. 

    Pine Green is a metallic finish, not the Renault "Supergloss" thingy...
    
    

    Take a look at the Renault 21 quotes on VTX.  My two for a TXE Auto
    have just arrived.  It was a biiig shock!  Working from list prices
    and existing quotes, I expected the non-ABS one to come in at around
    �1400, not over �2000!  After all, the list price of the TXI in
    quote #4725 is over �1100 more, and it is quoted at �1908 - �69 LESS!
    
    Fleet have promised to look into this - but meanwhile, does anyone have
    any ideas on this discrepancy?  If it's right, a wild guess would be
    that automatics command a lower resale value ...
    
    Jeff.

    Anyone got any comments (printable !) on the 21 petrol turbo ?
    
    potential_purchaser

    
    21 Turbo very highly regarded by the guys I know that own them.
    All the road tests praise the roadholding to the heavens.
      
    I'm waiting for the 21 Turbo 4WD, due in September in the UK. Cannot
    get a sensible price estimate from Renault GB, but must be in the
    18k region - I hope.
    
    Power is pretty good out of the box (BHP & torque). Chip for extra
    grunt cheap & easy to fit (300 pounds for 50 bhp from memory). May
    well be necessary to offset 4wd friction losses.

    Morning Colin, long time no speak. Do you not think that your
    anticipated price for the Turbo 4WD is a tad low? The "Marketing"
    guys will surely put a bigger premium on it than the few pennies
    that you suggest. The current list on the 21 Turbo 2WD is in excess
    of �17.5K........
    
    P.S. Did you find Tich?

    Thanks Colin,
    Do you know if the machine has that infernal voice synthesiser, a la
    R 19, which can only be disabled by disconnection ?
    
    Where's_that_hammer

     This is not Colin, but a 21GTX Savanna driver. The only thing that 
    comes close to a voice sysnthesiser in my car is some of the 
    cacophonous cr*p that my kids insist on playing on their personal 
    stereos in the car. Due to take delivery of a TXE in May (so much
    for the 3-4 weeks delivery promised by PHH) in May and that won't
    have one either.
    
    Dick......

    
    The good news -
    
    Renault UK will now take orders for the R21 Turbo quaddra.
    
    Build July, delivery post August.
    
    The bad news -
    
    starts at 21k pounds. No performance figures yet available, nor
    any clue as to whether engine has been tweaked to offset 4wd
    transmission losses.
    
    Anyone know where I can get a Peugot 405 Mi16 4wd with a turbo
    conversion .........
    
    Colin

    re-1
    
    Try Turbo Technics.
    
    Grant

    The Peugeot Dealet in either Whitney or Whitchurch (the one near
    guildford) offers tuned Mi16's all the way up to 250+ BHP - I got this
    info from Reading Garage (Peugeot dealer).  Apparently the same garages
    does the cylinder heads for the group C Jaguars for Tom Walkinshaw,
    though I'm not sure I believe this.
    
    They recently built a 4wd 200 BHP 205 to a special order,"just to see 
    if it could be done".
    
    Good luck, john

    
    Thanks for the info - I'll check it out.
    
    BTW, will PHH deliver a car direct from Turbo Technics or another
    specialist dealer? I think they do, but I'm not at all sure.
    
    Colin

    I believe they will, but the premium they charge is excessive - a 15%
    increase in the cost of the vehicle can translate into a 50% higher
    lease cost.
    
    Some people in this conference have had "modifications" done to lease
    cars after delivery - this is a cheaper alternative, but I hate to
    think what PHH/Hertz would do if they found out...  I'd be wary of
    these "chip" conversions to Turbo cars that give more power without doing 
    anything to the rest of the engine/clutch/gearbox/suspension etc, 
    specialist dealers or reputable turbocharging companies are the best in
    the long run.
    
    
    John

    Took delivery of my new R21 yesterday.  I'm very pleased with it.  The
    suspension is a dream compared with the BX, and I thought *that* was
    good.  I particularly like the running-in instructions: "For the first
    500 miles, do not exceed 80mph, after which you may drive normally."
    
    Jeff.

    Perhaps that should read 80kph rather then 80mph ...

    Where is it?. gissa look!.
    
    Richard

    Re: .40: No, definitely mph, with kph in parenthesis.  In fact I've
    been sticking to 70 so far - somewhat omigawd on the M4 in the morning,
    especially when having to pull out into the centre lane to overtake
    something.  I plan to take the twisty lanes home in the evenings - I
    understand it's more important to vary the speed during the running in
    period, rather than do a steady speed below the maximum recommended.
    
    Re: .41: It's in the rear car park, reg G 621 BLN (there - I remembered
    already!) - give me a bell on 4613 if you want to sit in it this lunch
    time.
    
    Jeff.

    How come you got it delivered this late in the month, Jeff.....
    I thought that there was a rule put on us by PHH/Hertz that deliveries
    wouldn't be made after 14th (or thereabouts) of the month to avoid
    wasting upwards of a month's tax.......

    I have just bought a used D Reg R21 GTS 1.7 last weekend. Since I got
    the car I have enjoyed its good ride and general handling. Has anyone
    bought a new R21 who had an older model and is the new improvement
    really improvement. Has anyone put slick 50 in the R21 and did it make
    any difference.
    
    Kevin
    P.S  and I dont have a Visor with " Kevin and Sharon"
    

    Re: .43: It was delivered yesterday, 22nd.  Maybe PHH got a special
    deal on half a months tax?
    
    Jeff.

    My current car was delivered on the 22nd February 88 by Hertz!.
    
    Richard

    Don't know if PHH/Hertz use the facility, but it's possible to tax a
    car for 1 year + n weeks where n is between 1 and 3 inclusive.  I
    believe this is a fairly recent change.

    OK - I'll bet all you R21 owners have been quietly sniggering waiting
    for me to fall for this one.
    
    1) Rain during afternoon
    2) Get in car, start engine, open driver's window
    3) Make a low speed left turn on way out of car park
    4) Half a bucket of water in lap
    
    I imagine it's something to do with the gullies down each side of the
    roof holding the water.
    
    Jeff.

    You obviously didn't order the optional extra ... the bucket to
    catch it all in :-)

    You are lucky nothing has fallen off yet.......

    Re: .50  How long does that take?  More than one week, from personal
    experience.
    
    Jeff.

    It took about a week from delivery for things to stsrt dropping
    off mine..... car that is. ;^)
    
    Don't worry, you too can be as lucky as me in the bits-falling-off
    department, be patient.

    Well, I've just been able to do a first check on consumption (miles
    from tankful to tankful), and find I am getting 31 mpg from a mix of
    motorway in the morning and country lanes in the evening.  This is far,
    far better than I got from the BX, but then I haven't been much above
    70 so far.
    
    Jeff.

                    <<< Note 965.53 by NEARLY::GOODENOUGH >>>
                         -< Pleased with consumption >-

>    Well, I've just been able to do a first check on consumption (miles
>    from tankful to tankful), and find I am getting 31 mpg from a mix of
>    motorway in the morning and country lanes in the evening.  This is far,
>    far better than I got from the BX, but then I haven't been much above
>    70 so far.
    

"31 mpg" !  Acording to "Which Car" the BX GTI (test driven on
a mixture of 'fast' and 'slow' roads.. over a week) should
not give you less than 30 MPG (I think they got 33 Mpg from
the weeks drive)

What were you getting in the BX ?

(I'll try and remember to enter the "Which Car" mpg figures
later on..)

    I used to get around 26 from the BX last time I checked.
    
    Jeff.

    Jeff,
    
    were you using normal unleaded as opposed to super? On my Gti
    
    	normal unleaded = 27mpg
    	super		= 32-36mpg
    
    Since more garages are offering super now its worth changing back,
    after all normal unleaded is only about 5% cheaper and at that
    difference in mpg....
    
    Nigel

I sometimes think that I'm an uneconomical driver.

All the reviews of my car, say they get about 35 mpg.

I only get that if I drive slowly.

I get about 27mpg on leaded, and 30mpg on unleaded.

Don't believe what you read.

Mark.

    Both in the BX GTi and the R21 I used/am using bog-standard unleaded.
    
    Jeff
    

    Try using lighter shoes, Jeff, or attach a thick piece of rubber to the
    underside of the throttle pedal....
    
    Does the 21 have comparable performance to the GTi??
    
    Colin

    > Does the 21 have comparable performance to the GTi??
    
    I think the published figures say no.  I can't tell, 'cos you're not
    supposed to get full performance until 1500 miles.
    
    Now a small, but related, rathole:  I'm told that when learning to glide,
    most people have more trouble turning right than left, since they're used
    to driving a car where you use your right foot (on the throttle) much
    more gently than the left foot on the clutch.  I haven't noticed this
    problem, so maybe there's an answer to your question :-)
    
    Jeff.

From the copy of Autocar I picked up this morning:

Renault 21 Quaddra (turbo saloon) with leather trim: �20,785
Renault 21 GTX Savanna Quaddra: �14,750

/. Ian .\

    Ian, do you have the magazine with you? any more info on the 4wd
    Savanna?
    
    As it's about the same price as the TXE that I've delayed delivery
    of until August (it's at the dealer now) (I wonder why?) ...... 
    maybe I should cancel and get the 4WD GTX instead. 
                              
    I seem to recall a local Renault salesman only about three weeks
    ago looking me straight in the eye and saying "4WD Savanna, Sir?
    No chance of Renault ever doing that, there's no demand."......
    :^)                       
                              

I don't have the mag with me, but I do have it at home ... and there was a 
Renault colour supplement included with a couple of pages on the 4x4.

I'll bring it in Monday...

/. Ian .\

    I've had the opportunity to re-test drive the 21 Turbo a few days
    ago. I had driven the 1st series which appeared to be powerful but
    brutal in the way the turbo power came to the wheels.
    
    With the new 21 Turbo I found:
    
    - much improved interior / facia. Not perfect but it looks right.
      No more grey plastic everywhere. Very good seats.
    
    - smooth turbo. The 21 Turbo doesn't feel like a 5GTT anymore. On
      the other hand, the impression is for a less powerful engine than
      before. Speedometer contradicts this feeling.
                                                       
    - very good mpg. Even at the speeds I drove (no figures)
    
    - excellent brakes, ABS included. At sharp/medium corners you can even
      get the rear axle into gentle oversteer.
     
    - steering and suspension feeling is different too : car feels heavier
      than early version. I don't know the difference in weight.
    
    Overall the impression is of a quiet yet powerful and fast saloon, 
    much improved in terms of quality and smoothness.

    
    I've scrounged the full press pack for the 21 Quadra Turbo. Lots
    of useful data for a change - shame the dealers don't have the 
    facts .....
    
    It will be down on performance, as output is same as 2wd. 
    
    Looks unattractive after the tax man gets his claws in over #19250.
    Will probably stick to straight 21 Turbo with a chip.
    
    (Am booked for a go in the Calibra out of curiosity - very cheap
    for the appearance (#17k) --- but it's still basically a rep's car!)

    Any chance of a photocopy of the blurb, Ian. Send to mailstop RDL-1/G
    if you feel so inclined.........
    
    Thanks.

    I checked with Theale Motor Works and the Family pack and the 4WD
    option are mutually exclusive........8^(
    
    .... and there are no plans to put the 12 valve engine into the
    Savanna...........8^(

    Hi folks
    	Can anyone help I have a problem with my Renault 21 1.7. The
    problem with the acceleration ie. the car wants to die when cold and
    even if when it has warmed up enough not to use the choke, it is
    still hesitant until about 3500 revs then it clear up and accelarates
    fine. Also there is some pinking at the high end acceleration ie if you
    are accelration from 60-80.. then you hear it. Also after this type of
    driving the car very occasionally runs on after switching off. These
    problems are not consistantly there ie some days the car runs fine and
    others it a F***en son of a b**ch. So can anyone help.By the way a have
    replaced the spark plugs and air filter which helped slightly. I was
    going to get the car electronicly tuned and the carb checked out. But
    can anyone tell me the problem any other solutions before I resort to
    a garage.
    
    thanks 
    
    Kevin

    Its a bit late but I also had these type of problems with my 21 1.7 quite
    recently, I also had to keep the choke out for long periods etc, If you
    look at the top of the air filter box there should be a small sticker
    with a diagram on it, The sticker is pointed at one end pointing to a
    hole in the top of the Air filter box, If you put a small long flat
    head screwdriver down this hole it will adjust the carb causing it to
    tick over + or - , This helped 100%, all these problems have gone now.
    Hope this might help anyone with similar problems.
    
                                        Steve.

    Any comments re the overall safety of the Savannah? Are they making
    them with real metal panels yet instead of that fibreglass type
    material. 
    
    Renault's reluctance to put head restraints on the 2nd and 3rd row of
    seats is another niggle. "You wouldn't be able to fold the seats down
    then" is the salesman's comment, totally ignoring the possibility of
    removable head restraints.
    
    A colleague of mine took a massive rear end collision recently in his
    (non Renault) leasemobile. It set me thinking. Imagine the neck whiplash in
    the 2nd and 3rd row. And who's going to be sitting there, not mum or
    dad!
    
    I'm seriously looking at the new Mitsubishi Space Wagon for my tribe of
    6 heads. Compare the two brochures from the safety angle. Renault tell
    you about ABS, Mitsubishi tell you about strengthening bars in the
    doors, crumple zones, petrol leak prevention.
    
    Who can persuade me for the Savannah? 
    Nick 

    For my money ABS isn't a "safety factor" it's a "driver and other
    cock-up mamagement tool".......but it does transform the braking of the
    Savanna from very unbalanced (without) to very balanced and progressive
    without wheel lock up tendency even without the ABS activating but I
    put that down to the fact that it's got discs all round rather than the
    usual savanna disc/drum combination.
    
    I don't think that either of the two Savannas that I have had have
    non-metal panels: aren't you confusing it with the Espace?
    
    I agree that head restraints would be nice on all seats.
    
    I didn't go for a Space thingy as it's a bit too underpowered for a
    family of 6 plus luggage. Come to think of it, luggage space wasn't too
    hot, either.

    
    Anyone knows specs for 21 turbo? I test drove that car couple of years
    ago and I remember it was a hot performer. 
    
    I think that model exists no more on product-line.
    
    
    
    Hannu

  From memory the spec of the 21 Turbo is


	2L 4 Cyl Turbocharged engine producing 175 bhp.

	0-6 7.2 ish seconds, top speed 140 mph.

        A.B.S, power steering, electric sunroof, electric windows,
	leather seats, alloy wheels and trip computer all standard.


	Cost 19,250 pounds sterling for two wheel ( front ) drive variant or
	21,550 for the quadra ( four wheel drive )


  Renault very kindly let me test drive one of these ( non quadra )for a whole 
weekend last year, it was a lovely car to drive with thrilling performance and
superb roadholding/handling but for a 20000 pound car had very suspect build
quality, plenty of cheap plastic and extremely thin leather on the seats.

 I wouldnt say no if someone offered me one for christmas !.


	Barrie.

    
    	re -1:
    
    	175 hp! Yes, I remember it felt quite fast and also handling was
    	great. Have you tried Clio 16 V?
    
    
    	Hannu

>>    	175 hp! Yes, I remember it felt quite fast and also handling was
    
    I recall reading comments about the front-wheel drive model as :-
    
    	It is possible to pull out, overtake a car and then pull
    	back into lane - all without moving the steering wheel !
    
    This was due to the extreme effect of torque steer on this model...
    
    J.R.

    
    I read EXACTLY the same quote about the original RS Turbo. :^)
    
    Mark

I think that quote is definitely attributable to the Escort RS-Turbo.

The handling of the 21 has been reviewed with comparison to the Sapphire
Cosworth. It came out pretty equal, better in parts, worse in others, but
no torque steer.

Mark.

    
    Was the comparison of the 21 Turbo to the Cosworth talking about the
    4WD versions?
    
    I can't imagine that ANY car with 175 BHP through the front wheels is
    going to be free of torque steer.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Anyone fancy putting 280 BHP through the front wheels of a Cavalier?
    :^)
    
    

    
    re -1:
    
    I drove the 2-wheel drive, and I think it had no remarkable torgue
    steer. Of course 4WD is different, but 2WD was not bad at all.
    
    
    Hannu

    
    Maybe not REMARKABLE, but greater (obviously) than a RWD car (which,
    presumably, would have had none!).
    
    Mark

 The reviews that i've read about the 2wd 21 Turbo were all singing the praises
of the car with no mention of torque steer being any worse than it is in any
powerful front drive car.

  I certainly cant remember it being any worse than the torque steer I get in my 
5 GT Turbo ( which is hardly any ).

 Barrie.

>>I think that quote is definitely attributable to the Escort RS-Turbo.
    
    I know similar quotes (perhaps the same one) were made of the
    original Turbo.  This was due to the torque steer being further
    affected by the viscous-coupling form of limited-slip diff.
    
    
    In this case, I would actually believe my memory (which is often
    wrong in many other cases).
    
    The comment was made as an introductory bit of text on the write-up
    of the 4WD model when road tested by CAR magazine.  This point was
    made to highlight how the all-wheel-drive setup is of noticeable
    benefit in the manners of this car.
    
    
    As for comparison with Cossie models, I [dimly] recall comments that
    the FWD 21 Turbo had all the power, but none of the composure.
    In that from, it was no comparison for the Ford.
    
    J.R.

    Err, I can confirm the Escort RS Turbo's ability to pull out, overtake,
    and pull back into the same lane without moving the steering wheel. The 
    LSD certainly does make itself felt, especially where puddles are 
    involved ! When I had 175bhp with standard suspension, the car would
    actually pull over to the right seemingly wanting to overtake all by
    itself... then when you eased off a bit it would pull neatly back in to 
    the left. Some fool must have programmed some PROLOG artificial 
    intelligence into the EMU :-)
    
    These tendencies were however radically reduced with Koni adjustable
    dampers and BBR springs even with, ahem, 197bhp. The LSD now though has
    become rather inaffective, on anything but dry grippy surfaces.
    
    Gary. (sorry about the rathole, but they did both have 175bhp :-)

    If Jeff Goodenough is still around ... 
    
    How did your R21 last after two years -- much fallen off?
    
    Mike

    Summoned back after a long absence from this file ...
    
    It's still going well.  Have managed to get through a few tyres (mostly
    accidental damage).  Nothing fell off, apart from a piece of trim badly
    attached by repairers after damage to a door.  Plastic (?) oil drip
    tray under engine caught on something and slightly damaged.
    
    Currently strange noise from left front axle (or wheel) on occasions,
    and different clunky-whiny noise from auto transmission when reapplying
    power after slowing (for cornering etc.).  Plan to get both looked at
    at 36,000 mile service in 1000 miles time.
    
    No oil used in between services, unlike the BX 19 GTi which I was
    forever topping up.
    
    Needed a new rheostat (?) for auto transmission.
    
    Original exhaust still OK.
    
    Jeff.

    Any 21 Turbo owners out there.....?
    
    Any advice on what to watch out for ...?  ie Turbo going at 50.000
    etc..!!   EMU problems   etc..!!
    
    
    Stav.
    
    

    Keith.
    
         The Insurance was group 14......  it was about 560 fully comp..!!
    which was not bad for a 175bhp suicide machine...!!
    
    
    Steve

    Scary...!!!!
    
    
    Ive went through 6 pairs of underpants so far   *:@)
    
    Its a nice car, Great inside with all the toys (Lecky windows,sun roof
    etc) But I must admit I sometimes get carried away with the Black
    Leather seats ...ooohh eeerrr
    
    
    steve.

    Ive had 2 Renault 21's and Each one the Clutch Pedal rubber 
    has fallen off and Keeps falling off, Anyone else had this problem
    as I think its quite a common problem as I seen a few in the Garages
    with no pedal rubber.....mmmmm
    
    
    Steve

 ..all my pedal covers are off...


 Rob

Im thinking about buying a second hand Renault 21 Turbo.

I will have about �3000 to spend. For that kind of money I will be looking at a
car with quite a high mileage ( probably >= 80000, probably F reg ). Looking
through the Auto Trader and the Reading Freeads Ive seem three or four cars in
this price reange in the last couple of weeks so I know that they're out there.

Have any you had any experience of high mileage 21 Turbos ?

What should I look out for when looking at a 21 Turbo of this vintage ? Im
quite mechanically minded and am lucky enough to have a fully equiped workshop
at my disposal, along with expert advice so Im not adverse to buying a car
which needs some work but I dont want to end up with something thats going to 
end up costing me another two or three thousand pounds in the next couple of
years.

Barrie.

    Do you mean a turbo diesel?

No, I meant the 2L Petrol engined Turbo. (2wd not the quadra)

 Sorry for any confusion.

	Barrie.

    What I'd look for:
    
    Full service history
    
    Check the bodywork - they weren't always good at getting a consistently
    thick coat of paint on, especially on the edges of things like doors,
    bonnet and boot lid.
    
    Strange noises from the turbo - they need a modest amount of TLC,
    meaning you shouldn't start them and floor the pedal before the oil's
    had a chance to get round, nor should you stop after a long run and
    immediately switch off without letting the oil sort itself out for 30
    secs.  Either will risk damage to the bearings which normally run at
    around 100,000 rpm.

I have an idle speed problem with my 21 TXI.

The engine seems to return to the idle speed very slowly.  I have cleaned the idle
valve and checked the gasket.


Ithink there must be an intermittet air leak some where.


Anty ideas on where is the most likely place to look,

Steve

    I'd suspect the engine management unit (or whatever it's called).  They
    can have some funnies and need a knowledgeable, minimal bullsh*t type
    mechanic to advise.
    
    A friend had long term problems with a 21 that caused all sorts of
    attempts at a fix.  Then she found a garage with the right knowledeg
    and it was fixed very quickly.  The final fix was <�50, but the
    intervening attempts had accumulated over �300 worth of expense.

    
    re 93.


    You don't have to worry about the engine too much as long as its been 
    serviced properly as the synthetic oil protects the engine, its just
    the Turbo Unit you need to worry about, find out if its still the
    original Unit as this could set you back a few quid, Make sure that
    there is no Oil in the cooling system as the synthetic oil eats its
    way through hose's as I found out when the head was taken off to 
    drill out a broken manifold stud, The 21 Turbo is a comfortable fast
    car, it is a group 14 insurance, My servicing cost about �77 but the
    oil costs about �25 for 5 ltrs  ..... Buy one..!!!  Make sure its got 
    leather seats..


    Steve   *:@)

                                                

Thanks for the replies to my question in .93.

 Steve, do you still have yours ? What mileage does it have now. 

 I test drove a new one in 1990 when I was considering getting one on the
company scheme and loved it. I ended up having a second R5 GT Turbo as it was
much cheaper and I needed all the money I could get for moving house.

 The one that renault lent me in 1990 was loaded with goodies:

 ABS
 Electric mirrors
 Electric windows/sunroof
 Steering column mounted radio controls
 Computer
 Leather
 Alloy Wheels

 All that came as standard on top of 175 BHP, thrilling performance and
excellent handling.

 I believe that the car I had was a phase 2 21. Did the phase 1 lineup include
the Turbo ? If so did it come with the same kit.

 Ive got plenty of time to do this as the lease on my company car does not
expire until January next year. Ill probably buy a car around october time then
spend some time making sure its perfect before I need it in January. Im
currently in information gathering mode, any info that might be useful would be
appreciated.

 Thanks 

	Barrie.

Some things that I forgot to ask in -1

  I have never experienced a oldish second hand car with any of the gadgets
that came as standard on the 21 Turbo. How likely is it that they will still
be working ? Are they expensive to put right ?

 What size tyres does the 21 Turbo use. I suspect that the life expectancy of 
front tyres on this car is quite short, how much do they cost to replace ( for 
a "named" brand i.e. Michelin )

	Barrie.

    I don't have mine anymore but I bought mine with 51,000 on the clock 
    and it drove like new, mine was a 1989 F plate, All the toys worked
    OK ie ABS,Electric windows,computer etc. if I remember right the tyre
    sizes were 195/55/14, The only draw back was that it was not 4 wheel 
    drive as I felt that 175bhp was a lot of power to go through the front
    wheels, the phase 2 as you mentioned was the Quadra which had 4 wheel
    drive. As for the life of the tyres it depends if you drive like a 
    homicidal axe wielding maniac or the Village Vicar    *:@)
    
    Steve

Does anyone know anywhere that sells Renault21 spares cheaper tha a 
Renault main dealer.

I am looking for a Renault21 TXTI (1990) front nearside ABS wheel sensor.

 Those nice people at Renault want over 100 quit for it.


   Steve