Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    This is a really old note, but I'll bring it back to life...
    
    Has anyone ever used an electric paint sprayer? I intend to rub
    down and repaint the alloy wheels on the Marcos in the coming months
    and consider that the cost (and varying colours) of spray cans is
    not the ideal solution. I know that most people use compressed air
    sprayers working off a compressor (run on what?.Electricity?), but
    I have recently seen an electric paint sprayer (at the seemingly
    giveaway price of �30) which would seem to be a better idea than
    the cans, but without the high price of a compressor and the like.
    
    Anybody got any experience of these or any genuine reasons that
    you can think of against it (other than it seems too cheap!)?
    
    Mark

I've used an electric sprayer (Burgess) many years ago on my Father's Rover 
100, so that dates it a bit.

They are reasonable and you'll get a better and chaeper finish than with 
aerosols.  The finish is quite orange peel but you can improve on that with 
1200 wet and dry followed by T-cut and polish.  You need to put a lot of paint 
on and not remove it all with the polishing.  I believe Rolls Royce used this 
sort of approach.

Compressed air spraying is relatively easy and you can hire the bits.  the 
compressors are either electric or petrol and you need around 10 cubic feet per 
minute.  I've never managed to get a really good quality finish without 
polishing afterwards - the paint shops seem not to need to do this yet can get 
a mirror like shine.

You'll need a warm workshop.  Fans are not a good idea as they stir up too 
much dust.  Try a (hired) gas radiant heater or similar.  You can try wetting 
the workshop floor but it will probably evaporate before you're finished!

A word of warning.  Paint is toxic and the spray gets everywhere.  Wear a 
mask.  It is very persuasive to see how much paint ends up in the mask filter. 
Do not try spraying acrylic or two pack paints - they give off cyanide 
gasses and you need breathing apparatus.  You can get different types of 
celulose thiners with different rates of evaporation and anti-bloom 
characteristics (bloom is where the paint goes dull greyish due to moisture in 
the atmosphere).

As it happens, I have recently bought an electric 15cfm compressor and
(cheap) spray gun so I'll be practicing.  I bought it mainly for air tools.

Incidentally, the manufacturers seem not to be using air any more - they use 
airless means, possibly piezoelectric nozzles, to atomise the paint.

Good luck.  I'll be interested to learn any tips you pick up.

Cheers,

Mike.

    I resprayed the front of my Volvo 1800S about 5 years ago with a
    500w electric spray gun. The results were actually quite reasonable,
    considering I sprayed outside, and in a not very clean atmosphere.
    I did have quite a lot of runs though, as the electric gun tended
    to put on more paint than I wanted.
    
    I would say that the safest bet is to rent the equipment - compressor
    and all. If I remember correctly, the Halfords in the outskirts
    of Basingstoke rents this stuff.
    
    It really all boils down to technique though (I had the Volvo resprayed
    2 years later...)
    
    Paul
                     

    What about this new brush-on stuff, apparently it is really good, as it
    has something in the paint that lets the brush marks run into each
    other. I thought it was a con at first, but in the summer at a VW
    rally, I saw a Beetle which the owner had done in this paint, It was a
    weekold paint job, which had just been washed and waxed, nothing else,
    There were no brush marks, until you got up to 3 or 4 inches away!,
    then they were only V.small. Bearing in mind he had neither t-cut, or
    wet and dry-d the paint yet it was exellent.
    Apparently the cost, including 2 quality brush's, paint, thinners etc,
    was �30.
    
    Carl.
    
    private car which the owner had

    
    Re .24
    
    This sounds interesting. Does anyone know anymore?
    
    Re Electric Sprayers.
    
    I was in the Basingstoke Les Smith's today and they had 4 or 5
    different electric sprayers (none the same as the one I'd seen before).
    So there are obviously a fair selection of these things on the market.
    
    I may well invest in one anyway. You never know when a paint sprayer
    might come in handy.
    
    Mark

    RE-1, where are you located, as that node sounds familiar, I am in the
    Crescent B'stoke, ground floor, block A.
    I have the garb for the brush on stuff at home somewhere, I will see if
    I can find it tonight, as I think I have a colour chart for it
    aswell (somewhere).
    
    RE- Electric paint sprayers, warning, I tried one 2 years ago on my
    Honda N600, The quantity ejected from these things make them almost
    impossible to handle, paint went everywhere too fast, and too thick,
    spent hours taking the stuff off again!
    
    Carl. (7781-4268)

    Isn't the brush on stuff called CARPAINT or some such.
    For wheels I would imagine it would be just the job.

    Also, isn't "coach paint" the same sort of thing ...    

    Mark

With good electric sprayers, you can adjust the quantity emitted.  It's also 
important to get the viscosity right - you can buy viscosity cups cheaply and 
follow the paint manufacturers recommendations.  Avoiding runs is a matter of 
practice, moving the gun at the right speed and starting and stopping spraying 
while the gun is moving, not at the end of a stroke.  Temperature also helps 
as the thinners flash off faster.

Mike.

	The sprayer I used for my restoration work was an 'Apollo'
	which is an air sprayer that doesn't use a reservoir, just
	pumps the air up and uses it. The results are just like a
	compressor based air system but you do need to use more
	thinners than normal.

	It's still gathering dust at home somewhere. Could lend/hire/sell
	I suppose.

	-John

    
    Since it looks like I may be in for an enforced 'holiday' in a week's
    time, I'm thinking of tackling the paint on my Landy. (Derek wants it
    done in the team colours!, and anyway its present colours are so
    distinctive that the old owner doesn't want to be accused of being
    where he wasn't!)
    
    It is currently household outdoor gloss painted over the original military 
    green. I used Nitromors to get the colour off the inside seating box,
    and that was hard work - the gloss came off without too much trouble,
    but the military green stayed in very stubborn patches. Has anyone any
    better ideas for preparing it for repainting?
    
    I will probably brush paint it - the local car parts shop suggested
    using outdoor dulux, mixed with clear varnish. Comments anyone? Should
    I try spraying it?
    
    This work will have to be done outside as there is something else in
    the garage! (Not that the Landy will fit in anyway)
                                             

For any bits of old Army paint that won't budge, the only answer is to rub it
down with a sander or by hand until you've got a smooth, flatted surce for
painting. If you've got bare alloy then use an etching primer first, otherwise
the paint will vanish rapidly in large flakes the first time the panel flexes.

I wouldn't go anywhere near Dulux, Crown or the like. In spite of what the
manufacturers say, all these gloss paints fade/degrade quickly when exposed to
sunlight (why else do you have to paint the outside of the house every few 
years!). The other problem is that most of these companies change their colour
card every year, so when you want to touch up that scratch in 12 months time
you end up having to repaint the vehicle.

I'd go for International Yacht Enamel (or if you're really flash - use their 707
2-part epoxy paint). These paints are especially formulated for harsh outdoor
environments (try ocean racing for a good test), use much more pigment than the
likes of Dulux, and only change their colour card every 15 years or so. Any 
boatyard stocks their range, from self etch alloy primers, to undercoats and 
enamel topcoats, plus all the various bits in between.

I painted my narrowboat with International Enamels 10 years ago, and it's still 
looking pretty good today. I used an ally faced ply on the superstructure sides,
so painting this is not much different to the Landy.

The order of painting was

1 coat self etch alloy primer
2 coats alloy primer
2 coats undercoat
2 coats yacht enamel

Dick

    What about using coach paint. Not exactly sure what this is, but
    I was told that it is THE thing to use (or was a few years ago).
    It is long lasting and leaves no brush marks. It is advisable to
    paint in a warm environment, but would also suggest it is well
    ventilated ...

    The only problem you might have is painting it on over the old
    paint is will it stick and not pull off the paint underneath ???
    This I don't know either ...

    When I had the MG bare-metal resprayed, the chap got the old paint
    off using brake fluid. I would have thought you would be rather
    well placed to get hold of some of this :-)

 Mark

    Of course, if you fance BR Blue, I could let you have some of the stuff
    the paint their locomotives with. (Yes, they brush it on!)
    
    JK

how about smooth Hammerite ?

    Coach paint and CARPAINT is very similar.
    
    The idea is that it runs together to disguise the brush marks.
    
    Carl of the VW fame used some on his car and wasn't awfully impressed
    originally, but maybe some T-cutting has revised his opinion? I have
    a copy (care of Carl) of a very positive article about this stuff.
    
    It certainly seems cheap enough.
    
    Mark

    
    Yes, we've got plenty of brake fluid! - but my brother suggested _not_
    using it as a paint remover, because it leaves an oily film on the
    metal. - I suppose I could then scrub it down with Jizer.......
    
    Derek, how do you fancy BR Blue for team colours? :-)  Thay don't have
    any Farrari Red paint, do they John?
    
    I was thinking of using the Smooth Hammerite for the inside, - but I
    don't think they do many colours, do they, I've only seen black and
    white.

You should never use an electric sander (attachment) on Landrovers. Apparently 
it will go through the alluminium if you are not carefull.

Simon

    
    Smoothrite is available in a large range of colours (Reds, Blues,
    Greens, Yellow (I think. You just have to go to a shop which sells 
    a decent range of the paints. 
    
    Some Les Smith's seem to carry a good selection, or failing that
    contact the makers for a colour chart and order direct from them.
    
    Mark

	Well I suppose a Landrover is just about the only vehicle
	where you could get away with hand painting.

	I would go along with Dick's suggestion to use yatch type
	paints since these are undoubtedly better than car stuff (at
	a price mind you).

	Any paint that withstands a proper dosing of paint stripper
	is probably so well stuck as to not justify and further effort
	in it's removal so just leave it, or are you trying for the
	concours d'elegance.

	Personally I would not recommend any form of hammerite for any 
	purpose whatsoever.

	-John
	

    
    re 40, What have you got against Hammerite?

I have used Hammerite on chassis and suspension components and have nothing
but praise for it.  However, I did go through all the right preparation
stages and put it on CLEAN and RUST-FREE (mostly) areas.   Looked good,
and protected the components perfectly.  Even stopped the inner wheel arches
on the E from rotting.

Brian

Has anyone any suggestions for techniques for stone chips, using those little
touchup cans with the integral brush. The one time I tried this it looked
pretty awful. Should you use a different brush ?


Julian

    
    Could anyone provide a detailed, objective perspective on mediums that
    may be used in vehicle re-spraying?
    
    eg. Twin-Pak (sp?): what *exactly* is it (one person told me it hardens
        soley by chemical reaction and not air-contact, another said it
        must be oven-baked)?; I've been told that it would be perfectly OK to
        spray Twin-Pak over the current cellulose paint, which I find hard
        to believe (if it does finally adhere, wouldn't the 'moving'
        particles in the cellulose cause premature cracking?); what's the 
        best primer that can be used with it and what is the optimum number
        of layers (of primer and non-metallic colour) that should be put on?
    
        I saw a Cobra recently that had a bare-metal respray, but had
        a couple of coats of a filler spray used before the primer.  It
        produced an incredibly smooth final finish, but is it really
        wise to coat the whole bodyshell in this filler?
    
        And final question - anyone know a good bodyshop, preferably
        specialising in classics, near Reading (Berkshire, Oxfordshire etc 
        area - willing to travel miles for excellent work).
    
    
        Deborah.