Conference rdvax::grateful

    re: did we do this to Jerry......
    
    no...
    others have always said that Jerry could not be told what to do...he
    was the master of his own destiny, the Capt. of his own ship. 
    He himself said he was an addictive person, that he had to watch his
    intake of anything because it eventually would take him over. 
    
    ANd this Secret life shit...hell anyone involved in the scene
    *KNEW* what was goin on with all the boyz...the rumors and facts came
    from everywhere...fans, roadies, band members, hell even band members
    kids knew Jerry had a problem...Micky's kid told an aquantance of ours
    kids backstage at Vegas that Jerry "was too fat and on hard drugs,
    that's why the dead weren't as good as they were" honest, true story.
    
    another book to sell.....
    
    I may not even read the RS, 
    
    rfb
    

	haven't read the article - did we do this to him?  what's -this-?
	his death?  his drug use?

	if it's his drug use:
	like rfb said, noone could tell Jerry what to do.
	also, he was an addictive personality, so he tended to do
	things to extremes.  One of those things was playing music.
	He was a music junkie - and wouldn't have been the player
	he was otherwise (imho)...

	if its his death:
	I often think about this very question - did =we= do it to him?

	ya know, after that awful last tour where all kinds of disasters
	seemed to follow it - manmade and acts of nature - it almost
	seemed like some sort of Greek epic where you just -knew-
	the ending would be tragic...

	it seems to me, with hindsight, that Jerry could just see this
	wonderful life experiment rolling out of control, getting too
	big too fast, and not being able to organically educate the
	newcomers because of the vast numbers...and with the huge
	organization/family depending on the circus going on and going
	on -big-, there almost was no other way out for him.  

	I think his heart was broken, literally.

	Debess

	ps - I don't think that the band members weren't part of the
	story because it was too painful - I think they figured it's
	private.

did we do this to him???

in part, i think yes...


as he himself said, he was put on a pedestal and a
"Jerry Myth" evolved around him with very little input
on his own...  it was out of control and it had a porfound
impact on his ability to lead anything close to a normal
life...

are we responsible for that???  no i don't think so...
it's part of the price you pay to lead the life,and have
the experiences that he had...

did we kill him?  no... he died...  it happens and that's that...
ou hearts may be broken but according to people close
to him, he was happy and doing his thing when his time
came...  he went out with a smile on...  :^)  let us remember
that...  let's be careful that we don't dump stuff on him
now that he's dead, the way we did it to him while he was
alive...

			da ve

    hey da ve ...make up yer mind! %^)

i have no mind...  therefore i must always "make it up"
everytime i spout...  :^)  that's why it's different every time...

			da ve

    well , at least ya do a grate job! %^)
    

>let's be careful that we don't dump stuff on him
>now that he's dead, the way we did it to him while he was
>alive...


	I don't know what you mean here da ve?  are you
	talking about what I said (cause your reply followed
	mine, so that's why I'm asking)?

	okay I admit it - I think he was "a f*cking prophet" -
	he was humble about it too - he lived his life true
	to himself, turning the "you must do things -this-
	way" business methods into "noooo, I think I'll try 
	-this- here approach, and support all my counterculture
	friends" and he(they) was successful, and he was
	revolutionary because he stayed true to his ideals.

	about his personal life - that's what I felt about it -
	personal.  but his public personna - ahhh, -that- I
	truly will always admire.

	Debess

>                         -< August 8th Rolling Stone >-


	oh, and probably no coincidence the date this will hit the
	newsstands - how very thoughtful of RS.

    ...man, I hope you all don't think me crass fer starting this
    here note....mac realizes that these articles ALWAYS pop up
    after an icon has passed-on (i.e. John Lennon's death, and the Goldman
    book...at least I think that was the dude's name..)
    
    only wanted to keep the file informed on this here latest
    article on Jerry....nothin' more, nothin' less.....
    
    groove-on
    
    macky

    hey Wacky....
    
    you're one of the good guys....don't worry....we couldn't think any
    less of you than we do already! %^)
    
    rfb

    ....Cool!  Now I really feel at home!
    
    The wifey sez da same thing ta me all da time!!!
    
    more_or_less_wacky

Mac, you didn't write the article...Goldman is the correct name, idiot that he
was, not so humbly said

Wes_who_thinx_it's_been_kinda_sad_in_here_today_except_the_bit_about_bustin_
the_Yankees_and_who_thinx_he_needs_loud_music_and_Cold_Beer

    
    >okay I admit it - I think he was "a f*cking prophet" -
    
    Me too.  :-)
    
    >Did we cause Jerry's death
    
    No, we kept him alive once in 86, again in 92...We still are in a way.

    
>    No, we kept him alive once in 86, again in 92...We still are in a way.

	I love what you just said Deane - it brought tears to my eyes

    yes...very good!
    
    rfb

ditto that...  :^)

and yes, Debess... i was kinda referring to what you were saying 
about his heart being broken...all i'm thinking of is that we, as in
humans collectively, often will assign feelings, situations, attributes etc 
to people and things that just aren't there... typically it's a case of
us feelign very close to someone or something and believing in
our hearts that something is true, or one particular way...  we all 
affect each other in different ways...  

kinda like when i'd sit with someone who would look at a cat staring out 
a window and they'd say "oh, look at the kitty it's so sad...."  when in
reality the cats probably thinking (if anything) "gee, if that bird would 
come just a little closer to the window, i'll be eating well tonight!!!!"  :^)

like i was saying...  our hearts may have broken, but that doesn't mean
his was...  he died a happy hippy man...  :^)  i may miss his impact on 
my life, but now that it's a year later, i would like to celebrate him as 
one who lived as he chose, doing the best he could, and who made many
people happy...

once in a while you get shone the light, in the strangest of places if you
look at it right...  i'm glad we saw the light...  i'm not ready to make him
a prophet though... :^)  at least not in the classical sense...  :^) :^) 
he had some brilliant things to share, but he was also the epitome of
a "strange place"... :^)

			da ve

    
         Has a year already gone by since Jerry's passing??? You
    coulda' fooled me....He's alive and well inside my heart and soul
    and as long as I'm alive, so is He. He may be physically gone but
    spiritually, He's There...in each one of us and there's nothing we
    can do about it...God I miss Him....
    
    Allenhead
    
    

    "I don't know how to tell you this, but the guy's not dead".
                                                     Bob Weir

This note got a synapse firing over the weekend...finally
figured it out:

	He was a man, take him for all in all,
	I shall not look upon his like again.

Dan

    hear hear

    amen

    I've only skimmed the article, but it's already re-opened one old
    wound.  Brent's death was the beginning of the end of my fascination
    with the Dead.  I still liked them and caught a few more shows, but, for
    me, the scene took on a real dark tone after that.  It just wasn't fun
    anymore.
    
    Through some of the Dead's low points in the mid-80s, Brent was the one
    who always showed up to play.  I wasn't a fan of all his material, but
    it took balls to play a lullaby for your daughter in front of 90,000
    disinterested fans.
    
    I thought the band and the fans were very cavalier about his death. 
    For most folks, their first reaction was "who'll replace him?"  For me,
    it exposed an ugly underside of life in the Grateful Dead and it just
    wasn't the same after.
    
    Jamie

�    Hafta wonder if all the quotes are accurate, BUT if so, one question
�    begs to be answered:  did we collectively do this to Jerry?
    
    Jerry was quoted on camera (in the Time-Life R&R, v6)
       "Man, nobody wants to be in the spotlight...  well, maybe for
        your music, but not in your life."
    
    You make the call.
    
    /bruce

    saw him say that last nite on TLC's History of RnR...some grate stuff
    there, lot's of the boyz and esp. Micky and Jerry talking. 
    
    the look on Jerry's face at The Isle of Wright when the crowd was
    shouting him down....
    
    rfb

    "Being in the Grateful Dead is in no way a privilege."
    
    							J. Garcia

    I saw a clip on CNBC this weekend, with the guy who wrote
    "Dark Star; Oral History of JG."  (Is that where the RS stuff is
    from?).
    
    Anyway, I got the feeling that he was not putting JG down;  he said 
    that JG was a real artist, and somehow took his darkness and turned
    it to light; that he was able to express a lot of joy.  As per CNBC,
    the interviewer didn't seem to have a clue.
    
    /b

              <<< Note 534.26 by JARETH::LARU "au contraire..." >>>
                                 -< Dark Star >-

Ya,  I think the guy wrote/quoted the complete story in his book and RS 
chose a few dark spots for his later years to put in the magazine...
...gotta sell the rag....

bob

I noticed that the latest RS ran an interview with Hart and Hunter in the 
latest issue that put a much more positive spin on the Dead community.  
It also revealed (well, at least new to me) that Mickey had had a heroin 
addition at one time.  Jees, with Jerry and Brent that made three in the 
band with addictions.

    wow
    never thought mickey was that heavy into the drugs gig myself either
    
    goes to show you don't ever know

    face it...they all dabbled....in everything....

�    face it...they all dabbled....in everything....

    Don't "face it;"    Be thankful for it,  appreciate it!
    
    Artists are basically outlaws...  
    
    they say things that can't be said and do things that can't be done...
    they push the limits, expand the envelope for all of us.
    it's risky on the edge, but the choice is always whether 
    to rust or burn.
    
    Jerry wouldn't have been the musician he was without his willingness
    to experiment with *all* the dimensions of his life.  And, even though
    many people in here call him a junkie, and speak of his "sins,"
    the truth is that he led a very full, createive, productive life,  
    gave much more than he took, and maintained his integrity his entire life.
    
    /bruce

    don't get  me wrong...i'm *more* than thankful! and yer note says what
    mine was supposed to....those that were appalled by the actions of the
    boyz shouldn't be, and those of us that knew...simply knew....
    
    
    BTW, did i thank U for that calendar?? %^)
    
    rfb_after a rough weekend

I doubt if I will ever be thankful that Jerry developed a heroin habit.

Jim

    Just give thanks to and for Jerry Garcia...
    
    /b