Conference mr1pst::music

    When's the last time a pop singer with a political point of view
    actually changed your mind rather than merely reflected and 
    reinforced what you already believed?

    Although I favor the former, I see the latter.

    Of course, it won't stop me from happily humming along with
    tunes whose lyrics I can really get behind.  But I doubt that
    they have much of an impact on anyone else.  John Wayne singing
    "The Ballad of the Green Beret" in high school did not enthuse
    me, but Phil Ochs singing "I Won't Go To War No More" did.
    Was Phil that much more persuasive?  [Well, yeah, but you get
    my point...  :-)  ]

    I hope I'm wrong, really, and I suspect children are more easily
    influenced.  But I don't believe either in protecting children
    or anyone else from alternative points of view, Mrs. Al Gore
    notwithstanding.  but that's off the subject.


    Tom

    Re: .1
    
    Ya know, one thing I think is funny is that when people talk about
    "political" singers and songwriters, it appears most of them are on the
    left side of things.  The recent movie "Bob Roberts" featured a
    folk-singer type running for president, but all of his songs were
    right-wing, like "This Land Is MY Land", etc.
    
    Think about it for awhile.
    
    						Brian

    
    Re: -.1
    
    	Thought about it for a while.
    
    	You're right - most political singers and songwriters tend to be
    left-wingers.  The only exceptions I could think of are a few C & W
    stars.  There do seem to be more actors - Charleton Heston and Arnie
    Schwartzenwhatever come to mind.  And I can't think of any
    painter/sculptors/dancers who are right-wing - except a few political
    cartoonists ( but cartoons aren't really art, anyways :-))
    	It seems that most creative people tend to be more liberal.  That
    may be going out on a limb, and it sure looks like we're going down
    another rat-hole - but what the heck.
    
    						-Jimbo
    
    ps - I'm an aspiring cartoonist :-)

What about that orange juice lady... wasn't she on the right?

ccb

    In the other notes which spawned this discussion ("Sting" and 
    "Sting sucks"), I worry that I might have come across as saying
    that I myself am above allowing an artists personality to affect
    my appreciation of their music.
    
    Actually, I probably said that more or less directly.
    
    Being one who always tries to turn the examining light I apply to
    others on myself as well, I was able to think of an artist whose
    political/social statements I find so arrogant that I can not 
    honestly tell you they could not have affected my appreciation
    of HER (you can probably guess who it is already ;-) music.
    
    I find nearly everything I see, read or hear about Sinnead O'Connor
    arrogant, misdirected and sophomoric.  She strikes me almost as a
    parody of the "activist rock star" than a serious advocate of any
    cause.
    
    I really think I just don't like her music (although, she does have a
    beautiful voice) but I can't completely convince myself of that.
    
    Note however, that I stop well short of saying she is not talented
    or that she "sucks".  I just know that I don't like her and probably
    won't give her music a fair listen.

    
    ref. .3
    
    And then there are these "I changed my mind" types, like Jane Fonda.
    
    Lale
    

    But but but...  The political influence of music isn't limited to explicitly
    political lyric content.  I suspect `We mean it maaaaaaaaaan' would have had
    *u*g*r all effect if done by some folkie dullard.  As it was, it changed the
    whole world overnight.

>    As it was, it changed the whole world overnight.
    
    You mean Maggie Thatcher wouldn't have been elected if it wasn't for
    the Sex Pistols?
    
    Sort of like all those groovy protest songs leading America to Richard
    Nixon....
    
    Ray

>    As it was, it changed the whole world overnight.

I was being facetious, not very well.

    Although I often agree with the viewpoint being expressed, I generally
    avoid "politically correct" music of any kind because it tends to fall
    into the same trap as the rest of popular music; lyrical cliches. If
    the performer has a unique point of view, the rarest of elements in
    popular music, and something new to say on the subject, or even a
    unique way of expressing it, I'm interested, but a lot of these songs
    are well-meaning, but terribly obvious.
    
    'let's all live together in peace' yeah, yeah, I know.
    
    Generally speaking, politics makes lousy art, because it overly 
    simplifies complicated reality. There is some value in speaking to
    ideals as sort of a positive affirmation, but it can get very preachy
    very quick.
    
    -roger
    

> I was being facetious, not very well.
    
    Oops.  The pitch was fine, I was just in a swing-at-anything mood.
    
    Ray

    I know that I will never again listen to anything Sinnead O'(my God, 
    where's my hair)Connor since she went on SNL and tore up a picture of 
    the Pope. In contrast, maybe I'd more willing to listen to the Pope if 
    he were to go on TV and tear up a picture of Sinnead ;^)))))))
    
    /Billy_K

re: .12

>    I know that I will never again listen to anything Sinnead O'(my God, 
>    where's my hair)Connor since she went on SNL and tore up a picture of 
>    the Pope. In contrast, maybe I'd more willing to listen to the Pope if 
>    he were to go on TV and tear up a picture of Sinnead ;^)))))))
    
Jeez, why all this defending of the Pope?  In addition to my hangups
about the whole concept of the Papacy (sideaffect of being a recovering
Catholic), this particular Pope wants to take us back to the days when
women were supposed to be kept barefoot and pregnant.  He seems like a
perfectly reasonable object of protest to me.

I'll go put on my asbestos suit now...

-Hal

    I don't give a damn about internal squabbles within bands, political
    statements, whether they are from Mars or Seattle, whether they are
    intolerable snobs or Mother Theresa', etc. 
    
    I just listen to the music. If I like it I listen and maybe buy a
    CD. If not who cares I turn the station or plug in a tape. I listen
    to just about anything, Alternative on FNX or ZBC, folk on ERS,
    traditional rock on BCN, Classics on ZLX, Jazz, Blues and Classical
    on GBH, etc... Whatever the mood I'm in.
    
    Lifes too short to get on a high horse concerning musicians. Others
    feel differently, fine for them.
    
    Jim C.
     

      What did she actually do on Saturday Night Live?  What was the 
      context to her tearing up the photo?
      
      She must be onto something, the way she brings out such bile. 
      
      The morning after the SNL episode Simon Bates (BBC Radio 1) made 
      an unprecedented open-letter style attack on her, saying `Sinead, 
      I'd just like to say - and I'm only thinking of you here - that 
      you're just an overtired girl who needs a rest - you're not a well 
      bunny - and all of us in the industry think it's time to put your 
      career on hold...'  Sounded like the Godfather!
      
      The Pope, meanwhile, tours Uganda - where most of the population 
      is Catholic and 1 in 8 has HIV - insists that condoms must be 
      eradicated - and hardly rates a mention.  Go figure...
      
      Sam

>      The Pope, meanwhile, tours Uganda - where most of the population 
>      is Catholic and 1 in 8 has HIV - insists that condoms must be 
>      eradicated - and hardly rates a mention.  Go figure...
    
    Well, you know, part of my problem with her is that her actions are
    so counter-productive that I have to conclude she's either insincere
    or just driven only by anger (my own personal theory).
    
    The thing with the Pope's picture is a prime example.
    
    Do you think that engendered any support of her cause from Catholics?
    
    It's hard to imagine that she couldn't have known what the reaction
    would be, and it's also hard to imagine that she couldn't have come
    up with a more effective method of getting people to consider her point.
    
    All her messages seem to be delivered with the primary ingredient of
    her hate and disdain for something.  You don't create peace and harmony
    by starting wars.
    
    I mean, I think that "get help" message someone gave to her could
    and probably was offered with the highest level of sincerity.  I think
    she's overcome with hate.
    
    	db

    
    There's no such thing as bad publicity.
    
    DFW

    re - back a few
    I dunno about Catholics, but she definitely gave me something to think
    about.  I think it took real guts to do what she did, considering the
    ire it was guaranteed to arouse.