Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Smoking in the boys and girls rooms has been a problem since almost day
    one of educations, and it will probably continue for generations to
    come.  No that's not what you wanted to hear, was it?
    
    Discipline might be an answer, but how many of you have had the little
    battery operated smoke detectors scream away in the middle of a smoke
    filled room of party-goers.  If they tried this $19.95 solution it
    might work, who knows?
    
    Practically, I personally think that locking the restrooms smacks of
    something darn close to illegal.  Can your concerns be addressed with
    the superintendant and/or school committee, or PTO?  Maybe there are
    more concerned parents, and probably students out there than you
    realize.
    
    Lyn

    yup, I remember this problem -- in our high school things were so
    bad (I have a sensitivity to cigarette smoke) that I used to have 
    sneak into the staff washrooms. Mind you there were other reasons
    (based on sanitation problems) that convinced me to break the 
    rules as well. 
    
    The smoke detector thing might be considered, only if it is safe from
    dismantling, smashing, etc. Can you remember the destruction that went
    on in high school?! I shiver when I think I spent five years in a 
    place like that....
    
    Monica
    

    Are the kids allowed to *use* the nurse's lav?  And if one toilet for
    an entire high school *isn't* against the law, I think it oughta be...
    
    How about (this isn't thought through at all, but...) having minor-
    offenders, who've racked up a couple of demerits, sit in pairs as
    bathroom monitors (instead of sitting in study hall)?  Their incentive
    to report smokers would be that if a spot check was made by a free-
    floating teacher, and smoking was found to have occurrred, the monitors
    would get a stiffer sentence than the smoker (1 day suspension?).
    
    Leslie

    
    My guess, from the basenote is that the bathrooms are locked and
    students must ask permission and receive a key to use them?  I don't
    have any better solution than this - it seems to work at gas
    stations...
    
    I agree with Monica - I'm 36 and I still have very depressing memories
    of using the restroom facilities in high school.  At that time, smoking
    was the least of all the illegal activities going on in there.
    
    Rochelle

I agree that the bathrooms should not be made unaccessible.  Nor should you
require a student to "snitch" on another student.  I do believe that the PTO,
the staff, and all itnerested parties should be included in the solution to
the problem.  I remember this having been an issue during my high school years
(who doesn't) and since it hasn't been solved yet, I can tell you closing the
bathroom, snitching, etc will not work!  Maybe if you take it to the student 
coucil to see how they would solve the problem....put ownership where it 
belongs.

Just fix it before my kids get to high school!! 8^)
-sandy

    I have a daughter in High School and the smokers put their cigarettes
    out on the seats so nobody would want to sit on them anyways. This poor
    kid will actually hold it all day! I think they should lock the staff
    bathrooms and make them use the same restrooms as the kids. This way
    the kids would never know when a teacher might walk in. If the teachers
    had to use these burned seats too they might be able to come up with
    some better ideas for stopping the smoking in the restrooms.
    
    This year Erin is in a private HS and hasn't mentioned this is a
    problem like it was in public school. I'm sure I can guess the reason.
    
    

    
    
    I have a daughter in high school too, and I like the idea of having 
    teachers use the same restrooms.  I'm not sure it would work, but it
    should scare a few kids ... btw, she does smoke (against my wishes) and
    so do all her friends ... I heard that the highest population of smokers
    now in the country are teenage girls.
    
    I think the main reason they can't sanction an area as 'smoking' is
    because it's illegal for these kids to be smoking anyway.  And I think
    a lot schools don't even allow teachers to smoke on school property now.
    
    
    Kathy

    
    >>teachers use the same restrooms.  I'm not sure it would work, but it
    >>should scare a few kids 
    
    I should think the idea would scare a few teachers too...
    
    Monica

When I went to Ashland H.S., there was a designated area for students who were 
smokers.    Have they done away with this area (which used to be near the 
nurses office, actually in an outside alley or between the doors here.)  I 
think an area should be provided for these smokers, as there was when I was a
student there.  Locking all the bathrooms is not the way to go.  

<    I think the main reason they can't sanction an area as 'smoking' is
<    because it's illegal for these kids to be smoking anyway.  

I grew up in California, so am mostly familiar with the laws there, but
it is my understanding that it is not illegal for a kid to *smoke*, it
is just illegal for someone to sell them cigarettes.

My mother was the Assistant Principal of my high school, and I know she
wouldn't have done anything that was illegal or could be construed as such.  
She was very conscious of such things (and the local police thought
*very* highly of her, as did most of the kids).

      Carol

    
    I would think designating a smoking area would be an excellent way to
    handle the situation.  Of course, the folks who think handing out
    condoms in school promotes sex would probably think having a designated
    smoking area would promote smoking.  However, my feeling is if they're
    going to do it, they don't need "permission".
    
    Anyway, (sorry about the digression), most public areas now have
    "designated smoking areas".  Why not the High Schools?  What do the
    smoking teachers do?  I'm sure they have a place to go have a
    cigarette.
    
    Personally, I'm against smoking anyway.  But, I'm for peoples rights.
    
    						
    						jean

    I will admit, my initial reaction to the smoking area idea is
    less than enthusiastic. My logic: I have always agreed that folks
    who have smoked for some time should have the right to an designated
    smoking area. (Most smokers I know admit that it is a habit that have
    tried to break at least once). 
    Considering high school kids though, aren't these kids who are not so
    much addicted, as who want to fit in? i.e. a social habit rather than
    a physical one.  
    But thinking more about it, (AND considering the last note about 
    high school sex and condoms) I suppose my mind is changed. However,
    like programs in high school that go along with the condom distribution
    (i.e. lectures and videos on safe sex) should we not also agree with 
    the students that they can have their smoking room, BUT this will go
    along with lectures/videos on trying to break their smoking habit (and
    more importantly their view of the cigarette as a status symbol)?
    
    I am really thinking aloud here; if I have offended anyone with this,
    apologies. 
    
    Monica
    

I think the smoking area would work.  And I think it should be outside.

I asked my husband last night, if he ever remembered the bathrooms at our high
school being smokey.  He said no.  Our high school had three wings of class 
rooms that was shaped like a capital E.  The smoking area (if you look at the
E like it is written) ran all the way down the right hand side.  And was 
outside!  It was damn cold in the winter but that was the price they had to pay
if they wanted a cigarette between classes.  We don't ever remember any of the 
bathrooms being smokey at all.

We live in Ashland now and know that they couldn't afford to build one inside 
with all the ventilation that would have to be added.  So outside would seem to 
work best.

This thing about the bathrooms being locked really bothers me though, problem 
or not.

Wendy

    Being a graduate of Ashland High School myself I had many a cigerette
    out in the freezing cold (yes the smoking area is outside!) but back
    14 years ago I also remember many cold days having them in the
    Senior Girlsroom also which is probably still the one being used for
    that purpose! I can remember the principal and asst. principal
    locking the doors to it every now and then but usually not for really
    long periods of time. They always would swing the door open and yell
    for us to get out but they never did anything to those caught in there.
    They were both males so the only female they could ever get to go in
    there was the nurse. Sounds to me like it's always going to be a
    problem and that they would probably never consider closing the smoking
    room in because it would cost too much money. I think the only way they
    could ever resolve the problem would be to have it monitored by the
    nurse or other female teachers on and off all day.

    
    
    I know it's not illegal to smoke (I should have phrased it better),
    but my point was these kids are not supposed to have cigarettes,
    legally that is.  So isn't a school being a bit hypocritical setting
    up a smoking room .... isn't it the same as saying you can't buy booze
    but if ya got it somehow, you can drink it !!!
    
    I'm sure I'm a bit prejudiced since my daughter does smoke, and I'm
    for anything that helps cut down on it ... permission in school
    certainly wouldn't.
    
    And as for sex and condoms, I think they should be available and free,
    but not handed out to everyone whether they want one or not.  They can
    install free dispensers in restrooms (BOYS and GIRLS restrooms). Since
    I have two daughters ... one in high school and one in college, and
    have heard that since AIDS has really come into the heterosexual
    community, women are more likely than men to contract it, I want my
    daughters to be able to protect themselves, not rely solely on the boy.
    I don't think this either condones or promotes sex ...
    
    Kathy  ;-) 

    re: the last few....  No it's not *illegal* to smoke, BUT... there is a
    law that prohibits the sale of tobacco products to person's under 18.
    
    So where in the dickens are these MINORS getting the cigaretts anyway?
    
    Lyn

    re: .17     So where in the dickens are these MINORS getting the
                cigaretts anyway?
    
    Machines and stores that don't care and sell them to minors.
    

    
    
    
    My daughter gets them from a gas station where teenagers work after
    school .... I've complained to the owner and he said he'd remind all
    the kids there that he'll be fined if anyone turns him in (and they'll
    be fired) ....
    
    But I do agree, where there's a will there's a way.  We just have to
    try to make it a little harder for them (and a lot healthier).
    
    Kathy

This may not be popular, but it helped in my school:

Designate a smoking area.

I am a non-smoker and *hate* cigarette smoke.  Our school bathrooms were
atrocious.  Then the made an upper area of the grass a smoking area.  It kept
the smokers away from us non-smokers when we were eating, and all but one
bathroom was smoke free after that (in that bathroom they put Mrs. Paralee
Rhodes, a *wonderful* woman who was studying to get her high school GED 
diploma).  Then we didn't have *any* bathrooms that were always smoky.

        Carol

    
    
    Massachusetts Laws Chapter 71 section 2A:
    
    	It shall be unlawful for any student, enrolled in either primary or
    secondary public schools in the commonwealth, to use tobacco products
    of any type on school grounds during normal school hours.
    
    	Each school committee shall establish a policy dealing with
    students who violate this law. The policy may include, but not be
    limited to, mandatory education classes on the hazards of tobacco
    use. 
    
    Added by statute 1987 - effective Sept. 1989.
    
    
    
    
    There is legislation pending to amend this law such as to establish
    schools as "smoke free" by prohibiting the use of tobacco products 
    by any person on school grounds at any time.
    
    
    That said, I suggest you contact both the Superintendent and School
    Committee members and ask them what the policy is regarding this law.
    If the answer is, to you, unsatisfactory then I suggest you ask the
    Superintendent and the School Committee to discuss this at a School
    Committee meeting. I would then inform local press coverage that you
    intend to raise it as an issue at that meeting. Then go to the meeting
    and explain why you weren't satisfied with the answers you received
    and offer viable suggestions. 
    
    

    
    
    From memory, the policy at Milford High is first time caught, 2
    detentions, second time, 3 detentions, third time, 5 detentions
    and a call to your parents ... after that, suspension for varying
    number of days, depending on which offense.
    
    Our family policy ... let the school handle it until we're involved,
    then she's punished at home too ... she's been caught once so far ...
    
    Kathy

    Thanks everyone for your replies.  I especially like .20.  What do they
    do with kids who are using drugs, alcohol on the school grounds I
    wonder.
    
    I did speak with the Principal the other night at a PAC meeting and he
    assured me there are some open rest rooms as well as teachers who hold
    the keys for use during classes.  He stated they were open during lunch
    and during passing times.  He showed my daughter the next day the lav's
    to use.  
    
    I told him that I had entered this note and told him I'd get back to
    him with any good suggestions.  I've printed off a couple and will give
    them to him anomynously of course.
    
    I will also give him .20 (again anomynously) so that he will know what
    I will do if action is not taken to resolve the problem of smoking on
    the school grounds.
    
    I beleive they closed the smoking room a few years back as did many
    schools because parents felt that by having a smoking room it gave the
    children the schools consent to smoke (not sure if this was the reason
    but I vaguely remember back when there was lots of controversy around
    this.)
    
    Engdahl (don't know your first name) was that your Dad who fell off the
    ladder a few years back and did severe damage to his ankle at the
    Warren School?  He's one heck of a guy.
    

    
    RE: Drugs and Alcohol
    
    Almost all school committees have working policies in conjunction with
    local law enforcement officials. These policies should be part of a
    school handbook which is mandated by law. 
    
    I'll pull ours and post it here. 
    
    

Engdahl is my married name.  My maiden name is Fahey.  My parents still
live in Ashland.  Boy has it changed!!

    
    
    Okay, here's some more info. First of all, the same chapter of the Mass
    laws that contians the non-smoking rule also mandates each school to 
    provide a student/parent handbook. Any policy regarding smoking or
    drugs/alcohol should be contained therein.
    
    on smoking - our student handbook contains the the actual statute and
    then defines school hours as 7:30 am to 3:00 pm. a violation results in
    a one day suspension and a parental conference for a first offense.
    Subsequent offenses carry a 3 day suspension.
    
    On Drugs - the handbook contains a copy of a written agreement signed
    by the superintendent, the school principal, and the police chief. It 
    is reviewed and updated annually. It outlines the responsibilities of
    students, staff, administration, and law enforcement. It allows some
    discretion for the administrator if the student is "under the
    influence" but not in possession. Possession mandates the police be
    notified. Disciplinary action may be taken after a hearing before 
    the principal but the actual action is left to administration. 
    

    Fahey? Joanne's relative?
    

More like: Brian, Kevin, Jay, Fred, Norby, and Andi's relative!

    don't know them!