Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Well Dottie,
    
    I have read that at Juli's age, if the parents can hold themselves back
    from interrupting for about 15 seconds, the toddlers will resolve the
    problem themselves.
    
    Thankfully my brother and sister-in-law and my husband and I deal 
    similarly with our children (23 months and 25 months).  I would
    hate to have my s-i-l always getting on Eric's case.  I also do not
    think it was her place to scold your child.  If you all knew for sure 
    what happened, then you could have done what you felt was right for Juli.  
    
    And about the peanut butter and jelly - that's just about the only
    thing Eric will eat (along with beans, black eyed peas and ravioli),
    so I must be another lazy mom.  It's either that or let him starve.
    
    Donna
    

    Most of your note described your sister-in-law having problems - not
    the kids. 

    Dottie, I am with Lynn, - I don't think this is about toddlers, it's
    about a very judgemental and difficult sister-in-law!
    
    (having not been in notes for awhile--I can NOT believe "J-A"  is
    this old!!!-- I remember when she first came into your life!!)
    
     Sandy

Sandy:

Thanks!  

Well, I now have trouble remembering holding J-A (who now insists on being
called Juli!) as an infant!  Thank goodness we took so MANY pictures
when she was first born  (which has now tapered off to "one picture
of the utmost important event" - providing the camera has film in it!  What
I should do is take a picture of OUR HOUSE -- would probably provide Jim/I
with some much needed humor when Juli goes off to college!).

I've sure loved and enjoyed 95% of these past 22 months (yes, there was about
5% I'd like to forget!).  I've only just recently adjusted to taking things 
"a day at a time" and enjoying it to the fullest -- only wish I had done that
SOONER!  (but then again the insanity it has brought about in me is probably
a BIG benefit as we enter Juli's "wonderful 2's).

Jim/I HAVE BEEN blessed!

Have a fun holiday weekend.
Dottie

    Once again, Dotti, we are having parallel experiences. We are currently
    going through this battle with some friends.  My son is 19 months,
    their's is 21 months.  David is extremely agressive, but not MEAN.
    Since at this age they are very self-centered, it's perfectly natural
    for them to want to hold everything.  To try to teach a child to share
    at this age is absolutely impossible.  So, they end up calling DAvid a
    bully for taking all of the toys away from little boy X.  LIttle boy X
    will nto assert himself in any manner, mostly (my opinion here) he has
    ZERO interaction with anyone else except his Mom all day, and hasn't
    sorted out the required behavior for playing with another child.  My
    tact has also been to leave them alone. David will, within 20 second,
    decide he doesn't really want all of those toys anyway, and will charge
    off after the cat, leaving little boy X with more toys than he can
    count. But, parents always intervene, calling David a bully, too rough,
    etc.  I have this theory, from reading all the child psych books, etc,
    that I can find, that up until the age of three, it is important for a
    child to be self-centered.  It helps build their self-esteem and sense
    of identity.  Eventually, as they become aware that other people have
    feelings just like their own, they can learn the importance of sharing,
    apologizing, etc.  Not that I advocate permitting David to bite, kick,
    or otherwise manhandle other kids.  But I do try to let them work it
    out in the best way they can.  I can't possible teach David to share at
    this age.  If I ask him to give a toy to little boy X, he will do it
    because I said to, not because he perceives it as the "right" thing to
    do.  Maybe I'm way off base here, but it seems to be working OK with
    all the other children my son comes in contact with (two 2-year-olds,
    one 4-year-old, and one 3-month-old, some contact is daily at his
    babysitter's, some is 2-3 times a week with my sister's kids).
    Sarah
    

    Ditto .5...when *do* they learn?
    
    We're also having a difficult time with the concept of sharing, but
    for a different set of reasons. Nicholas at 21 months is big for his 
    age, so when he meets people on the street, especially at the playground, 
    they expect him to act like a much older child. He, too, can be very
    aggressive around others, but it's not meanness. He wants to touch and
    play with everyone else's toys, but because his social skills don't 
    match up to his size, we always steer him away from the other toys for
    fear that he will offend (read 'push', 'hit', etc) the other child. Yet
    at the same time, we ask him to share his toys with anyone who is brave
    enough ;^) to approach him. 
    
    We realize that we're not being consistent when it comes to teaching
    him about sharing ("Gee, I have to share *my* toys, but I can't share
    *their* toys...what a gyp!"), but in balancing this against the
    consequences of his knocking someone on his/her butt (he's not
    sexist, he'll confront anybody...;^), we don't feel we have a choice,
    at least until he gets a bit older and can understand what it's about.  
    	
    Freddie

    re: .0
    
    Dot, 
    
    This is a trifle off the subject, and I couldn't tell from your
    note -- is it possible that your nephew might have communications
    or developmental problems of some kind??? I know a lot of kids
    aren't walking that well by this age, but the way you described
    his reaction to balls and hand-clapping and such didn't sound like
    normal toddler stuff from here.  
    
    That's a bit the way a boy I used to know, who turned out to be
    hearing-impaired, used to behave.  He just couldn't hear what
    people were saying to him, couldn't figure out that they wanted
    him to join in. 
    
    --bonnie

Bonnie:

I love my sister-in-law and brother DEARLY, so please don't read the following
to be "negative", but rather as a way that I'm trying to understand the
very broad range of differences between Juli and David  (I HATE "comparing"
kids, but Jim/I have picked up on several warnings signs with David ...).

First off, Janet wanted the "perfect pregnancy", unfortunately, it ended up
being a C-section, she had a blood clot on her lung, tendinitis in her legs,
numerous kidney infections ... not an easy pregnancy and delivery!  She
spent the first month of David's life in a hospital bed and Kevin tried
to jiggle a "new job" and a "new baby".  Since they had "minimal" (at best!)
medical insurance, many a night Kevin and David slept in a chair at the
hospital!!!!

The following month or two, Janet recuperated at home.  Janet had a lot of
guilt, frustration and anger from all this (especially when she thought the
C-section was unnecessary!).

David was a WONDERFUL baby ... quiet, docile, slept a lot, ATE A LOT!
David gained weight RAPIDLY ... and has always been "off the scale"
(which may have contributed to his lack of physical mobility).  See, 
10 ounces of formula or a bottle of sugar water made David very sleepy
so Janet/Kevin could survive everything that happened and was still
happening to them.

Janet (a physical therapist) told us that walkers should be BANNED.  They
screwed up the baby's bones and muscles.  Our Pedi said "bunk!, only if
they're not properly adjusted".  So David "laid down" the first 10 months
of his life (he hated being on his back, so he spent his time on his belly).

When Juli started standing and rolling over, David was still on his back.
When Juli was getting hostile and demanding (1 year), David was still
overly-docile and "accepting".

David didn't take his first step until 15 months (Juli walked very early,
at 10 months).  David can hear, but at 21 months, he'll "repeat" some
sounds AND words and says Mommy, Daddy.  Doesn't "communicate" or really
speak "on his own"  (I can't shut Juli up!).  David is VERY fearful of
falling and takes NO chances.  Climbs stairs on his knees.  Walks wobbly
and is very unsteady and unstable (least movement will scare him).
He still eats adult servings at each meal and is very big in size.  When
running, he pitches forward and stops after one or two struts (or falls).
He gets hurt with most falls (doesn't know to break his falls).  He
doesn't seem to use his limbs to protect himself (oncoming balls).  Can't
catch his balance ... it's either UP or DOWN!  David can NOT walk with
SHOES!  Can only walk barefoot.  Janet wants to provide David with a
safe environment (no stairs, still feeds him, picks him up after EVERY fall
...) and doesn't like to see or hear him cry.

So some of it is "personality" differences ... a lot of it is parental
and environment differences ... but even so, usually by 22 months the kids
start "catching up" and become more homogenous in physical development,
intellect and emotional development.  David and Juli are MILES apart
(although Juli's always been early in development and a dare-devil).

Janet is VERY sensitive AND DEFENSIVE about David's development and size.
I sense that she may be "attacking" Juli to cover up David's inabilities.

I did overhear Kevin asking Janet to "please, let's have David checked
again and this time do as the Pedi suggested, see a specialist ..." and
Janet adamantly said "there's NOTHING WRONG with David!  He's just a
little behind in development, Kevin.  He WILL catch up!"  Kevin said
"when we get back to Virginia, please let's take him to the Pedi again ..."
and Janet said "NO!  We'll talk to the Pedi on his next scheduled appointment
(David's 2-year checkup in October)".

So, Bonnie ... I think you're drawing similar conclusions that Jim/I are.
David is behind in development, his Mom is very protective and is
denying the situation completely ... and his Dad's hands are tied!

Not to mention that while we were at the Cape, Juli "knew" Jim's family
(we all visit weekly!).  David didn't.  So David was very shy, while
Juli was very active.  So a lot of the spotlight was shining on Juli,
which probably iritated the situation, too (no one noticed "quiet" David,
but EVERYONE noticed wild Juli).

Thanks for your concern, Bonnie ... I do agree, there does appear to be
some underlying stuff.  Your thoughts, suggestions, etc.

Dottie

    Ouch.  The poor kid.
    
    Would it help any to try to explain some of this to Juli?  It
    seems that she's precocious enough to understand a great deal (and
    you have got one bright one there...) and it might help her cope
    with him if she knew that he's just not as good at things as she
    is, and that his mother is very worried about him.  I imagine that
    the worry she's trying to bury is coming out pretty clearly to the
    kids.  They're so good at picking up things like this. 
    
    I hope your sister-in-law comes around soon.  Or that your brother
    takes matters into his own hands and takes his son to the
    specialist the pediatrician suggested. 
    
    --bonnie

    Do I remember those days when both my sister inlaws and I all had
    our kids within 6 months of each other, both times.  When those
    kids got together at toddler stage, what a pain.  I'm a pretty
    laid-back person, and don't like to intervene with the tots
    racketeering, it all seems so normal to me.  As long as they don't
    hurt each other, I don't bother defending these tikes.  They'll
    learn soon enough.  Sharing is quite near impossible at this age.
     My sisters inlaw were so nervous and overprotective, I usually
    just kept my peppy daughter with me in the living room, at family
    get togethers.  Tried to keep her occupied where all us sisters
    inlaw could stay out of each others hair.

	While I agree that it's unusual for kids this young to "get" the 
concepts of sharing and turn taking, that doesn't mean that it is impossible. 
Keep trying them on the subject.  One day they'll surprise you and voluntarily
give up a toy or take turns.

	Katie at 19 months became a protector of the triplet children of some 
friends of ours.  (The triplets, although developmentally ready for the room,
were both new to daycare and small for their age.)  She would keep other kids
from knocking them down (Went so far as to hit Taylor on the head with a block 
after she pushed down Hannah. Oh well, Just call her Galahad. ;-) ) She also 
kept them well supplied with toys throughout the day.  Katie would always make 
sure that Hannah had a toy to play with when I came and picked her up.  

	At 26 months, Katie has for a few months (3 or 4 months) actively 
and frequently *voluntarily* shared with adults and children.  Over the last 
two months, she has gotten the idea of taking turns down.  She understands 
waiting her turn in conversation (and the fact that *she* is entitled to a turn 
and will remind you of that fact! "It my turn Daddy. Let me talk!"  (She'll even 
tack a "please" on about 50% of the time.))  She takes turns with the cats on my
lap.  ("It Frodo's turn, Mommy?") 

	I agree with Bonnie about getting Juli to be David's "protector".  Katie
really enjoyed the "big girl responsibility" of being Hannah's special friend.
I don't think Juli is too young to teach her that you look out for those who are 
less able to look out for themselves.

Tracey