Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    It seems unfair of your dr. to suggest that you be concerned without
    offering concrete suggestions.  For example, are there specific food
    groups that you should be feeding your son to increase his weight
    gain and development (i.e. carbos, protein, or fat)??   Does he/she
    recommend keeping your son on a bottle for an extended period to
    keep his milk (fat) intake up?   Anyways, I thought I remember the 
    chunky dinners having quite a bit of fillers; which might not be 
    ideal for your son in his situation.   
    
    My son (18+ months) was a gagger (still is to some extent).  What
    worked for us was to make a game of chewing and to constantly remind
    him to take small bites and to chew, chew, chew!   He eats most things
    now but his early favorites were macaroni-and-cheese, pancakes, baked
    beans, and rice...all with very little choking.   
    
    For what its worth, I know two other babies in this age group at
    or below your son's weight.   Look for other notes on feeding and
    weight in this conference and v2 - I'm sure there are some!
    
    Carol     

    There can be physical reasons for your child's gagging.  My wife is an
    occupational therapist who once worked with young children.  I remember
    her telling me that feeding problems were one of the areas she
    addressed, and there are methods for helping children with these types
    of problems.  Unfortunately, many pediatricians aren't trained in such
    methods and often tell parents to "keep trying" or "wait until they
    grow out of it."
    
    If you really feel it is a problem, try calling Children's Hospital (or
    any other center that focuses on the full range of children's problems)
    and ask if they have any services that can help you.

    My son Alexander also 16 months used to be a chocker but sence he has
    been on solids he has been doing fine.  We tell him to chew his food
    and we cut it up in small bite size pieces.  His favorit things are mac
    and cheese, almost all kinds of pasta, scrambled eggs, toast, bannan's,
    mini marshmellows, ect.  at this 16 month check up he weighed 22 lbs
    and was 32 inches tall.  His pedi said that he was doing fine.  Alex
    doesn't eat alot at meal time but inbetween meals his pedi told me to
    give him like a quarter of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or some
    kind of soft easy to eat fruit which works out really well.
    
    I hope this helps.
    
    Liz

    I had a gagger too.  Have you considered some healthful shakes, milk,
    fruits, throw in small amounts of meat that won't screw up the taste?
    You'd be surprised what you can mix together that is healthful and has
    the kind of caloric intake they need.  Use spreads instead of cut meat
    - cheese spread can have small amount s of meats added as well as
    making your own spreads by pureeing meats.
    
    My son spent a long time getting used to the texture of meat as he
    swallowed it but  wasn't as bad as your child seems to be.

    Is the weight really that light or is it just that he's slowed down how
    much he's gained?  Jason is 3 and he only weighs 25 pounds .... or
    maybe *I* should be worried?! (-:
    
    Patty

    One more idea ..... as I recall, the Gerber Chunky foods are loaded
    with salt - which may be making him drink more which may be making him
    not hungry?
    
    As far as walking - BE GLAD!!!  Once they start, they never stop! 
    Christopher didn't move ('the little slug' he was known as) until he
    was 15 mos old(crawled), and walked at 17 mos old.  Jason walked around
    13 mos.
    
    RELAX!!  Also, you didn't say how long ago his 'last checkup' was ?  Be
    careful about forcing him to eat (or causing a 'battle').  It could
    take years for you to overcome this! (TRUST me!)
    
    Good luck - and try to relax
    
    Patty
    

    AJ has always been fairly good eating things, but when I tried the
    Gerber Chunky meals he too gagged!  I think the pieces are too big, and
    the gravy (sauce or whatever) it in excess.  We usually ended up
    putting it in the food processor to kind of chop it up smaller and make
    it just a little more pasty in consistancy.
    
    Our homemade recipie for the equivalent of Gerber's chunky was to take
    2 or 3 ounces of ground turkey and a portion of the frozen "stew style"
    frozen veggies and put these in the microwave together and just cook it
    all together for about 5 minutes.  Then whirl them in the food
    Processor just long enough to have something the consistancy of canned
    corned beef hash.  As he got older I just processed it less into bigger
    pieces.  That way I was also able to control the added salt. 
    
    We also tried to limit his liquid intake, as much as possible until
    after the meal was done.  We still have to do that, he seems to fill up
    on milk and not have enough room left for the meat and veggies.
    
    Lyn
    
    

    
    
    	This seemed to be the most appropriate place to ask this
    	question...  Most of the previous replies referred to
    	older children 16/17 months.
    
    	My question is in regards to 10 weeks old.  She's started
    	taking cereal and has also taken a bit of fruit on occasion
    	as well as her formula, but...
    
    	she will scream like a banshee as soon as you take the bottle
    	out of her mouth to burp her.  If it were up to her, she'd
    	suck down everything in the bottle, throw it up and go back	
    	for more.
    
    	We've tried giving the cereal/fruit first then the bottle,
    	the bottle first with cereal/fruit after, cereal in the
    	bottle, a little formula, cereal, formula and NOTHING
    	seems to be working.
    
    	I thought feeding time was supposed to be pleasant not
    	a screaming fit.  Has anyone else had this problem??
    	Should I be concerned that there may be something wrong
    	with her belly?  FWIW, it seemed to start all of the
    	sudden.
    
    	/Kim

    Ask the pedi -- Spock and others contend that burping is optional.
    

A couple thoughts:

Some babies are very "sucky".  If you've never offered her a pacifier, perhaps
she needs more sucking time.

If she was going suck, suck, scream, suck, suck, scream, I would think it's
possibly an ear infection, but she seems to be the opposite.


Did you start the solids recently?  Babies that young can't necessarily
distinguish hunger pains from gastro-intestinal upset.  She may be having
problems digesting the solid food, or it could be causing gas pains.   One
of the symptoms of colic is that the colicky baby always seems to be hungry, 
because she so eagerly nurses when it's offered.  But then she'll reject it,
because it's seems to cause intestinal pain.

Colic can start almost any time in the first three months.
So, maybe that's it.  (There's a note on colic here somewhere, with 'colic'
in the title.  Perhaps the information there will help.  BTW, my daughter
was colicky).

It's also possible that the type of formula is bothering her.  If you're using
the kind with iron in it, you could try the kind without or a different
manufacturer.  (You need to give each change about 3-4 days to see if it is
has helped).

My suggestion is to try feeding her more often (but smaller amounts) and burp
her after she's finished.  Then give her a pacifier so she can suck some more.  
I would eliminate the solids completely for a while (a week or so), to see if 
that could be causing intestinal pain.  I would also call the pediatrician
and ask if they have any ideas.  (They may have noted something relevant that
you didn't).

Good luck - keep us posted...

    When Eric was an infant, can't remember exactly what age but I
    think it was probably closer to 4 months, he would scream when
    I stopped nursing him to burp him, or even if I just wanted to
    quickly change sides.  Sounds like your little one just wants
    to keep eating.  Eric's burps always came quickly, so I'd
    just put up with the screaming for a few seconds.  It never
    bothered me very much.
    
    Donna
    

How about using a pacifier while you burp her?

My daugher used to (still does) get mad if I took away food, madder if I took
away something she was sucking on, and really pi**ed off if you took away
food that she was sucking on.  We started giving her a pacifier during the
burping breaks and that seemed to keep her satisfied.

    
	RE: Lynn
    	>Ask the pedi -- Spock and others contend that burping is optional.
    
    	If I left burping to be optional, I'd wear more than she ate.
    	(8

    	RE: Rollman
	>Some babies are very "sucky".  If you've never offered her 
    	>a pacifier, perhaps she needs more sucking time.

    	If she sucked on her pacifier anymore, I'd have it attached
    	to her mouth. (8  so that's definitely not the problem.  And
    	if it's not her pacifier, it's her fist. (8
    
	>Did you start the solids recently?  
    
    	Hmm... probably a couple of weeks ago...
    
    	>distinguish hunger pains from gastro-intestinal upset.  
    	>She may be having problems digesting the solid food, or it 
    	>could be causing gas pains.   
    
    	I don't know.  Last night she started to wail when my
    	boyfriend moved her from feeding position to shoulder
    	position for burping.  I picked her up and just walked
    	around the room with her up near my shoulder and she
    	stopped! Go figure!
    
	>e symptoms of colic is that the colicky baby always seems to be hungry, 
    
    	It's not colic, at least I don't believe so.  My
    	understanding of colicky babies is that they just never
    	seem to be happy or satisfied.  She's happy so long as
    	it's in her mouth. It's only when you try to burp her
    	that she gets a bit unhappy.
    
	>It's also possible that the type of formula is bothering her.  
    
    	Hmm.. I don't think it's that either.  She's been drinking
    	the same kind of formula for two months now.
    
	>I would eliminate the solids completely for a while (a 
    	>week or so), to see if that could be causing intestinal pain.  
    
    	She cries whether it's simple formula or formula/cereal.

    	RE: AIMHI::MAZIALNIK                                     
	>to keep eating.  Eric's burps always came quickly, so I'd
    	>just put up with the screaming for a few seconds.  It never
	>bothered me very much.
    
    	You're lucky! (8  She seems to burp really quick the first
    	couple ounces but after that it takes a bit longer...
	I'm sure it bothers me more than it bothers her but yikes!
    	it's difficult to contend with.
    
	RE: MARX::FLEURY                                          
	>How about using a pacifier while you burp her?

    	She screams too much to keep it in her mouth.  On occasion
    	she will hold on to it for a bit but not often.  She seems
    	to say "oooh good, more food..hey...wait a second...there's
    	nothing coming out of this...hmph!!"  and bam.. .out pops
    	the pacifier and in comes the screams. (8
    
    	Thanks for all the advice.  I think for now we're going to
    	try the get up and walk a bit scene.  I believe it worked
    	for my brother (according to my mom), so...
    
    	/Kim

    
    
    My son stayed on strained baby food until he was 17 months old.  He
    would eat cheerios, crackers, toast, yogurt but hated the junior foods
    and wouldn't touch adult food blended.  We took Bart in for his
    check-up and asked the pedi. why our son wouldn't advance.  It was a
    problem at day-care cause Bart was too big for the infant room but
    couldn't advance to the toddler area until he ate toddler food.  Around
    this time Bart started losing weight and the doctor took blood, did a
    stool sample for parasites and sent us to a development group at the
    hospital to see if it was a chewing, swallowing problem that kept our
    child from wanting anything with texture in his food.  
    
    Well, the stool sample was negative but the blood test revealed Bart
    had a viral infection in his bone marrow and was anemic.  By the time
    that was discovered - peer pressure in the toddler room was encouraging
    Bart to eat and he was introduced to rice which he loved.  The pedi
    said that Bart should have extra iron for the anemia but since he was
    eating and gaining weight, no medication would be given.  We also were
    sent to a nutricianist who advised milkshakes, adding powdered milk to 
    any foods we can, gave us milk supplements with added calories to try 
    and encouraged us to experiment with every kind of food.
    
    Bart is 21 months now and still is picky at home.  Since he eats real 
    well at day-care, I don't panic anymore.  We tried all the suggestions
    such as putting different kinds of music on to stimulate eating, letting
    Bart eat and wander around the house at the same time, we even put Sesame
    Street on as a diversion and sneak food down him...  He eats when he
    feels like it.  Candy, of course, is wanted at all times by my spawn!
    
    My son also had tests to check on reflux as the problem and x-rays.  I
    hope you can convince your pedi to recommend a specialist.  We learned
    so much from the nutricianist and the speech/eating disorder group on
    what to do for these types of problems.  
    
    I share your frustration.  Please keep at your pedi. or go see a new
    one.  Eating is a very important part of a child's development.  Don't
    settle if you have any questions that are unanswered.
    
    Marian
     

My daughter has done the same screaming routine as .8 since she was born.  She 
is almost 4 months old now. As soon as you take the bottle out, if she's not 
done she lets you know!  Which is great when you're burping her next to your 
ear!  We and our Pedi decided that she just had a temper.  She is a red head
after all. (The first in the family!  Ain't genetics great!)

Megan won't do a pacifier (and I guess I'm glad about that).  She sucks for 
three seconds and they says, "Hey there's no stuff coming out!" and spews it 
across the room!  

What I do it try to make the burping a short as I can.  I've found that if I
stand up and walk her while trying to get her to burp she does it much faster.
Maybe it's the change in altitude?

We just laugh at her for now and burp her as fast as we can!

Wendy

    
    	RE: Wendy
    
    	I never figured on the fact that she could have a temper.
    	Both her father and I have VERY little patience and a
    	very quick wick...
    
    	Like you, when it's time to burp, it's UP off the couch,	
    	walk around the coffee table, into the kitchen, back to
    	the couch (somewhere in there usually comes the burp) and
    	back DOWN onto the couch. (8
    
    	/Kim
    

    We used to walk *down* the staircase of the house, if it was not a
    major burp it took three steps, if it was a big, major and/or deeply
    buried burp we'd be doing the stairs two times or more.  It never
    worked going *up*, and don't ask me what the stairs had to do with it!
    
    How's that for aerobic exercise???
    
    Lyn

    
    
    	RE: .17
    
    	I'd love the exercise but I don't think the neighbors
    	would want to hear her burp while we carried her up
    	and down the hallway stairs (we live in a complex)
    	What a horrendous echo THAT would make. (8
    
    	/Kim