Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Kimbo,
    
    I don't know about the cruise, but when Kathy was pregnant, her doctor
    *strongly* advised her not to fly after the fifth month and basically
    forbidded her from flying after the 6th month. She wound up cancelling
    two business trips to NYC in July because of it. Find out how your
    doctor feels about it (but since he's affiliated with ours, he's likely
    to tell you the same thing...).
    
    If you decide you can't/won't go, give me the tickets & you can babysit
    Nick for the week. (Mark will need the practice...;^)
    
    Freddie

    Kim,
    
    There is something new out for sea sickness, it is a patch you put
    behind your ear. Only a doctor can give you this, so I would check with
    him first.
    
    Hope you have a wonderful cruise. I have been on five(I love them).
    
    Lynne

    Airlines do not like you to fly after the 7th month.  Employees and
    spouses of employees of airlines cannot fly at all after the 7th.  The
    changes in air pressure can be very dangerous.
    
    I would guess that if you were prone to air sickness BEFORE you got
    pregnant, then you might experience it moreso now that you are
    pregnant.  If you've flown before with no problem, I would not worry
    about it too much... I would contact the specific airline though, to
    determine what their "official guidelines" are regarding pregnant
    passengers.  I don't know if they are standard across the industry
    (or if they can be), or if they are "suggested guidelines."
    
    I'd be interested in what you find out.

    There is also a bracelet advertised in marine shops to help with motion
    sickness - it basically works by applying acupressure to the nausea
    pressure points located in the wrist. Oddly enough, it can also be used
    for early pregnancy morning sickness.
    
    best of luck
    

    I flew for business during the end of my 7th month for my first pregnancy.
    I went to England!  My doctors gave me an internal before I left and also 
    gave me a note to give to the airline if they questioned me.  No one ever
    said a word (although the group I went to work with was quite
    concerned!).
    
    Susan

    We were on a business cruise and one of other guests was pregnant -
    about 6 months along. She had never suffered from motion sickness so
    she didn't get any "treatment" before (i.e. patches or the bracelett)
    She did make sure she eat regularily (how can you not on a cruise) and
    she made sure she got plenty of rest (no cha-cha lessons for her). 
    The boat was incredibly stable but I will admit that the first few
    hours were rough getting your sea-legs for all of us. I know ginger is
    supposed to help settle your stomach so maybe drink ginger ale and
    bring along some ginger snaps to munch on. It also does depend upon the
    placement of your cabin - as you go lower into the hull, say good-bye
    to large windows and say hello of more subtle humming from the engine. 
    Your ob would know if the chemical released in the patches is harmful
    to the baby. If it is, there are always plenty of tums and mylanta
    available on the ship for the morning after hangovers!!
    
    As for flying, do check with your doctor and the airline. Most airlines
    are after 7 months they want a note just in case, after 8 months it
    can get "iffy". I am flying TWA on Saturday and they will let
    you fly 3 weeks before your due date!! The reason for "discrepancies"
    in the airlines/flight is actually the length of the flight. Short
    flights have more drastic pressure changes because the climb at a
    steeper angle to reach flying altitude quickly. Longer flights make
    gradual climbs so the pressure chages are less sudden. This TWA flight 
    is a 7 hour flight. My doctor let me  fly at 7.5 months and there is a 
    history of early delivery in my family so do check with your doctor and
    ask for a note from him even though the airline might say you are
    within the time-frame. 
    
    Have a great cruise!!!
    Andrea 

    Funny, my doctor's advice to limit travel during the last trimester
    was not due to any problems caused by the traveling/flying itself
    but rather to limit the possibility that I would be away from home,
    him, and his hospital in the event anything should happen (i.e. 
    labor or the like).
    
    cj/

    Don't get your hopes up on those "patches".  They contain Scopolamine,
    and there are several warnings not to take it if you are pregnant, or
    suspect you are pregnant.  Cn you take a short cruise before hand to
    see if you will have a problem, like a whale watch or something?
    

    
    Thanks for all the advice out there!  I have checked with my doctor
    about this trip and says go and have fun!  I wasn't really concerned to
    much about the flight.  We are flying down to Miami so it is a short
    one.  I guess I will have to stock up on Tums and Mylanta!  However, he
    did tell me that one of his patients did call him from the ship.  She
    was bleeding, I really don't know how far along she was though. She
    could have been doing to much CHA,CHA,CHA,CHA!!!!  I don't know the CHA
    CHA so I am safe!  
    
    Well thanks again!  I will have to let you all know how I made out when
    I return!!!
    
    Thanks again
    Kim
    
    

    Kim,
    
    I didn't go on a real ocean cruise, but I went on smaller
    sightseeing boats at least twice during my last pregnancy and had
    no problems whatsoever with seasickness.  This although I usually
    get seasick on motorized boats (though not on sailboats) when it's
    choppy, and had bad morning sickness early on.  
    
    A cruise ship is a pretty safe place to be taken ill; there's a
    doctor and infirmary on board, and they can get a helicoptor
    ambulance to the ship pretty quickly if you need to be flown to a
    hospital.  
    
    I also flew more than once while I was pregnant with no problems. 
    The doctor did give me a note to show the airline personnel in
    case they did give me grief, but nobody asked.  He also gave me
    the name of a doctor in the city I was going to in case I did have
    problems. 
    
    Airline policies have nothing to do with whether it's safe to fly. 
    They're worried about their own liability if you should go into
    labor or develop other problems during the flight.  
    
    --bonnie

I also flew in the later part of my first pregnancy - at 7 months to 
Sweden, at 7 months, 3 weeks to Florida.  No concern from my doctor 
and nobody at the airlines even looked at me funny - and I carried 
*BIG* - looked about 9 months along to the untrained eye.  The only 
real limitation that I saw was that by the time I went to Florida I 
could barely get the tray table down!

Oh yes, one other major hassle - my mother (we have always said that 
she got her MD from Ladies Home Journal).  Just knew that my OB was 
all wet and that traveling would be terrible for me.  She told me that 
I would be very uncomfortable on the plane and my feet would swell 
badly.  I said, "Yep, that's the way it usually is when I fly.  Now 
whats going to be different not that I'm pregnant?"

Enjoy your trip!
Norma

    Just one quick note.  I am now 5 1/2 months pregnant and have found
    that thoughout this pregnancy I have had to deal with motion sickness
    even though this never has been a problem in the past.  I am even
    a licenced pilot and have not been able to fly myself since the
    airsickness does not help out in this situation.

    My wife and I went on a cruise when she was 5+ months pregnant.
    She had a lot of morning sickness during the first 6 months of her
    pregnancy. The cruise ships have little motion, we only felt movement
    the first day of a 4 day cruise. We also used to own a boat which
    helped, kinda of get used to it. Anyways, You'll have so much fun on
    the cruise you probably won't even think of anything else.
    
    YOU'LL HAVE A GREAT TIME!!!! LOTS TO DO!!!!
    
                                   Jeff

    The following note is being entered for a member of the PARENTING 
    notsefile community who wishes to remain anonymous at ths time.

    Carol Stolicny


    
    
        I am  interested  in  hearing  about the experiences of women who
        have traveled large  distances  by  air  (say  7 -10 hours) while
        pregnant.  I am  particularly  interested  in  women  who were in
        their first or beginning of their second trimester.

        According to my doctor, flying does not cause a woman to miscarry
        unless there are other indications that  make  flying  unwise  to
        begin  with  (previous  miscarriage, spotting, etc).  Still, I've
        heard otherwise...

        Also, what about the radiation that you  are  subjected to in the
        air?  Is this harmful for the child?

        Any  info,    personal   accounts  or  tips  would  be  immensely
        appreciated!  Thanks in advance!

    
    I took two flights during my pregnancy; both during the first
    trimester.   I had a miscarriage my first pregnancy, which was
    determined to be a blighted ovum, and my doctor had no concern
    with the air travel in the second pregnancy. The first flight was
    Boston <--> Tel Aviv, Israel (i.e. long!!!), the second was 
    Boston <--> Denver (i.e. relatively short).    My son was born
    on-time and healthy!
    
    I personally belive that most "normal" activities - excluding skiing
    at high elevations, hot tubs, etc - will not cause a miscarriage in
    an otherwise normal or "good" pregnancy.
    
    Carol

    Well, we emigrated from England to Canada when my wife was nearly
    seven months pregnant.  At that time the airline did not require
    a doctor's certificate, but I understand that now MANY airlines
    require it purely as protection for themselves against possible
    legal reactions.
    
    The concerns in order of priority were ...
    
    1) Cosmic radiation -- a transatlantic flight is the equivalent of
       several chest x-rays.
    2) cirulatory / fluid retention problems due to altitude / pressure
    3) cramped sitting conditions without much relief for several hours.
    4) lack of sleep if crossing time zones
    
    Well, for us there were absolutely no complications.  That flying
    baby is now 10 and has been across the Atlantic many more times since!
    
    The worst problems were really comfort ...  Try to get an aisle seat
    so you can get up from time to time to move around.  Wear slippers
    on board at most.  Drink PLENTY of non-caffeinated, non-alcoholic
    drinks to stay well hydrated.  Beware your feet beyond doubt will
    swell so have some loose fitting shoes to change into on dis-emabrking.
    
    Other than that, all other concerns are mainly the airlines covering
    their tails and eventualities!  Radiation may be a concern, but
    remember that before ultrasounds, x-rays were regularly used during
    pregnancy, and they weren't the low dosage modern types either ...
    So, if you've flown, and are concerned, avoid unneeded x-rays, like
    teeth etc for a couple visits, I'm sure your dentist can survive
    without!
    
    Stuart
    
    
    

    I traveled from San Jose, CA to St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands (about
    a 10 hour trip as I recall- with a few stops) when I was 13 weeks
    pregnant.   Aside from getting sick in the airplane, which wasn't
    enjoyable, I suffered no ill affects.
    
    My suggestions would be to get up and walk around frequently, bring
    snack foods with you to eat when you feel the need (as opposed to when
    they want to feed you), and try to relax.
    
    I have heard of a possible connection between flying early in pregnancy
    and miscarriage, but I'm not sure I believe it.
    
    ...Mary 
    

    I took one quickie flight, Ma to Florida, in my first trimester. I
    asked for my Dr.'s advice first of course, but he didn't seem to be as
    worried as I was. He felt it you had to travel by air, the 2nd
    trimester would be the best. He was concerned about nausea and gave me
    a prescription, which I never used. I was not air sick or bothered at
    all by the flight. The take-off made me quesy, but I straightened out
    minutes after. The book, "What to expect while you're expecting" states
    some of the concerns about air travel. Such as, "don't fly in an
    un-pressurized cabin, sit near an aisle, etc. But, all-in-all, I don't
    think it's un-safe to fly if you're a low risk pregnancy like I was.
    My suggestion, call your Dr. It'll make you feel a lot better.
    
    Happy Flying,
    Claire
    
    

    I made two trips during pregnancy, Boston to Phoenix during my third
    month and Boston-Phoenix-Dallas-Boston during my fifth/sixth month.
    No complications/problems during either trip but I would echo the
    advice to wear comfortable shoes and clothing, drink plenty of fluids
    and stretch as often as possible (good advice even for the non-pregnant
    traveler!).
    
    Bottom line...relax, have fun!
    

I flew innumerable times during my pregnancy - one to five hours flights.  I
had one complication that I could have avoided with more knowledge.  On a 
flight from Chicago to San Francisco while oh, maybe six or seven months
along I sat down most of the flight and developed small external hemorrhoids.

I now have learned more about radiation in flight and would choose to avoid
long flights if possible but I am more cautious than most about potential 
environmental hazards.

=ss

    
The following is a reply from the author of 525.14 who prefers to
remain anonymous at this time:


	Thanks for all the replies so far.  They've really helped to
	ease my mind!  I look forward to hearing more.

	Re: .20

	Sharon, can you fill me in on what you've  learned regarding
	in-flight radiation?  I'd be interested in hearing more.

	Many thanks!

    A friend of mine was about 10 wks pregnant when she flew to California,
    from MA.  On the return flight, she had a miscarriage.  She was also a
    higher risk pregnancy (1st pregnancy, she was ~38 yrs old).
    
    The hospital seemed to think that the miscarriage was related to the
    flight.  
    
    

re .22

Forgive me Patty, but I hate messages like this ... but I'm not blaming
you, you're only a messenger, but sometimes I thinks messages like this
don't deserve to be delivered.

It's all very well the hospital saying that the miscarriage was likely
caused by the flight, but without saying what aspect of flying likely
caused the problem, it's like saying that going outside causes grazed
knees in children.

	Was it likely sitting cramped for all the flying hours ?
	Was it low cabin pressure ?
	Was it a very rough flight ?
	Was it cosmic radiation ?
	Was it dehydration ?
	Was it drinking alcohol before / during flight to relieve nerves ?
	Was it nerves about flying ?
	Was it lack of sleep while preparing ?
	Was she a smoker ?
	Was there poor air quality on the plane ? (ie lots of smokers)

The list can go on and on and on ....  It is almost irresponsible for a
hospital to say that it was likely caused by flying.

Also, just because a woman is older does not of its own make the pregnancy
substantially higher risk ... there are generally other factors ... Yes
doctors do like to monitor older mothers, but that seems to be because
they really want to ensure that it all goes smoothly (after all chances
of being able to do it again are getting slimmer as the years go by).  Did
the woman have a history of miscarriages or was there maybe a family history
of miscarriages.

There just is not enough known for this story to have a great deal of
significance especially when lots and lots of pregnant women fly on a 
regular basis without incident.

Bottom line ....

a) consult your Doctor
b) don't fly unless you must (which I say applies to everybody anyway!)
c) if you have to fly take all the precautions you can for a comfortable
   flight (if you can get afford a business class seat all the better!

Stuart

RE: .21

I don't have anything insightful in my head other than what was mentioned
in .16 - that a long trip is like a few X rays (which are sometimes done 
on pregnant women if need be).  Like I said, I am very cautious when I feel
I have a choice between a healthy practice and a questionable practice -- if
I could postpone a vacation or get out of a long-flight business trip I 
would but wouldn't sweat over it if it felt real important.  But then again,
you are reading from a woman who eats mostly organically grown food.  Weird,
I know.  ;-)

There are a number of articles on radiation in popular magazines and a book
which I read excerpts from - if you can do a quick literature search at the
library you'll come up with something more exact that can help you decide.  This
has been discussed in a Digital VAXnotes conference or two, as well - if I
notice something while I'm still employed here I'll pass it along.

Enjoy that baby-to-be!

=ss

    There is one piece of advise I was give, by a general surgeon a few
    weeks after having major abdomial surgery.  Make sure that at least
    once in every hours you get up and walk around for FIVE minutes, to get
    or keep the circulation in you legs going.  He said that in pregnancy
    and post operatively devloping of blood clots is common, and this is
    a real simple way to prevent them.
    
    He also suggested that I take the five minutes leg stretch to drink a
    glass of cold water.  
    
    And I had only called him to ask about a several hour car trip to NH!
    
    I would say the same advise would work in a plane.
    
    FWIW, my sister inlaw was more than 7 months pregnant when her husband
    was reassigned, compliments of Uncle Sam's Navy, to FLA.  She had to
    fly alone from Boston, she had been staying with our inlaws while her
    husband was stationed overseas, to their new home in Jacksonville FLA.
    She delivered a huge healthy boy only a few weeks later.  OK it was a
    breech, but that certainly had nothing to do with the plane ride.
    
    

    
    
    I just came back from San Francisco (Boston -> Phoenix -> San Fran).
    My feet didn't swell (my mid-wife said that they may) but I was
    really nauseous.  I believe that I felt nauseous because my ears
    were are stuffed and they wouldn't pop.  The pilot was terrible too.
    My friend (who wasn't pregnant) said that her teeth felt like they
    were going to come out.  He took off too fast.  It took me days
    to get over it and my equalibrium was really off during the whole
    trip.  I couldn't go in a car, bus or cable car without getting
    the feeling that I was going to throw up.  As soon as I got back
    to Boston I was as good as new.  
    
    I was also concerned about flying.  I bought my tickets back
    in February for a good price, before I was even pregnant.
    I went to the doctor's before I was going to go to CA and
    made sure everything was o.k.. If she said "no" then I wouldn't
    have gone, I feel that the baby is more important than CA.
    She gave me the green light and I was off.  I read in one of
    my many pregnancy books that travelling is best during your 
    2nd trimester (I was 5 1/2 mos along) because in your 1st
    trimester, there is fear of miscarrying and in your 3rd there
    is fear of delivering.  Miscarrying during your 1st trimester
    had nothing to do with the plane causing it.  They were referring
    to a natural miscarraige and they are more prone to happen during
    the first 3 mos. and wanted to woman to be near the doctor's office
    or hospital for immediate care.  I came back on 10/20 and made sure
    I had an appointment on 10/21 with my OB just to make sure that
    I was o.k. and sure enough, everything is!  My mid-wife didn't
    seem too concerened about me travelling, even if I was in my 1st
    trimester.  She said to go and have a good time.  My plane trip
    was 7 hours too.  From my experience, I will never fly while
    pregnant only because I was really nauseous.   Just talk with your
    doctor and if they say it's o.k., then it's o.k.. 
    
    I'm curious about the radiation on planes.  I know that going
    through that scanner thing to make sure you don't have any
    explosives on you :) must contain some type of radiation.
    I don't understand why there is radiation on an airplane or
    where it comes from on the plane?
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

    I believe the radiation comes from space (ooo-EEE-ooo  :-} ), since at
    33K+ feet you're not protected by the atmosphere.  Not sure if it's all
    solar or "universal" radiation....
    
    Leslie

>    
>    I'm curious about the radiation on planes.  I know that going
>    through that scanner thing to make sure you don't have any
>    explosives on you :) must contain some type of radiation.
>    I don't understand why there is radiation on an airplane or
>    where it comes from on the plane?
>    
Actually, the scanners used at airports are metal detectors and use
*very* low power radio signals that get disturbed when metal passes
through.  They are often used in store doorways and libraries too.
The amount of e-m radiation is probably of the same order as emitted
by your radio.

The radiation on an airplane is cosmic radiation ... mostly from our
sun, but minute amounts from other stars and sources ... hence
radio telescopes.  Most of this radiation, like the ultra violet is
absorbed by layers of the atmosphere.  (This is why long
distance radio communication goes whacky during high sun-spot activity
and why we get the aurora borealis etc).  This radiation is not particularly
strong, but still not insignificant.

Stuart

    I am a bit confused, though, if the radiatioon comes from space, isnt
    the Faraday shield of the metalic airplane body enough to shield that
    radiation?  I s it very low frequency, or something?
    
    Adrienne (3 mo and traveling in 2 weeks!)
    

The radiation in question is X-rays and gamma rays (even higher energy /
higher frequency / shorter wavelength).  Lead shielding might make a 
difference, but the thin metal of a plane's skin won't filter much out.

	-Neil

    Well, I just traveled from Boston to Orlando to Salt Lake City, then
    back to Boston, all during my 35th week.  My Ob/Gyn doesn't recommend
    travel after the 32nd week, but he did OK my going (if you badger them
    long enough, they'll give you the answer you're looking for! ;^)  ).
    
    By the way, my doctor's concern has nothing to do with flying inducing
    labor, just the chance (albeit low, for the 35th week) of delivering 
    prematurely.
    
    The travel was 100% comfortable for me, but I may not be a good indicator, 
    because I've had an extremely comfortable pregnancy.
    
    Leslie

    	I've read some notes already about flying while pregnant, but
    	most of them were for fairly short flights and we're planning
    	a long one.
    
    	So, do any of you have some tips for a 17 hour long journey?
    	We plan to fly from Z�rich to Seattle.....which has a short
    	layover in Chicago. I'll be starting my 8th month and wondered
    	if it would be wise to stay the night in Chicago or if it's
    	not too bad to just carry on the whole way. I called the
    	airline to find out what their policy is regarding pregnant
    	woman flying and they just said, "I only hope your not planning
    	to fly one week before your due date." They don't have a policy 
    	for this, but that I should bring a note from my doctor just incase.
    
    	I've heard that it's really important to drink lots of fluids
    	and walk around at least once every hour to keep the blood
    	moving, etc. Any other suggestions that would make the flight
    	more bearable?
    
    	Also, we're planning to have the baby in Seattle, then come back
    	around 6 weeks after it's born. We'll definitely book a front
    	row seat, since there's generally more room and a place for a
    	basinette of some sort. Since it takes around 17 hours and the
    	time difference really screws you up anyway, we're thinking of
    	staying over night in Chicago both ways. Any other suggestions
    	for both flights would be great.
    
    	Kathy (expecting in mid September)   8*)
                          

	Kathy,

	I'd request an aisle seat if you can.  I just recently flew
	to Florida and sat in the aisle seat for 3/4 of the flights
	(all the way down, half way home).  I felt guilty taking the
	aisle seat all the time, so I offered it to my brother-in-law,
	and took the window.  Well, we hit quite a bit of turbulence,
	peaking at the time they were serving lunch.  I could not get
	out of my seat, being blocked by two lunches and the serving
	cart, and unfortunately needed to make use of one of the "airline
	bags" provided in the seat in front of me :-( .  I think my
	brother-in-law would rather I had taken the aisle seat...

	Karen

	PS - without turbulence, I had no problems with the flights.

The following note is being entered by a noter who prefers to remain
anonymous at this time:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the subject of traveling overseas while pregnant - did any of you worry about
catching a foreign disease?

We're going to South America, and with the cholera epidemic, I'm somewhat
concerned.  I believe I can safely avoid exposure, by being careful where and
what I eat.  I will not be in Brazil or Argentina.

What did you do?  Also, is anyone from South America and could comment on the
epidemic?

Thanks.

    I travelled to Greece when pregnant and swam and climbed mountains and
    ate all the local delicacies and the only problem I had was low
    frequency fibrations on a hydrofoil we took (made me immediately and
    violently ill but then so did our neighbors Citroen diesel :-)
    
    Actually, you should be at little risk if you were travelling to
    Argentina.  It's one of the few places in South America where you can
    risk eating the lettuce.  I think the cholera is mostly in Peru.
    
    When we went to South America two years ago, we contacted a doctor for
    our shots who is a specialist in tropical medicine.  He knew where all
    the epidemics were, what shots we needed and what was just recommended. 
    If you go to such a doctor, you can then get a list of what he thinks
    you need.  Then you can take that list to your gynecologist to see if
    it is safe for you to take the shots.
    
    There is an excellent book out called "Medicine for Travellers" which
    is well worth the read.  Be forewarned: after reading it you may never
    want to leave home again :-)  But it is excellent reference material
    and made me aware of lots of things I hadn't thought about before,
    especially since we travel so much.
    
    Cheryl