Conference moira::parenting_v3

    If I can help by answering anyone's questions or concerns about
    adopting pets from a shelter or specific breed rescue leagues, please do
    not hesitate to let me know.  Also, the author of the note I included
    in the basenote, Mike Philbrook, does volunteer work at the Humane
    Society.  I'm sure he'd also be happy to answer any questions for you.
    
    ================
    
    My husband and I currently have two beautiful purebred collies - which
    breed, by the way, is WONDERFUL with children.  These collies were both
    adopted from shelters.  My point is, the shelters are full of all kinds
    of animals-- purebred and mixed breed, puppies/dogs, kittens/cats...
    and other animals, as well... waiting to go home with you and become
    loving, loyal members of your family.  When it's time for your family
    to expand to include a pet, won't you please consider adoption?
    
    Regards,
    Marcia                                                      

As the base note points out, there have other notes recently that have had to 
do with pet selection for children.  Please keep in mind that this is the 
Parenting notesfile, and keep your replies relevant to Parenting, not to 
adopting dogs generally.  

Clay Satow
co-moderator

    Marcia, 
    
    What kind of dog, if any, would you recommend for a suburban area
    where the dog wouldn't be able to run much but could be taken for
    longish walks on a leash, in a house with kids and cats?  We have
    a good-sized house and yard but no place to build an outdoor run. 
    The kids 16, 6, and 1, and the cats are older.  None of us likes
    very small dogs.  There are lots of small kids in the neighborhood
    and lots of other dogs, mostly larger dogs that aren't terribly
    well behaved.  
    
    Also, I'd read that most animal shelters won't allow a pet to be
    adopted into a home with very small children.  Is this true?  How
    small is very small?
    
    --bonnie

	Many shelters or breeders have a policy that kittens and puppies cannot 
be adopted into a home with children younger than 3 years old.

Tracey

    If your kids are 16, 6 and 1 - I don't think you will have a problem
    adopting.  Some shelters are hesitant to adopt puppies and kittens out
    to families with very little [infant] children... I would guess that's
    because most of the burden of caring and cleaning would fall on one
    parent usually.  That's a tremendous burden, especially since puppies
    don't/can't wear diapers!
    
    Since your family doesn't really care for small dogs [as in miniature,
    right?] consider a mid-to-small size.  Last week I was at the Tufts Dog
    Wash and the couple in front of me had a smaller dog - she was a mixed
    breed, around 3 years old.  She was probably around 25 lbs. and wasn't
    real tall.  She was very sweet and gentle.  
    
    Usually the shelter can tell you a bit about the dog's personality
    before you adopt.
    
    I certainly wouldn't recommend a large, strong, energetic breed which
    needs to run.  If your children are disciplined to take the dog on
    REGULAR walks on a leash, then you should be all set.  
    
    Again, I wouldn't be so concerned with the BREED of the dog.  You can
    usually tell after you MEET the dog and spend time with it what his 
    personality is like.  That's the key.  
    
    I have always happened to LOVE collies, and I adopted them for that
    reason.  It just happens that they are wonderful with children. 
    Shetland sheepdogs are, too, and they are smaller.  There was one up
    for adoption recently in Haverhill, Mass.
    
    Look for a mid size dog with a gentle personality.  See if you can find
    out about their background.  Were they with children before?  If
    shelters know this information, they will share it.
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

    	Acutally, the rationale (with the breeders and shelters I've had
    experience with) was not the care of the animal.  It was the survival
    of the animal. :-)  Little kids who haven't learned to be gentle  can
    easily seriously harm a kitten or puppy.  
    		
    	My 16month old would probably do just fine, but she's been exposed
    to cats from birth (7 of 'em)  and has had it drilled into her that she
    needs to go easy with them.  But most kids, especially ones than have
    not had a pet before tend to freak out and try to pick the pet up (often
    in blood curdling ways), chase it and so on.  
    
    	The shelter has no way of telling if oyu are parent who has raised 
    your children to respect and be gentle with pets, so they make a
    blanket rule.  Some breeders who have this rule, might be convinced, to
    make an exception if you could demonstrate your child's atypical
    behavior.
    
    Tracey  

    A year ago my girlfriend brought home a brand new puppy - mostly for
    her then 2.5 year old son.  She also had a brand new baby.  
    
    Her 2.5 year old son showed no responsibility or respect for the puppy. 
    His mother didn't have the time to teach him.  The horror came one day
    when he pushed the puppy down the stairs.  I begged her to find the
    puppy another home because of that... and other circumstances.
    
    Little puppies don't usually come house trained.  And, as I mentioned
    in my previous reply, they don't wear diapers!  So, when a new mother
    has an added responsibility of picking up after the puppy... it's twice
    the frustration!  My friend was at her wit's end, and then her son's
    lack of respect for the puppy finally made her realize that it was an
    unwise decision to bring home a puppy at this time in their lives.
    
    The story has a happy ending, though.  Fortunately, the puppy did find
    a good home-- at my friend's sister-in law's home.  Now my friend, and
    her children, can go visit puppy at any time, and puppy has a new
    family with older [5, 8 and 13] and more responsibility children to
    care for and love him.
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

    .3
    
    I think I read into your note that you _like_ large dogs, just not
    boisterous ones.  Well, do I have a dog for you. . . well, not a
    specific dog actually, I'll never part with mine, but a breed!
    
    We have a Bernese Mountain Dog that we adopted from the Buddy Dog
    Society in Sudbury 2 1/2 years ago when she was 8 weeks old.  She's
    very large, almost 90 pounds.  I've done alot of reading since adopting
    her to see if it's just her that's so special :-), or if it runs in the
    breed.  Apparently it runs in the breed.
    
    She's sooooo gentle, they don't need alot of exercise, a good walk on a
    leash each day is supposed to be plenty.  She's _fantastic_ with
    children - our daughter, Samantha, who is now 9 months old is already
    her best friend.  Each time Samantha sees Callahan (the dog), she
    laughs and waves her arms and can't wait to pat her - and each time
    Callahan sees Samantha, she waves her tail so hard I think it might
    fall off.
    
    Our neighborhood also has lots of kids, 5 under the age of 2 and
    several older.  Everytime we take Callahan for a walk the kids come
    running out to play with her.  I don't see them doing that with many of
    the other, more hyper even though smaller, dogs.  
    
    She's a great protector, too.  Barks at anyone who comes to the door,
    but stops as soon as you tell her it's okay.  Won't let anyone near
    Samantha unless you tell her it's okay.  Doesn't growl at people, but
    she puts her massize body between the baby and the person until we say
    it's okay, then she moves aside and lies down.
    
    Another thing - this breed is, well, how do I say this - lazy???  She
    lies around the house ALOT.  Just needs playtime a couple of times a
    day for a few minutes, and she's real real happy.
    
    Guess I'll end my novel now, can you tell I love my dog???  We call her
    our first baby :).
    
    Good luck, I'm sure there's a dog out there for you!
    
    Cheryl
    Who_hated_dogs_until_I_got_one_of_my_own  :)
       

    We started looking into adopting a dog _not puppy_ when AJ was almost
    2.  We started by looking to our local dog officer, who didn't have
    much at that time, and went on to the Worcester MSPCA shelter.  What I
    discovered with MSPCA is that you must specify you're looking for an
    older dog, or all they want to show you are the puppies.  Some of the
    "older" dogs were barely a year old, but tame enough and for the most
    part trained, had shots and spayed/altered.  I was just frustrated that
    they act as if all they have to offer are puppies.
    
    From there we checked into the adopt-a-greyhound program, out to the
    Plainfield, CT racetrack.  To say the least I was impressed with the
    obiedience and calmness of this breed.  They also tell you that they
    will take the animal back, at any time for any reason, if it doesn't
    work out for you.  (I have a friend in NH, who says Seabrook will NOT
    take them back, she has adopted one abandoned by a neighbor).
    
    We're still in search of the perfect dog, but in the meantime have
    adopted a half siamese kitten, thanks to the feline notes file!
    
    Lyn
    

    RE: -1  Greyhounds can also be adopted through an association in
    Hopkinton called REGAP.  They are extrememly gentle dogs, too.  
    
    For someone who is in the situation where they would like a pet [dog]
    for their home who has children, I would suggest that you really talk
    with the people from whom you are going to adopt-- ask specific
    questions about the dog's background [if known], the dog's person-
    ality, etc.  
    
    I feel safe in saying that all shelters will ask you to PLEASE return
    the dog to them, if for any reason the adoption does not work out.  
    
    The wonderful thing about alot of dogs is that because they are a
    family member, they do become protective of your children towards
    strangers... almost like they were their own.  
    
    When I a child my mother always knew whose house I was playing at by
    looking for our shetland sheepdog, "Laddie #1" - who was laying on the
    front lawn, waiting for me.  He accompanied me wherever I went, and
    waited for me, and then followed me home.
    
    For anybody who is seriously considering adding a pet to their family,
    and would like to gain more information about specific breeds, sizes of
    dogs, places to adopt from, etc., there is of course the CANINE
    conference.  Specifically, note 683 advertizes dogs up for adoption, as
    well as one entitled OODLES OF POOCHES [don't know the number].
    
    .9 mentioned that the Worcester MSCPA was so anxious to show you the
    puppies.  That surprises me.  Puppies are the easiest to adopt out.  I
    also think that when you have very young children, you may be better
    off with a dog who is a little more mature [at least 8-12 mos.].  There
    is work to owning a puppy.  While you are busy tending to being a
    parent, teaching and caring for your children, you may not have the
    time to dedicate to teaching and caring for a puppy.  That's why a more
    mature dog is so much easier, from my perspective.  You don't have to
    paper train them, or train them to go out in many cases, you don't have
    to worry about the puppy-chewing stages, etc.  
    
    Dogs will very often "bond" with your children as mine did with me as a
    child.  They can be the greatest protectors.  They can also help teach
    your children responsibility [time to feed the dog, time to groom,
    walk, play... etc.].
    
    Rgds,
    marcia
    

    
    I can't give any specifics, but I remember a few years ago friends
    adopted an older, standard poodle from "the dog lady" in Barre, MA. 
    They described her as an older, rather eccentric woman who runs a
    "private" dog shelter (meaning, she's supported by donations). 
    Apparently, she has TONS of dogs and is very careful about who she will
    let adopt one of her dogs.  
    
    My friends are very happy with their poodle--again, I don't know the
    name of the place or the name of the woman--only that it's in Barre,
    MA.  At the time, their children were 4 years and 6 mos. old.  The dog
    lady helped them pick their dog on the basis of where they live (ie:
    how much space they have), their lifestyle, and the age of their
    children.  
    
    One question she did ask was whether they had had a dog previously and
    if so, how that dog died.  Apparenty, she will not let a dog be adopted
    by people who have had a previous dog who has gotten hit by a car.  I
    remember that very clearly.
    
    I myself have an 11 year-old Golden Retreiver.  I have had him since he
    was 8 weeks old.  I highly recommend Goldens for people with children.
    However, if you are fussy about dog hair wafting around your house,
    then forget it.  We live in a fur factory...
    
    Regards,
    Bonnie
    
    

    I find large dogs to be gentler with small children than smaller dogs.
    
    My favorite breed is the Great Dane.   Our Teayu was so wonderful with
    the children, and he literally grew up with my youngest child.  
    However, because he so quickly became much much bigger than the smaller
    child, it was hard for him to take commands from Gregory seriously.  We
    always made the comment " Teayu knows he belongs to us, but he thinks
    Greg belongs to him".
    
    Whatever you choose, be aware that it's just like another child - and
    you have to teach your children to care for, and to *discipline* the
    dog or other pet with kindness and consistency.
    
    -m

    re .12
    I agree with you. We have a 130 lb. Rottweiler whom we call the gentle
    giant. He has tolerated Ryan's phases of pulling, climbing, and
    prodding. He much prefers Ryan tossing food to him from the table :-)