Conference moira::parenting_v3

Sounds like there is something waking her up in the early hours ... need
for bathroom or whatever ... and by this point she's had enough sleep to
feel nearly fully awake.  So, she goes back to bed and starts to feel
lonely and starts becoming spooked by any and everything.

Also, this is around the age where very vivid nightmares seem to start,
although ours tend to wake with these around 4am (like last night ...
uggghhhh).

Anyway, I'd try to find out what might be waking her up ... if it's a
full bladder ... less to drink before bed ... if it's a noise see if
you can find out what it might be ...  When you've eliminated what's
waking her up, you've eliminated the problem!

Stuart

    You say you have used the idea of a fancy bed as a reward for staying
    in her bed...yet this is still a problem and the bed is ordered? My
    wife has to always remind me not to say things I don't intend to
    enforce. I agree with her and I'm trying to do better.
    Just a data point.
    JR

    I have a four year old who always wants to get in bed with us. He's
    only allowed to "when it's light outside" (I actually enjoy cuddling
    wiht him for the 30 minutes or hour before I have to get up anyway!). If 
    he wakes up in the middle of the night, we send him back to bed (after a 
    drink of water or a visit to the bathroom) and rub his back a bit till he 
    gets a bit more sleepy--but never more than 5 minutes or so. Sometimes he 
    cries, but it has never lasted too long. I am really firm becuase I am
    not especially jolly when awoken in mid sleep--I only wish I was as
    firm when it comes to putting him to bed in the early evening!
    
    I don't think a gate is the answer. I honestly feel your daughter has
    to learn that getting into your bed is not allowed in the middle of the
    night.  This may make for some long, noisy nights at first, but she
    will learn.  
    
    Sandy
    

    I too have a four year old who occasionally wakes up in the middle of
    the night and comes into be with us.  What I normally do is not make an
    issue of it at all. She climbs into bed with us, falls asleep, and I
    pick her up and put her back into her own bed.  Usually I will fall
    asleep with her there for a period of time (I don't know how long, It
    may be any where from 15 minutes to a couple of hours).  Any way, 
    I figure she can't sleep for one reason or another
    and needs to know we are there.  Now granted this is not a good
    practice, and fortunately only lasts for a few nights at a time, but it
    works.
    
    When asked why she doesn't like to sleep in her own room, I get the
    standard "I'm afraid" or I don't like my bed.  I just remember what all
    those shadows, and the little noises used to do to my imagination as a
    kid so I try not to play down her fears.  I just try not to make an
    issue of them.
    
    Fortunately, I don't require a whole lot of sleep, and can fall
    immediately back to sleep and be none the worse in the morning.  This
    may not work for you.
    

    I have three currently capable of getting out of bed and coming in for
    a "visit".  It makes for a lively night when all three happen to have
    "bad dreams" in the same night!
    
    I usually waken when one of them comes in, and can't really fall back
    to sleep while they are there.  So I usually let them snuggle in for
    about 5 to 10 minutes, with a " OK but just for a few minutes"
    beforehand.  Then, I take them back to their own bed.
    
    If you don't awaken when she comes in, it's more of a problem because
    once they see they can crawl in and sleep with you til morning, they'll
    do it.  If you wake up when she crawls in, force yourself not to doze
    back to sleep, let her be comforted for a set amount of time that you
    tell her, then take her back to bed.  BE consistent!! Don't back off
    because you're too tired or you'll regret it.  Give 'em an inch and
    they'll take a mile.
    

    Is there enough light (nightlights or whatever) that she can
    safely and clearly find her way back to her own room if she gets
    up to go to the bathroom?  If it's easier to get to your room than
    to her own, of course she'll come that way.
    
    Instead of comforting her in your bed, maybe you could hold her
    and cuddle her in a chair instead.  I always used a rocking chair
    for this purpose.  But if you have to go clear downstairs to find
    a chair, that might not work very well... but it would help break
    the association of 'mama's bed' and 'comfort'.
    
    But if you gently but firmly return her to her own bed whenever
    she shows up in yours -- several times a night if necessary -- she
    should get the point before too long.
    
    --bonnie
    
    

    As often, I largely agree with bonnie's suggestions (.6).  Here are my
    specific thoughts.
    
    Everyone, including parents, goes through cycles of light sleep or even
    full wakefulness during the night.  If wakefulness is short (less than
    2 minutes, I've read) we simply don't remember in the morning.  Same
    with kids, except they go through stages where they're uncomfortable
    being awake alone in their own bed in the middle of the night, even
    briefly.  That's what they have to get used to.  If you comfort them in
    your bed until they fall asleep, and then take them back, it does no
    good.

    Of course, if they have had extra daytime anxiety, or have awoken from a
    nightmare, they made need some comforting, too.  But it will be much
    the best if this can be supplied in _their_ bed before they fall back
    to sleep.

    		- Bruce

    p.s.  I still have a rocking chair > in Eric's room < in case he really
    needs to be held, rather than just tucked in, but I haven't needed it in 
    a long time.

    
    It could be worse... we had this same kind of problem with out soon-to
    -be four year old.  She would get out of bed in the middle of the
    night and wander around turning on lights, raiding the cookie jar
    etc.  We were worried sick that she might hurt herself or get into
    something that was dangerous.  Lecturing, punishments etc didn't
    seem to work in the long run... a few days later we would wake up
    to noise in the kitchen or to lights on all over the house.
    
    We debated a harness after a friend suggested it but were concerned
    that she'd have to go potty and wouldn't be able to or that something
    like a fire could happen and she'd be stranded.  Finaly what we
    did was get a door alarm... it cost just a few dollars and sounded
    if she opened her door in the middle fo the night... after a few
    night she decided that she hated that loud noise ( we weren't to
    crazy about it either but atleast we knew she could get out of her
    room if she had to but couldn't do it without our knowing.  After
    a week or two we never had to use the alarm again... she stopped
    leaving her bead even if she work up in the middle of the night.
    
    This might not work well if your childs to scared to have a closed
    door... in this case she wasn't and didn't have a problem with getting
    up and walking around in darkness.  But as far as climbing in bed
    is concerned we've always had a rule that our bed is ours and yours
    is yours and thats were we want you to sleep... if one of the kids
    climbs into be with us we carry them right back, spend a little
    time comforting them and tuck them in again.   If they've had a
    nightmare I usualy leave the hall light on so it chases away some
    of the shadows that I can remember being so scared of! 8-{...
    
    Tony

    I do just about what .5 does.  AJ's night wandering is rare and usually
    we can't pinpoint what the exact cause is.  We figure if he's upset
    enough to seek us out, then let him stay for a few minutes (5 at most),
    (not to mention he's an extremely restless sleeper anyway) then one of
    us, usually me, will take him back to bed by way of the bathroom for a
    SMALL drink and "wee wee", then tucked in with hugs and kisses and he's
    usually all set till morning.  I also use this method with him if he
    gets up too early in the morning.  It has bought us the luxury of
    sleeping until 9:30 on some weekend mornings, or just a few quiet
    minutes to enjoy my morning coffee at 5:30am!  I've also had the
    privilege of mentioning this method to two child behavior specialists
    recently, they say that this is the "classic textbook" way of
    discouraging the child from sleeping with the parents.
    
    The question I raise, is could this child be sleep-walking, or not
    fully waking up?  AJ is like his dad and can walk and have a coherent 
    conversation, but not remember it in the morning.  I sometimes ask AJ in 
    the morning what his problem was the night before, he sometimes denies 
    even being up!!
    
    I mentioned in another note that for fear of shadows I showed AJ how
    to make "shadow animals".  You know the bunny, kitten etc with your
    hands.  He no longer fears the shadows in his room and enjoys
    practicing his animals by himself.
    
    Good Luck!
    Lyn
    

    Thank you all for your responses.
    
    Update on my daughter's nightime antics....
    
    Well, she is now staying in her bed on and off.  I can't seem to
    pin-point what gets her up in the middle of the night.
    
    What I am wondering though is if we give up the afternoon nap, then
    maybe she will sleep all night (wishful thinking?).  I think I've
    discovered that she sleeps in her own bed all night, when she's gone 
    to bed a little later than usual.
    
    Maybe THAT's the key!  I'll discuss it with her sitter and I'll let
    you all know if it helps.
    
    Again, thank you all for your help.