Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Yes, you can tell her not to take your son out in a car ever.  IMHO,
    you are the employer in this situation and have the right to make
    the rules.  I don't run errands when I am on the clock, should your
    sitter?  I would be very leary of letting my son ride in a car with
    an unknown driver- not knowing how that person drives/past problems/
    insurance issues/etc.  Since it is your son's safety at issue here
    I would seriously consider laying down some ground rules with the
    sitter or finding a new one.  It will be hard now that the sitter
    expects to be able to take your son on her errands but it is something
    I would do.  I had some problems with an individual private sitter
    which eventually forced us into moving to a center.  Now, I think
    it was probably one of the best things to happen though it was
    difficult at the time (fear of offending the sitter yet wanting
    the best for my son, etc.)
    
    Remember you are the employer, you are paying for services, and
    if you are uncomfortable speak up!
    
    Just my opinion...
    
    pam

    Is it normal?  Our daycare provider takes our son out on errands
    occasionally, let me stress the word occasionally.  I would not be
    comfortable with her frequently driving Matt around because I know
    little about her driving skills.  But her family and kids have survived
    (so far) with her driving.  I agree with the prior noter. If you un-
    conforable with the situation, DO something about it. Your position
    is unique in that the driver varies and is an unknown.   Jeff

    If you're uncomfortable with the situation, then do something to
    change it, though we never had any problem with the kinds of
    activities you describe. 
    
    Around here (I'm in Nashua) it's pretty normal for family daycare
    providers to treat the kids they take in the same as they treat
    their own kids -- feed them the same meals, interest them in the
    same activities, drag them along on the same errands.  Steven's
    caregiver used to take them to Benson's and on really hot days
    down to her friend in Mass, who had a pool.
    
    David's sitter doesn't drive, so she has occasionally taken him in
    a cab.  Usually she just walks downtown with him in a stroller and
    her own kids in tow.  
    
    For me, the issue wouldn't be whether she was taking the child
    with her but the fact that she wasn't using the car seat
    correctly.  I suppose there could be problems with the whole idea
    of the sitter taking the child places, but in a world of a million
    things to worry about, this doesn't happen to be one that bothers
    us.  But it's not important whether it bothers us.  If it bothers
    YOU, then you need to do something about it.
    
    --bonnie

    
    Going places - if you are not comfortable, talk to your provider about it.
    Both of the providers we had asked me specifically if they could
    bring my daughter places. They were both licensed in NH and I
    remember I had to sign a consent form. I personally don't think it
    was a big deal. One provider told the kids to the playground once
    a week. 
    
    Car seat - maybe you can show her how to install it properly, let
    her "practice" and demonstrate in your presence. Stress that you 
    are very concerned about your child's safety.
    
    
    Eva.

    Thanks, I'm not all that concerned about her taking Marc out on
    errands, but rather that the carseat isn't being installed properly.  I
    asked her this morning to tell me exactly who will be driving (turns
    out to be only her mom and one friend), and we can practice putting the
    seat into those specific cars.  She is very concerned to do the best
    for Marc (last week when he had roseola, she called twice over the
    weekend to see how he was feeling), so I'm not worried.
    
    About the general issue of taking kids out in cars, I agree that in
    family daycare situations, the kids should be treated as part of the
    family.  And if that involves going out in the car once a week or so,
    fine.  But, I don't want to start a rathole on this issue :-)

    My wife is a home daycare provider and she frequently takes the kids
    out.  Sometimes it's for errands, and sometimes it's for activities at
    the library for the kids, etc.  If she were approached by a parent that
    they didn't want thier child travelling, then she would give them up. 
    There IS ALWAYS the rule that appropriate safety restraints are worn at
    all times.  This would be my major concern.
    
    Mike

RE .0

I would find a sitter who can drive and have a car, insured to
carry passengers, and have seats for as many kids as in her care.
Our sitter has a Ford Aerostar with six car seats (quite cute
really) and an infant seat. She even teaches the older 3-5 year
olds how to buckle up with this large teddy bear.

She takes the kids to the library on tuesdays for story time, to
Show-Biz pizza when some kid's birthday (usually, the parents are
invited to join in; I went when Sam's had hsi birthday on 4-May).

I believe the care giver should be able to drive and have
insurance.

cal hoe

    I personally would be very uneasy about my child going on lots of
    errands, etc. with someone of unknown driving ability.   My son
    can be somewhat distracting as a passenger!   Anyways, his daycare
    provider, also home daycare, has told us that she would never 
    take him anywhere without prior approval from us and that suits
    me just fine.   Starting in the fall, she will be picking up
    the other child that she watches from nursery school once
    per day and we have approved of that.   Getting in a car in
    Massachusetts is quite a risk (!#(@) that I'd rather not take
    more than is necessary  (like running errands WITH ME!).
    
    cj/

    re: .5
    
    Is replacing the hard-to-use seat with something that's a little
    easier to manage an option?
    
    --bonnie

    I would never hirer a provider that was going to be taking the children
    out in a car.  I have this "THING" about knowing where my children are
    at all times during the day.  I agree with the first noter in saying
    Digital does not pay me to do my errands why should I pay my provider
    to do hers.  When my provider needed time off for doctor appointment etc
    I took an afternoon or a day off or my provider would have a sub come
    into her home to care for the children.
    
    You can say the children should be treated as part of the family, but
    have you ever tried to run errands with 5 or 6 kids.  I find it hard
    enough to do the shopping with my 4 year old and my 7 month old.  I
    couldn't imagine having two or three other children to keep my eyes on.
    
    Daycare providers take on a HUGE responsibility when they choose to
    care for children in their own home.  How can they be responsible for
    what may happen out on the road.  I'd think they wouldn't want to take a
    chance.
    
    My husband tells me I worry too much, but I really can't help it.  I
    don't want to receive a phone call from someone telling me my children
    have been in a car accident.  I want to be able to sit here and do my
    job and think about them playing in yard or what ever, but I know where
    they are.
    
    Carole  (Who has no reason to worry and hopes she never does !)

    My daycare provider has taken the kids with her to drop her
    daughter off at kindergarten and this is okay with me.  It would
    also be okay if she wanted to bring them on a "field trip".  But
    doing the groceries, getting a haircut, and the like is totally
    unacceptable to me.  I agree with two other replies that said
    it is her/his job to care for our children.  They can do their
    groceries, etc, after work or on the weekends.
    
    OR, as in my situation, the husband works nights and is home
    during the day.  When absolutely necessary, the wife will leave
    and the husband will watch the kids.  As far as I'm aware, she
    only leaves for doctor's appointments, school plays, etc...not
    to do the groceries.  I was told about this arrangement during our 
    interview and I had no problems with that.
    
    Donna
    

    My daughter's sitter does errands and I have no problem with it
    at all.  I wouldn't want to be house-bound, and I don't expect
    her to be since hers is the type of job that allows for going
    out.  Sure, I don't do errands while I'm on Digital's time, but
    there's a big difference.  I can't design graphics while I'm
    in a grocery store or getting my hair done, but she can certainly
    watch my kid while she's in the store.  Besides, I think it's *good*
    for my kid to get out (she loves the grocery store) and *anyplace*
    is a field trip to her.  As for my sitter's driving abilities...
    well, all I know is that she has two kids of her own and I don't
    think she'd drive recklessly.  In fact, I think that most people
    (not just daycare providers) would tend to drive even more carefully
    if someone else's kid is in their car.  I know I would.  Sure, I
    like to know where my kid is while I'm at work, but her sitter
    always tells me in the morning where and when she plans on going
    and then I just put it out of my mind.  Of course she doesn't go
    out every day, but occasional trips out of the house don't bother
    me at all.  If my daughter's car seat wasn't properly installed,
    *then* I'd be concerned.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    2 more points:
    
    1) If you are concerned about her driving ability, wouldn't you be
    concerned about her ability to responsibly watch your child?
    
    
    2) People righteously say that the daycare providers are their
    employees.  You sure aren't paying them much, maybe you out to pay them
    minimum wage if you want to be their employers (Sarcasm).
    
    
    Mike

    RE: 74.12 
    
    Kathryn,
    
    I agree totally with you.  If I was at home caring for children
    I wouldn't want to be house bound, why should I expect my sitter
    to.  I also agree that I think it is good for the children to
    get out and experience the world, and how to act appropriately
    in differant situations.  
    
    Chris
    

Our son has been in two home care situations, and both times he was
occasionally taken out with them.  But, the ground rules were that they
always told me if they were going to take him someplace.

I thought it reasonable (especially since at one home it was to take her
4-year-old to preschool twice a week), but I have to admit I never really
liked the idea.  If I were in your shoes where I didn't know who would be
driving, I'd probably have to say no or start looking for a new provider.

Once, the car seat was installed improperly and they did have a little
problem--no accident, but somehow my son ended up out of the seat.  I took
that seat home that week and brought another back--one that was easy to
use.  (Luckily we had it on hand as a friend had given it to us a
hand-me-down.)

I have to say I'm happiest now knowing that my son is never taken out
by his provider.


Marty

    Hi Deb,
    
    You really brought up a topic that has been an uncertain area for me.
    My daugther is also with a family daycare provided who occasionally
    takes the kids out for trips other than parks etc. She does me
    require me to sign a permission slip. Our concern is that if 
    something should happen she has 4 children to worry about. She
    is a very responsible person and cares for the children as her
    own. However, I believe this is a drawback of family daycare
    since I don't believe this is as much an issue with center daycare.
    Just this morning she mentioned having to drive one of her
    children's friends home 17 mls away and asked me to sign.
    Somewhere along the way she must have picked how uncomfortable
    I felt because she said if you don't ever want her to go out
    just let me know. I noticed the other parents involved are very
    relaxed about the whole situation but it's a personal thing.
    So, I think you should discuss your feelings with her. I
    definitely would not like knowing my child was being carted around 
    with unknown individuals. Definitely make an issue of not using
    the car seat correctly. Your child's life may be at stake here.
    I don't know about you but this is my first child and maybe my
    only so my concerns are legitimate.
    
    -clotelle

    My personal feeling is that I have no problem with my provider taking
    Marc places in the car, as long as she lets me know where and when. 
    Since he's only 8 months old, EVERYTHING is fascinating to him, and I
    think mundane experiences like haircuts and doctor appts. are learning
    opportunities.  When he's old enough to be bored with stuff like this,
    I'll probably have him in a more structured daycare-center type
    environment.  I agree wholeheartedly with what Kathryn said a few
    replies back that this is all part of the family-care environment.
    
    My main problem was how to manage the logistics of making sure the
    carseat was used properly, and I think I solved this by asking her
    specifically who usually drives when she goes out.  That way, I can
    ensure that she can correctly install the seat in those specific cars.
    
    My provider absolutely loves Marc like her own (she's going to be
    heartbroken when one day I move him to a preschool), and is always
    anxious to do whatever I think is best for him.

    One of the strong parenting instincts makes us feel that disaster lurks
    around every corner unless we exercise total vigilance, or even if we
    do.  I can still remember bringing Aaron home from the hospital.  I was
    almost certain that I was going to drive the car into a tree, just
    because there was an infant in it.  And that night, it seemed that he
    could never survive if both parents fell asleep.  Time and second kids
    help with this, but I still find myself being sometimes overprotective
    eight years later.
    
    Going on car trips with responsible care providers is not a high risk
    activity.  Of course, accepting this consciously may not overcome your
    instincts, and different parents will feel uncomfortable with different
    practices.  Whatever makes you worry, thoroughly discussing it with
    your provider is bound to help everybody.  Any experienced provider is
    thoroughly familiar with the irrational side of parental instincts, and
    you can probably work out some understanding that will leave everybody
    comfortable.
    
    			- Bruce

    I think this is a very individual concern.  Like ome have said, they
    are not concerned.  With me, I NEVER wanted my babysitter going out
    with the kids.  My reasoning was she had about 5 children between the
    ages of 5 months to 4 to handle, and I didn't think she could.  I
    didn't know where or when she was going.  I didn't know how well she
    drove.  I felt I had a right to expect my children to be at the place I
    put them for the day.  If she didn't want to do this, I would look for
    alternative care.  I think a balance must be found, but I also think
    too many people enter into this type of business not fully cognizant of
    the expectations and responsibilities.
    
    One of the reasons I eventually started my children at a daycare center
    was because they are legally required to get permission to do offsite
    activities with your child.  You know exactly where your children are. 
    I don't think that's unreasonable.
    
    By the way, for what it's worth, I NEVER allowed my babysitter totake
    my kids out in the car unless it was an emergency.  This after feeling
    EXTREMELY uncomfortable after learning of a few junkets she had taken
    with them, and telling her I didn't want them going out with her.  She
    agreed.  I, personally, do not consider homecare to be just like
    another member of the household for my child.  Homecare is a business
    and should be respected as such.  But whatever makes YOU comfortable is
    what is important!