Conference moira::parenting

Is it just spelling or does she also have trouble with reading?

    What type of spelling problems is it?  Can you give an example??
    
    Holly
    

    
    I don't know if this helps but we bought our daughter (5th grade)
    a couple years ago a Franklin Language Master. It is an electronic
    dictionary, the size of a paperback and has a spellcheck function.
    It has been extremely useful for her and us, parents.
    
    
    Eva
    

    Have her vision tested, if you haven't done so already.  Also, is
    she having trouble reading?  She *may* be suffering from a mild
    form of dyslexia.  Has she always had trouble spelling, or is this
    a recent development?  Seems to me the school could (and should!)
    offer tutoring or something, instead of criticism.  I would talk to
    the special needs coordinator at your daughter's school.  
    
    Good luck!  
    
    

I spell really bad - I don't know why - my sisters all spell well.  I 
have one of those Franklin Language Master things - its a pain but its better
than nothing.

I would hope that something could be done at a younger age to teach her a child
how to better 'figure out' how to spell a word.  Sure there are some strange
ones that I have no idea how the kids in the National Spelling Bee contest get
- but there has to be some more rules that just "i before e except after..."

bjm - who just ran SPELL on this reply

<      <<< Note 1121.0 by MROA::MELEY "I really really love my job,NOT" >>>

Someone asked for this earlier, and I think it bears repeating.  Would you
be willing to put in some sample misspelled words here?  It could help us
understand the *type* of spelling problem she has.

      Carol

    Hi,  I've been out on vacation for a week.  I'm just getting caught up.
    Off the top of my head, here are a couple of words I can think of.
    
    thair vs. their
    browen vs. brown
    
    a lot of words have an extra "e" on the end.
    
    I'll have to go through some of her papers but the above words are an
    example.
    
    Thanks for any suggestions.  I will be talking to her teacher later
    this week to ask for suggestions to help my daughter and myself help
    her out with this problem.

    Here are a few more examples.
    
    anwsers vs. answers
    charcters vs. characters
    scnic vs scenic
    relitive vs. relative
    dictinary vs. dictionary
    
    

So that others will step in here, I should mention that I have little 
expertise in spelling troubles.  

Now that the basenoter has entered several examples of the type of misspelling
the child is doing, can someone see a pattern here that might shed some 
light on the problem?

       Carol

    Sure ... she's spelling phonetically (which I'm sure I've spelled
    wrong!).  Jason does it all the time - especially leaving out the
    vowels.
    
    Ummmmmm .... try to maybe get her to slow down and sound out each
    section a little more.  It helps to use compound words that you can
    break out easier.
    
    Hey, I work with a guy who calls the credit union a credit "un"-ion,
    because it sounds more correct ... u-n sounds like UN, not YUNE.  it's
    more of a joke with him, but you see the point.
    
    Try some spelling "tricks" too, even if you have to invent one for each
    word.  I know I could *NEVER* spell the word maintenance, until a field
    service guy said "Well, I always remember it has the word "ten" in the
    middle."  For some reason, that I remember. (I used to spell it
    maintanance).
    
    It may help to over-enunciate words as well - we talk lazy.  Whatever
    is said Whateva.  No wonder kids are confused.  Listen to the
    larger-tv-station, broadcasters.  They tend to speak correctly.
    
    Where she does her spelling, put a sign up that says  S L O W   D O W N
    Also, I've found that repeating the word before and after (as they do
    in spelling bees) helps slow you down, and think a little more.
    
    Patty

    Better detail follows;
    
    > anwsers vs. answers - the "W" is silent, and meaningless.  She just
    			    needs to memorize where it goes.  Something as
    			    simple as saying "The 'w' goes 4th" could help.
    			        
    
    >charcters vs. characters - Say "characters" 3 times fast ... you start
    			    saying charcters.
    
    >scnic vs scenic - Okay, it starts with an "s".  Scenic ... okay, the
    	next letter must be a "C", now we have the "Sce", we just need to get 
    	the "nic" part.
    
    >relitive vs. relative - easy one to mess up.  Tell her there's only 1
    			"I"
    
    >dictinary vs. dictionary - "ct" is a combination sound, which says
    				"cth".  So, she has d-i-then that "cth"
    				sound, that's CT, then we need "inary".  
    				Combination sounds make it even harder, 
    				because sometimes a syllable breaks in the
    				middle of the combination, making it a LOT
    				harder to sound it out.
    
    Another thought might be to work on "breaking" words ??  She doesn't
    seem to be breaking them in the "right" place to make spelling simpler.
    I've always had an easy time with spelling.  If I ever come across a
    word, such as dictionary, the first thought is to break it into
    syllables, and then spell each syllable.  Repeat it several times over,
    and you can HEAR DIC TION AR Y  and that's how I try to spell it out. 
    She's probably thinking "dict inary".  This is where slowing down will
    help a lot, and especially repeating the word.  
    
    My mom cannot spell at all, and I think this is why we all worked a
    little harder at it.  She always tried to learn, but never really made
    it through it.  But I know that all the tutors that she went through,
    every time that they tried to teach her, the flash cards and phonics
    and whatever they used, ALWAYS had the words broken down by syllable.
    
    If you can spell a 4 or 5 letter word, and understand the basic rules,
    you can be a pretty ac cu rate (not ac cur rate) speller.  
    
    Speech and syllables.  And with any "tutoring", try to keep in SIMPLE
    to keep her confidence up.
    
    I before E except after C, or when sounded like A as in neighbor and
    weigh.
    
    Conscience has the word "science" in it. (which totally messes me up
    when trying to spell conscientious, but what the heck - nothing's
    perfect, and sub sti tu tions will kill you.)
    
    Tomorrow -- 1 m, 2 r's (the number of letters goes 'up', just as
    		tomorrow goes 'up' or 'on', if you catch my meaning)
    
    Lastly, my kids have apparantly inherited this "gene", as I *ALWAYS*
    used to do it, and they just sort of start doing it themselves ~8 or 
    so.  When they talk, they spell.  If they come across an unfamiliar
    word, they'll say it, spell it, maybe say it again, and sometimes ask
    if they're right (if they're wrong I usually just correct them
    automatically). It sounds a little odd at first, but it can be a lot
    of fun.
    
    Mom, I saw this kid at school today, and he was dressed really strange.
    s-t-r-a-n-g-e.  He had on these plaid - is plaid p-l-a-i-d or
    p-l-a-d-e? {plaid} He had on this plaid p-l-a-i-d shirt, and purple
    sneakers.  Weird!!
    
    and then he'll be off.  
    
    You get the idea ... i-d-e-a  (-:
    
    Patty

    Has she ever been taught the 'rules' of spelling?  As an example, a
    vowel will be short if followed by two consonants.  If the vowel is
    short and occurs at the end of the word, do not add a silent 'e'. The
    exceptions will be confusing, but she will she have to memorize those
    or teach herself a memorization game to help with it.
    Sarah
     

Re: .7, .8

There were some good ideas in the previous replies.

To some extent English spelling is governed by rules, and it pays to know
those rules.  Often, though, the spelling of a word seems to be completely
arbitrary.  In such cases your daughter should try to remember some trick
for spelling each word.

Looking at the list of words you provided, one problem your daughter seems
to have is that she is leaving out vowels.  Maybe that's because she tends
to leave out the vowels when she speaks, too.  She should sound out each
word phonetically in her head (or maybe out loud while she is practicing),
exaggerating the vowels in each syllable and with a slight pause between
each syllable.

>    charcters vs. characters

Spell it out: CHAR-ACT-ERS.

For this particular word, when I mentally sounded it out I used to
pronounce the "ch" in "char" the same as the "ch" in "charlie".  That
reminded me to spell it char-act-ers and not "care-act-ers".

>    scnic vs scenic

SCE-NIC.  I'm surprised that she'd miss the "e" in this word; she doesn't
really pronounce "scenic" as "scnic", does she?  If she were trying to
spell the word phonetically I'd think a misspelling like "senic" would be
more likely.  She remembered to spell the "s" sound as "sc" but she left
out the middle vowel!

>    anwsers vs. answers

This is a word where I think it helps to mentally pronounce the word the
way it looks instead of the way it sounds.  AN-SWERS, where "swer" is
pronounced like the "swer" in "swerve".

>    dictinary vs. dictionary

For this word the key thing to remember is that the "tion" in dictionary
sounds like the "tion" in "action".  DIC-TION-ARY, where "TION" is
pronounced like "SHIN".  Or else mentally pronounce the word the way it
looks instead of the way it sounds: DIC-TI-ON-ARY.

>    browen vs. brown

This time an extra "e" snuck in there.  Does she really pronounce "brown"
as "browen"?  Maybe it would help for her to remember a phrase to help her
spell this word, e.g. "I OWN a brOWN dog".

>    thair vs. their
    
She should remember that "they", "them" and "their" all start with "the".

>    relitive vs. relative
    
"Relate" and "relative" both start with "relat".

Hope this helps.

				-- Bob

    
    re: Bob ....
    
    think of "scenic" again .... and remembering the "c" is exactly what I
    think caused her to drop the "e".  Since "c" makes a c-e sound.  Jason
    used to do this stuff all the time, and it definitely made a big
    difference having him slow down and pronounce the word a gazillion
    times, and break it down as much as possible.  Like you did with dic ti
    on ary.  Good ideas!!
    
    -Patty

    I have always had difficulty spelling. In fact, I have a hard time
    remembering numbers, dates, and detailed specifics as well, but I 
    do very well with concepts and ideas.  I listen to my step-son and 
    husband banter statistics and geography facts back and forth and marvel 
    at how they can recall all those numbers and facts.

    Spelling phonectically is a great concept, but with all the exceptions 
    in English and the incorporation of many foreign words it's not a perfect 
    system.  I think really good spellers must just be very good at remembering
    letter sequences.  Over the years, I have learned some techniques that 
    help me a great deal.  I know that I need to write things down in order 
    not to forget them.  I know that when I write, I need to go back over the 
    document when I am finished.  If I am without a spell-checker, which is 
    anytime I am not using a computer, I rely on proof-reading and looking up
    in a dictionary everything I am the least bit uncertain about.  

    If I am very involved in what I am writing, it can be very easy to drop 
    a letter, drop a word, or transpose letters.  I think this is because
    my mind is so engaged in the ideas I am trying to express, and the ideas 
    are coming faster than I can write or type.  Your daughter may be the
    same way.

    It might help your daughter a great deal to get into the habit of taking
    time to read her papers out loud after she completes them. By reading 
    them *out loud* she will be more apt to notice missing words, transposed
    letters, and misspellings.  Anytime something doesn't look quite right,
    she should look it up in the dictionary.

    Leslie

    Did the basenoter's daughter go through the best-guess spelling or
    creative spelling theory in early elementary years (i.e., K-3)?  I am
    finding (as I've said before) that the mixed message presented by this
    theory is rather long reaching.  If you tell a child during those four
    all-imporant formative years (educationally speaking) that they are
    only "responsible" for their spelling on test day, that habit can be
    pretty hard to break.
    
    One of my friends has a son in 5th grade who has never really outgrown
    the thought that spelling only counts on the test, and may always have
    a problem with it.  I don't personally support giving a young child an
    electronic tool to replace the simple mind process of learning to
    spell, but then again, I was a championship speller, straight A's, won
    several local and state spelling bees.  YMMV.
    
    M.