Conference moira::naturism

    A mail query about note 13.0 indicated that I could have been
    a little more detailed.  So:
    
    	The picnic area shown on my map is a perfectly normal, public,
        clothing-required picnic area, which just happens to provide
        the parking and access for the Ledges.  (Actually, the picnic
        area and the Ledges are probably both on NEPCO land.)
        
        The Ledges is simply an undeveloped area of rocks and ledges
        along the lakeshore, which has traditionally been used for
        clothing-optional sunning and swimming.  The only facilities
        of any sort (including toilets) are back at the picnic area.
        
    -Neil

    It is not illegal in Vermont to be nude in a public place unless
    there is a citizen complaint.  In this case, one may be required
    to dress.
    
    The only time I can remember seeing uniformed officers there, they
    came by to check whether everyone in a canoe had a life jacket.

    I have never heard of anyone ever encountering legal hassles
    at the Ledges.  In fact, the only hassles of any sort that I
    have heard of there are recounted in the following clipping from
    REC_NUDE, note 224.2:
    
 
>     A few years back at The Ledges, I was relaxing in the sun when a
>     motorboat began approaching the shore.  This isn't too
>     unusual--people sometimes buzz by for a quick gape--but this boat
>     ran right up onto the sand.  There were three slimy-looking guys
>     inside, wearing dirty T-shirts and baseball caps.  They popped some
>     beers and just sat in the boat, gawking at the nude women around
>     them.  Within a few minutes they were pointing at different women
>     and laughing and making disgusting comments. 
 
>     Some of the women started talking among themselves.  Then about 15
>     or so stood up and walked to the boat.  They stood in a circle
>     around the boat, facing it, just looking at the guys.  They leaned
>     over so that their bodies were as close as possible to the guys;
>     more than a few breasts were almost poking into eyeballs.  The women
>     just stood like that for a few moments, saying nothing. The guys
>     froze, their mouths agape, beers in their hands.  Without a word,
>     one of them jumped out and pushed the boat back into the water.
>     They started the motor and the boat roared away so fast it almost
>     hit a rock.  I've never seen them since. 
 
>     Everyone on the beach stood up and gave the women a standing
>     ovation. 
    

    Re Vermont legalities,
    
    The following memo was reprinted in _Barefoot_ #2.  From the
    header material, it does not appear to have had state-wide
    authority, and I have no idea whether it is still in force,
    17 years later; but I gather that this is essentially the policy
    that is still followed in Vermont.
    
    	-Neil
    
    ====================================================================
    

    TO:  ALL POLICE DEPARTMENTS
    FROM:  CHITTENDEN COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY
    	   PATRICK J LEAHY (BURLINGTON)
    RE:  UNCLOTHED PUBLIC OR SEMIPUBLIC BATHING
    DATE:  JULY 7, 1971

    A number of law-enforcement agencies have asked this office for
    advice in view of the revival of the time-honored practice of
    unclothed swimming known colloquially as "skinny-dipping".

    I was originally disinclined to slow the crime-fighting operation
    of the Chittenden County State's Attorney's Office long enough to
    issue a memorandum of such miniscule moment.  However, I have been
    reminded that in the past the plethora of paper from this office
    has included such legal landmarks as my position on the use of
    sparklers on the Fourth of July (a position hedged with great
    patriotic fervor) and the validity of upside-down license plates
    (complete with instructions on how to determine the sobriety of
    the operator at the time he attached the plate).

    With such powerful precedents in mind, I ensconced myself at my
    family's summer farm near Montpelier during the Fourth of July
    Weekend and researched the issue.

    I began by reviewing the old Norman Rockwell paintings,
    thoughtfully resurrected by the ACLU, showing such activities
    taking place allegedly in Vermont (along this line I was unable
    either to confirm or refute the persistent rumor that Vermont's
    number one politician, Calvin Coolidge, had also engaged in such
    activity within the borders of this state while subject to
    Vermont's laws).

    I have also discussed -- after grants of immunity -- experiences
    of this nature enjoyed by some of Vermont's prosecutors, judges,
    law-enforcement officers and sailboat operators.  After checking
    the Statute of Limitations, I have even reviewed past histories
    with some of my contemporaries during my teenage years in
    Montpelier.  Also, each member of my office offered to investigate
    this matter in an undercover manner (so to speak).

    It appears that most Vermonters I've talked to have engaged in
    such scandalous activity at some time in their life (with the
    exception of a couple I didn't believe who claimed to have done so
    in May in Vermont).

    Times, however, do change.  Today such things are apparently
    allowable in most movies, on Canadian Television, in the
    _National_Geographic_ and _Life_Magazine_, but by no means in the
    pristine rivers and streams of Vermont.

    Therefore, to guide any law-enforcement officer so lacking in
    other criminal matters to investigate, so as to have time to
    investigate this currently popular subject of skinny-dipping, I
    offer, IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, the following guidelines:

	1.  In public areas (e.g. North Beach in Burlington) and
	semi-public areas:  Nude bathing is not acceptable.  In such
	instances, the officer receiving the complaint should order
	the person to dress.  Failure to stay clothed should result in
	a summons to court.

	2.  On private land out of view of the public:  The State has
	no legitimate interest and swimmers should be left alone.

	3.  In secluded areas sometimes publicly used (e.g. rivers,
	swimming holes, etc.):  If no member of the public present is
	offended, no disorderly conduct has taken place.  If members
	of the public (e.g. families wishing to use the swimming area)
	complain, then proceed as in No.1 above.

    
    
         I just hope that my presence won't affect native Vermonters
       now that I know of a place where I can go and not be worried
       that the law is watching. As soon as the sun warms the ground
       enough I'm headed!!!     8-)   Yah-hoo!!
    
    Tom                         

    This Pat Leahy, I take it, is the same who's now Senator from Vt?
    Pretty good sense, up there...
    					-JwT

    
    
    In the springtime and early summer, the water in the resevoir is
    usually quite high and not as many rocks available for sunning.
    I have heard reports that there is some sand that is exposed later
    in the season. If you go before the middle of July, arrive early
    to reserve your rock.
    
    Bob
    

    In practice, early means before 10 AM.

    I've been there quite a few times, and it's quite nice. The only
    hassles I've ever had are from some of the people in the picnic
    area who don't like what you're doing. The area tends to spread
    out from the ledges, so even if you're too late to go sunning on
    the rocks, you can still find a place to go for a swim.
    
    A word of caution: Some of the boaters are more interested in gawking
    than in watching where they're going. If you see a boat coming,
    it's pretty safe to assume they're coming in for a closer look.
    Stay out of their way ( jerks that they might be ), if someone gets
    hurt in a boating accident, you can bet that will be just the excuse
    they need to close the place down.
    
    							John.

    Another vist to the Ledges last weekend was delightful.  The water
    was the lowest I have ever seen it there, which meant that there
    would easily have been room for several hundred people.  The 70
    degree weather and breeze off the lake seemed to have kept the
    people away, but it was very pleasant (at least when the sun was
    out).  The water was warm enough for comfortable swimming, though
    not as warm as it was earlier this year -- the only problem was
    surviving the interval between getting out of the water and getting
    dried off.  
    
    If you live in the area and haven't been to the Ledges yet... well,
    maybe there will be another nice weekend or two before the summer is
    gone. 
    
    	-Neil

    I went to visit the ledges on Saturday the 13th, and got there about
    2:30 or so. There was a very long line to get near the parking area,
    and I saw a very frazzled person trying to control the people that
    wanted to drive into the parking area where there was no room for
    their cars.
    
    I spoke to this person, and asked her if she could use some help,
    since it seemed like she was having a difficult time controlling
    the situation. She was very happy about this, and I parked my car
    about � mile away from the entrance, and helped her out, trying
    to get cars to go away for a while until the parking situation cleared
    out.
    
    Some of the people going there were very adamant about wanting to
    get down to the parking area; they really didn't want to listen
    to the fact that there was nowhere that they could park without
    blocking emergency vehicle paths.

    I was concerned that conflicts like this at the reservoir area could
    bring in more regulation, which would not be a good thing. Please
    pass on the message that the people working at traffic control there
    really do want everyone to have a good time, and are very concerned
    over the ability of emergency vehicles to negotiate the roads in the
    event that there is an emergency.

    Kevin

    I didnot visit the gorges that you have spoke about in this letter
    but in early july of this year i rented a cabin in halifax vermont
    which is about 1 mile over the mass border.  About 1 mile up the
    road from the cabin i rented was an old picnic that was closed about
    2 years ago.  Its private property and if the police see cars on
    the road they will come down and ask you to leave.  But they do
    not arrest or hassle people or are sunbathing.

    Is there anywhere to stay overnite near the Ledges?  What's the closest
    town?

The Ledges is only about five miles from the town of Wilmington, which 
something of a resort center in southern Vermont.  Also: it's only about half
an hour from Brattleboro on the east side of the state; there are a couple
of inns on Rte 9 between Brattleboro and Wilmington, which might be only
restaurants or might be bed-and-breakfasts; and there's a state park with 
camping (Molly Stark State Park) a few miles to the east.  You shouldn't 
have any trouble at all finding a place to stay.

	-Neil

Visited the Ledges for my first public nude experience. The directions
provided in this note are perfect, although I did get a bit fouled up
on the trail from the parking lot and had this fear of getting lost in 
the woods never to be seen again ;^).

I figure there were about 30 people there, the water according to a few
regulars, was lower than last week, and warmer. I can't comment on that
because having got splashed when a couple of guys went in I knew it was 
a bit cool for me.

I was able to stake out a pretty nice section of rock and really enjoyed
being there. What amazed was there were all ages of folks, all shapes and
sizes and they actually carried on "normal" conversations, just like every
body in here has said.


I hope to return soon.


Jim.


PS..someone mentioned motels in an earlier reply. How did that work out?

    Re: motels near the Ledges.  We decided to splurge and stayed in the
    Nutmeg Inn, a very nice b&b a mile or two out of the center of town,
    going west.  ($84/nite, including breakfast).  
    
    We also had some trouble with the path.  We were periodically
    encouraged, though, by people coming in the other direction!
    
    I would appreciate some restauant recommendations, though.  We picked a
    fish place (can't remember the name) which was yuck.  Why do we keep
    doing this??  Eating fish 100 miles from the ocean?!  As former
    Bostonians, we keep forgetting!

I'm sure there must be some nice restaurants in Wilmington, although we have
never eaten there.  Usually we stop in one of two places:

	Hogback Mountain restaurant -- I'm not sure if that's the name, but
	you can't miss it.  It's the restaurant on the north side of Rte 9
	at the very top of the ridge between Wilmington and Brattleboro.
	Nothing fancy, but nice enough (I always get the lake trout), and
	reasonable prices.  The big thing is the view.  They claim you can
	see for 100 miles, and I don't doubt it.

	Common Ground -- again I'm not sure of the name, but there is a very
	nice coop natural foods / vegetarian  restaurant in downtown 
	Brattleboro.  You wouldn't eat here if you were staying in Wilmington, 
	but it's quite convenient if you're heading home to New Hampshire or
	eastern Mass after a day at the Ledges.

I'm pretty sure that there are a couple of fancy-looking inns along Rte 9
between Wilmington and Brattleboro, too.

	-Neil

    Re : .18


    >>	Hogback Mountain restaurant -- I'm not sure if that's the name, but
	[...]
    >>	reasonable prices.  The big thing is the view.  They claim you can
	see for 100 miles, and I don't doubt it.
	
    I think the restaurant is called the Skyline.  It sits on the westbound
    side of Rte. 9...can't miss it and the view (on a clear day) *is* about
    100 miles...the Holyoke Range is easily seen.

    >>	Common Ground -- again I'm not sure of the name, but there is a very

    Neil, you were correct.  It is the Common Ground and it's located on
    Eliot Street (one of the 4 main streets in town), very easy to find.

    May I make a few suggestions?  Dining in the Wilmington area can be
    a culinary delight, but you'd best bring your credit card(s).  It isn't
    cheap.  Should you want to splurge after a day at the Ledges, do try
    the Hermitage on Coldbrook Road in West Dover (about 15 mins. from the
    intersection in Wilmington) or the Inn at Sawmill Farm on Rte. 100 in
    West Dover (15 mins. also).  They both rent rooms and, yes, the prices
    are prohibitive..but, for a romantic weekend....oh, the food is
    continental/nouvelle cuisine.

    In Brattleboro, there is TJ Buckley's on Eliot Street, just down the
    road from the Common Ground.  It's located in a diner and there are
    only about 15-20 seats.  Moderately expensive, but good.  Nice wine
    list and yummy desserts.  If the owner and sometimes-chef looks
    familiar, imagine him without his clothing...he hangs out at the Ledges
    or at Rock River whenever possible!   8*)

    Happy eating,
    
    lillian
    
    

    For more info, look in BTO::VERMONT

    The actual path is flooded in one spot, so you're having to go a
    little more to the north.  Newcomers shouldn't feel too bad --
    I've been going there for years and I got disoriented.  When the water
    goes down some, the path will be considerably more obvious.

I haven't been to the Ledges, but I've been to Rock River
and know the area pretty well.  I haven't stayed at any
of these places yet...maybe this summer.

Crafts Inn 802-464-2012  Rte. 9, Wilmington

Fjord Gate Inn and Farm 802-464-2783  Higley Hill Rd., Wilmington

Green Mountain Flagship Co. 802-464-2975  RFD 1, Wilmington 

Horizon Inn 802-464-2131 Rte 9, Wilmington

The Inn At Quail Run 802-464-3362  Smith Rd. Wilmington

Misty Mountain Lodge 802-464-8233 Stowe Hill Rd, Wilmington

Nordic Hills Lodge 802-464-5130 179 Coldbrook Rd., Wilmington

Old Red Mill, 802-464-3700 or 800-843-8483 Rte. 100, Wilmington

Vintage Motel 802-464-8824, Wilmington

The White House of Wilmington 802-464-2135

If you want further info on these places I have the 1989 Vermont
travelers guide here at work (send me mail).  I also own property
in Marlboro on the Wilmington line, I would have a place to rent
out, if the snow had not collapsed my mobile home 2 winters ago.
I plan on building something small soon.

Have had the opportunity to go to the Ledges a couple of times in the
last 2 weeks, once on a weekday 2 weeks ago today, and this past Saturday.
Thursday was beautiful (except for a brief rain shower early in the afternoon)
and I'd say there were probably 15 people there. More rocks were visible
than on my first visit and the water was comfortable (warmer than the pool
at my apartment!) with c-o-l-d spots in places. I really got fouled up on
the path on the way in, and turned out having a nice hike in the woods
that worked up a sweat that made the swim feel great.

This past Saturday I arrived late morning (10:00) and there were a few
folks there at that time. The path was much more visible now that the
water level has gone down and I managed to find where I was going 
easily (phew!) In just a week I noticed a big difference in the water
level, with more area available for sunning. It started to rain just
as I was preparing to leave to return to the "real world" (sigh) at
about 2:30-3. I'd guess that there were 30-40 people maybe more if
one were to consider the various rocks and stuff all around the area.
Someone was selling "The Ledges" T shirts, and if I hadn't left my
wallet sitting home on my kitchen table I would have bought one. The
family that had parked themselves near me bought some. Hopefully the
person with the shirts will be back next time I'm there.


I really enjoy the Ledges, and look forward to my next visit.


Jim

RE:  .23

     I was there last Saturday also, and was lucky to get the last X-Large 
T-shirt.  We probably ran into each other cause I arrived about 10:00 and 
left at about 2:45.  I have been going up every Saturday since mid June and
will try to go every Saturday the rest of the summer.  I gues the nudist bug 
has bitten me again.  I had not been al natural since 1986 when I used to go 
down to Long Island frequently.  

     I should be easy to spot.  I carry a "Digital Survival Kit" pack and 
normally settle on the ledge below the small tree, or in the shade right 
behind it.  When anyone is up there, say hello.  

Brian

    I want a T-shirt too!  Rats! - I was there on Saturday, but I didn't
    see anyone selling T-shirts.  We were on the rocks that are just
    past the jumping area.  This weekend I'll have to visit the main
    rock before the jumping area and see if anyone is selling them again.
    
    Can someone describe what the T-shirts look like?  And how much?
                                   
    Thanks,
    
    - Molly -

They were yellow, with a picture of the tree growing out of the cliff
with the figure of a woman diving off of the cliff. They also had lettering
saying "The Ledges" and (whatever town its in), Vt.

They were $10. By the time they got to where I was they only had a couple
left. I hope by the time I get back up there, which may not be for 2 weeks
:^( they'll have them again.



Jim

    Chances are I'll be there in a couple of weeks for a weekend ( Just
    got back from MV Gay Head sunshine salt water ). Looking forward to
    tree shade fresh water. I like to do flips off the rock. If you see me,
    give a hoot. My girlfriend's parents live in Wilmington ( although
    they are decidedly not naturist/nudist by any stretch of the
    imagination ). We might arrive by canoe.
    
    
    						John.

    
    Interstingly, the magazine H&E recently had some pictures of nudist
    places around the world.  One of the snaps was of the Ledges in
    Vermont.
    
    	Aaaa Haa !  I thought I recognized some familiar bodies !  ;-)
    
    Darrell
    

    If the weather's nice, I'll be there tomorrow and sunday. If you see
    some idiot doing flips off the rock, it's probably me.
    
    						John.

I may see you there.  Molly and I will be going Saturday (probably arriving
late).  I may also join you for a flip or three!

Carl

    Having only been to the Ledges once, on a day not fit for swimming, I
    must issue a general caution to anyone jumping or diving into unknown
    waters, especially in positions other than feet first.  
    
    Be careful.  One of the major causes of serious accidents in the
    summer, and one of the major causes of paraplegia is diving into
    unknown waters.  It is easy to break your neck, resulting in permanent
    paralysis or death.
    
    Since you've done this before, you're probably familiar with the water
    and know that it's deep enough (though water levels tend to drop as the
    summer progresses).  I just don't want to see anyone taking a fun idea
    and being reckless with it.
    
       Gary

    I have been told (by a careful swimmer) that the water at the ledges
    is very deep, and quite safe for diving. 
    
    See you there Sunday.
    
Peter

        
    On our trips to the ledges, the first thing my kids want to do
    is start jumping off the highest rock They can find. 

    Even though we have been there before, I first swim in to the
    area and surface dive several times to check it out. Given the
    changing water levels at the ledges, and the consequences of
    misjudgment, this seem reasonable to me. After all, the only
    problem is that I get wet.

    There are deep places, sometimes I can't find bottom!

    -gerry

    Well, the weather on Saturday was fairly good, partly cloudy but warm.
    The water was nice and warm. The main rock I usually like to dive off
    of was way too shallow. Egads, the water level was down about 12 feet.
    However, there were some rocks off to the right where I could dive. I
    met Robin and overall had a very nice time.
    
    The weather on Sunday was not as nice. We arrived a little late and
    managed to stay a half hour before thunder started up upwind. We packed
    our stuff and left disappointed that we couldn't stay any longer.
    
    							John.

Hey John, you met Jim, too!! ;^) Yep the water was great, but the wind
meeting one's wet skin cooled you off in a hurry.

Saw a few families there which I thought was pretty neat. I also
saw a couple wandering along the path picking up trash, etc, that
some folks had left there. I think we should all remember that if
we bring it in, we'd better take it back out.


Jim

    I enjoyed a couple of hours there on Sunday, would have liked more
    but I prefer to avoid thunder storms too.
    
    I found a good place to dive. After checking the depth, I decided
    that I needed to keep well out from the rocks for safety.

    It was very pleasent to lay in the sun, and be kept cool by a gentle
    breeze. 
    
Peter.
    
    P.S. Next time I must bring a "Digital" shirt to place on the rocks
         for identification.

    At the ledges, the small kids frighten me a little. The rocks there can
    get pretty steep, and the water gets pretty deep pretty quickly. Way
    back when, I used to be a lifeguard, but I'm not always paying
    attention. The parents were pretty quick when one little girl got in
    over her head ( at least that's what I was told, I didn't actually see
    it ). I think it's important to point out that the ledges is not the
    safest place for kids to be, and that you really have to be alert if
    you're a parent ( Or, get someone like me to keep an eye on them for a
    short while ). Kids ain't too big in the risk evaluation dept. We don't
    want to see the ledges end in a tragedy. We all want a SAFE naturist
    experience!
    
    							John.

	Let's  get back to the subject.  I missed last weeks outing to the 
	ledges, because I had to work DUSS on Friday and Saturday Morning. 

	I did stop by the Ledges on my way to New York for vacation on 17 
	July.  This was a cold, windy, foggy Monday.  The only other people 
	there were the security guards.  The lake was so calm that I could 
	see the fish swimming under the cliffs.  Eventhough the weather was bad 
	I felt like I had to go skinnydipping after coming all that way.
	Anyone who has meet me knows I carry plenty of insulation.  The water 
	wasn't to cold.  Getting out was a different story, because I forgot 
	to bring a towel.

	Brian

A lengthy digression on safety, concerns about safety, and the importance 
(or lack thereof) of concerns about safety (with a few specific comments
about the Ledges) has been moved to topic 192.

	-Neil Faiman, moderator

The lady selling T-shirts was out Sunday Afternoon.  I have made arrangements
to place an order with her and pick them up some weekend.  I will probably 
place the order next week.  

DESCRIPTION:  Light Yellow Hanes T-shirt with 50% Cotton/50% Polyester.  The 
picture is the pine tree growing out of the cliff on the upper ledge with the 
shiloette of a woman diving off the cliff.  The lettering around the picture 
reads "THE LEDGES, WILMINGTON, VT."  The picture is tasteful enough to wear 
to work.  

COST:  $10

SIZES:  Adult Small through X-Large

ARRANGEMENTS:

	1.  I will be taking orders this week and next week(7 Aug-18 Aug 1989).
	I will also be at Solair this weekend and will take orders there.

	2.  Orders can be placed electronically by sending mail to me at 
	CURIE::BBARRY or "Brian Barry @ MRO."  You can also send orders to 
	me at MRO4-3/H8 or stop by my office at MRO4-3 J7.  Please specify 
	number desired, sizes and delivery location.

	3.  Payment should be either cash or check made out to me.  I prefer
	receiving payment with orders, but will accept cash payment at time 
	of delivery.  

	4.  For orders within the Maynard-Merrimack-Marlboro Area, I will 
	deliver the shirts over the next two weeks when I am in the area.
	Orders will NOT be delivered by inter-office mail.  I get to ZKO 
	about once a week, MKO about once a month, and MLO/OGO about once 
	a week.  

	5.  For people outside of M-M-M area, I will send orders by US Mail, 
	so I need a valid US Mail address.  I also need payment before sending
	out your order.    

	6.  If you would like to view the shirt, I will have one in my office
	after Tuesday and at Solair this weekend.  Call my office first to 
	make sure I am in (DTN 297-7176).

	7.  If supply runs out, orders will be filled on a first come, first 
	serve basis, based on date of payment.

	NOTE:  I am selling these shirts at cost and probably lose some money. 
	In exchange be kind if I am a little slow at delivery. I have no 
	financial interest in the T-shirts and only doing this because so 
	many people have expressed an interest.

Brian

I was unable to go to the Ledges this past weekend.  I had minor, but funny 
problem that I had to take care of.  This gives people another week to place 
orders.  For more details see reply .40.  All current orders will be honored.
If you payed by check, the checks have not been cashed yet. 


Brian

FYI-  On Saturday I was insulating around some windows with spray foam 
insultation. The can leaked and I end up covered in urethane insulation.  The 
directions specifically say that there are solvents will not work on this stuff.
I ended up spending most of the day Sunday sanding the dried urethane off my 
stomach.

Went to the Ledges yesterday for a few hours.  Arrived about 10:30 AM and
there were already 10-15 people there, and by the time I had to leave, about
1:30) I'd say there were 40-50 people.  The water level was *much* lower than
this time last year.  I heard someone say that they were doing some work on
the dam and let water out to accomodate that.   A few people went for a swim
but the water was a bit cold for me.



Jim

    I went to the Ledges yesterday for the first time since early last
    year (good choice after hearing what Ben went through at the
    quarries!)  Anyway, the water level is so low that there is now a HUGE
    beach area, and you no longer have to walk through the woods to get
    there.  Of course, you can no longer dive off the cliff, but the
    expanded beach area makes it very worth giving that up (in my
    opinion)..  I still hate the drive up there (soooo long), but it's an
    incredibly beautiful and friendly place (although it's now relatively
    easy to remain secluded if you choose to), and well worth the time it
    takes.  It's also the only place in New England I know of where you 
    can boat and waterski on fresh water unencumbered by clothes.
    
    The dam is still being worked on, and I was told they will let the
    water down EVEN LOWER before they're done fixing it.  For those who
    haven't been there for awhile, it's almost like going to a new site!!
    
    Plenty of room for large groups now..
    
    Robin

    How was the water temperature?
    
    	--Neil

    COOOOLLD!  I was there on Sunday, on the way back from a bicycling trip
    in Proctorsville.  There were probably 50 or so people in the CO
    section (i.e. The Ledges), which was pretty good, considering the area
    wasn't really open.  (You had to park outside the gate.)  But only 2
    little kids (9 and 11?) braved the chilly water.
    
    There were a number of people who went out to an island formed by the
    lowered water level.  I had never seen this "Island" in the years I
    have been to the Ledges.  People out there in the buff were in plain
    view of the main textile beach.  But there was no apparent problem.
    
    With the temperatures predicted over the next week, the water should be
    "New England swimmable" (~60 degress F) by next weekend.
    
    Jack

  Carl

  I found the ledges to be a real fun place, but they could have
  used more laying out space when I went.  My girlfriend Amy and I
  may have a very large house on Lucy Vincent beach this summer ..
  Keep an eye out, we may be putting out the call for DECcie visitors!

  paul

 Is any of the beach area visible at the Ledges yet?





 Jim

Date: 09 Jul 94 11:20:17 EDT
From: Dennis Kirkpatrick <[email protected]>
To: BlindCopyReceiver:;@compuserve.com
Subject: Ledges, VT in Trouble

Ledges Site, Vermont - Problems
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Information has been received by the Naturist Society and Pilgrim Naturists of
Boston that indicates the LEDGES skinny-dipping site in the Wilmington, VT area
may be in serious trouble.  Reports suggest that there have been instances of
people strolling nude from the established nude-use areas into the normally
clothed lower picnic areas. Also, there have been instances of overt sexual
misconduct at both the hetero and gay sections.  These behaviors have been
viewed on both the shore and from passing boats.  Further, reports indicate that
Naturist/Nudist literature has been left on automobile windshields in an
apparent attempt at proselytizing for nude users.  None of these actions have
been welcome by the majority body of clothed users and complaints have been
issued to the property owners, the New England Power and Electric Company
(NEPCO).  In that this is private land owned by them it is possible that they
could conceivably close the Ledges without further interaction with Naturist
users, especially since there is no definable user group that can 'take charge'
and work with the power company to effect improvements and a truce.

It is important that this major 'live and let live' site which has been
tolerated for the Naturist option for decades be preserved.  'Free Beach
Etiquette' must be upheld and all users must take some time to educate those who
are not aware of acceptable norms and that improper behaviors could loose the
site for everyone.

Pilgrim Naturists of Boston is attempting to assist in this effort but the
distance between Boston and Vermont will be a factor in effectiveness.  Pilgrim
is sending out a letter advising it's own membership, and clubs throughout New
England and the NY/NJ area of the problem and is asking their assistance.
Included in the mailing is a flyer (2 per sheet) that can be reproduced at any
copy shop which can be handed out at the Ledges as an educational tool.  The
same flyer is generic enough that it can also be handed out at other sites as
well.  It offers a warning that the site may close unless things change, and the
well-known 'Free Beach Etiquette' rules of appropriate naturist behavior.

The most important thing that needs to be done is organization.  Altogether too
long have the users at the Ledges been lulled into complacency that an organized
effort is not needed.  Current factors indicate the opposite.  Pilgrim would be
happy to assist any individual(s) who may be interested in taking on this
project.

Copies of the aforementioned flyers are available for mailing out (a master for
you to reproduce) from PILGRIM NATURISTS, PO BOX 273, BOSTON, MA. 02132 /or/ you
can contact Dennis Kirkpatrick on-line at 76334,3010 on Compuserve or
[email protected] via the Internet.

--> Internet viewers:	Please scroll to other services on behalf of the
			organized Naturist movement.

DMK 7/9/94