Conference misery::feline

    Some vets I asked told me that cats could live quite some years very
    well within a lovely environment and good food. Try to support the
    cat's own psychlogoical resistence against this disease. The reason is
    a virus and the only chance to handle it is with self-owned strengths
    
    Ilona

    >  well within a lovely environment and good food
    
    Well, when he was in the hospital, I was roasting a chicken every other
    day and bringing it in for him. They couldn't get over how he devoured
    it (in addition to his regular cat food and EN diet).
    
    Deb

    It's similar to my siamese mixture when I got her one year ago (waiting
    for a new home in some kind of animal protection home), weighting 2
    kilos only and eating 1 kilo of normal cat food per day! Some vets
    assumed FIP some not, whatever, it doesn't interest me really. Minou
    had a lot of diarrhoe but learning in these note conferences I changed
    food to Science diat and Iams. Now she is 5 kilos, playing like a
    kitten, sleeping on my neck at night. I am always looking how she's
    feeling and I react immediately. 
    
    Before I had cats I was with a parrot, a cockatoo. The same, a disease
    originated by aspergillus niger, no medicine, no help. But giving her
    all waht she needed and more I had here 12 years!! And when she died
    she was very very old (about 80 years?).
    
    So never give up, see what the immune system is able to do!
    
    Good Luck!
    Ilona
    

    One of my neighbor's cats had FIP for literally years (I've forgotten
    how long.)  He died a number of years ago of the effects of FeLV.
    His "sibling" cat who coexisted with him for years
    after arriving as a kitten is still healthy.  I personally think
    that love and a supportive environment can sometimes work wonders
    with the immune system.  Hugs...
    

    The only food that my new kitten could tolerate in terms of it not
    producing diarrhea was dry WD;  it took about 8 days to
    kick in.  He also gets a vitamin suppliment pill which looks
    somewhat like Pounce and which he eats off his dish as though
    it were Pounce, since the dry WD is not nutritionally good enough
    for a kitten.  I would definitely ask the vet about what to do about
    the tapeworms.  Maybe Cornell (1-800-KITTYDR) could provide additional
    info on FIP in general.
    

    Deb...with my crew I have had to deal with FIV and FELV...but
    never FIP so I don't even consider myself anywhere near an expert.
    
    BUT..based on some old knowledge I had heard that there was NO
    true test to test for FIP.   The tests they do does detect
    a virus....but there are many viruses and one of them being
    FIP.    Does anyone have any more current knowledge on 
    FIP testing????   Did they do a titer test...because I heard
    those test cannot be trusted and only reflect something is
    wrong.
    
    Keep the faith....if you want to talk...I'm only in the
    next building.
    
    Sandy

    Sandy,
    
    the tests actually came back inconcussive on Mike and two others,
    negitive on Panther and actually positive on the rest. The vet spent a
    half hour on the phone with the manufacture that said "retest in 4 weeks 
    and if there the same result, send blood. We've heard of this before
    but never seen it." Lucky me. They did mention, though, that the test
    just indicates that the cat has been exposed; there is no way to tell
    if the cat is a carrier or not, of if he is actually having "active"
    FIP without an autopsy. A symptomatic diagnosis was made, and give
    Mike's background (feral), the combo of concurrent tapeworm treatment,
    infection, fevor and diarreah. No cat should ever be put down just
    because of a high titer.
    
    thanks,
    Deb

    Karen,
    
    thanks for the info. I'll give Cornell a call.
    
    My vet just got a new food called En (ENteritis formula); it is
    produced by Purina and is specifically for real bad cases of diarreah.
    It is nutritionally complete, but Mike prefers roast chicken. I'm
    giving him Nutra-Cal as well (a low-colume calorie/vitmin supplement).
    EN seems to have worked. He's eating like a piglet, but not gaining
    weight. My vet is planning on speaking to someone at Tufts & Angell about
    how to deal with the worms, which is what he thinks is causing the
    diarreaha which dehydrates the cat and causes the temp to go up. Talk
    about a vicious cycle. The vet is trying to get an "old time" drug that
    is an anti-fevor drug (rather than an anti-biotic). In the interm, when
    his temp ping-pongs, I'm bringing the temp down with fluids.
    
    One word of advice to everyone, though. You can save yourself a good
    amount of $$ in vet costs (and possibly your cat's life) if you know
    how to do some basic things (taking a temp, a pulse, giving sub-cutaneous
    shots and fluids). 
    
    Everyone, thanks for the encouraging words. I KNOW Mike is going to
    pull through!
    
    Deb

    Deb,
    
    About 4 years ago, my beloved Cassie was suddenly diagnosed with FIP.
    She was only 10 months old and I had adopted her at about 6 months.
    One day, I happened to notice she was lethargic.  Nothing more - just
    not herself.  I kept an eye on her over the next 24 hours and decided
    to call the vet.  He instructed me on how to take her temp, which 
    turned out to be very high.  I took her right in.  To make a long 
    story short, after spending 2 nights in the hospital and several tests,
    it was determined she had the wet form of FIP.  
    
    Dr. Feccia was wonderful.  Over the next week, he did everything he
    could to help her, but it was hopeless.  She failed very quickly
    (within days).  Her poor belly and chest cavity filled up so quickly
    it was amazing.  We then made the hardest decision of my life, but
    the best one for her.  In the end, she was so glassy-eyed and swollen,
    she didn't know even know me.  
    
    Mike may not be as bad as Cassie and if he has the dry FIP, his
    life span could be different.  Interestingly, Dr. Feccia told me
    Cassie contracted FIP from the womb - she was born with it.
    
    I agree - love him all you can and spend every day thanking God
    for the wonderful blessing you have.  Lots of kitty prayers are
    coming your way!
    
    Good luck,
    
    
    

    what is FIP?
    
    K.

    FIP = Feline Infectious Peritonitis, I think.
    

    FIP is Feline Infectious Peritonitis.  It's caused by a Coronavirus. 
    The test is for titers to the Coronavirus Antigens.  Unfortunately
    there are many different serotypes of Coronavirus & there isn't a
    specific test to the specific Coronavirus serotype that causes FIP, so 
    there is a great deal of question as to the value of the titer levels for 
    cats.  There are a great number of cats who have a positive titer to
    Coronavirus, but never get FIP, and there are just as many cats with a
    negative titer to Coronavirus, but get FIP.  
    
    In this case, your cat has been diagnosed with FIP, so the titer
    probably is only going to be another source of confirmation to the
    diagnosis.  FIP is pretty much a clinical diagnosis that depends on
    labwork other than the FIP titer test, so if your vet diagnosed FIP,
    you can be pretty confident that you're treating the right disease
    regardless of the titer.
    
    Here is some information from Ettinger's "Textbook of Veterinary
    Internal Medicine" on FIP treatment:
    
    "Treatment is largely palliative (fluid therapy and nutritional
    support).  Aspiration of effusion fluids may result in relief from
    dyspnea and may temporarily improve a cat's appetite and attitude. 
    Immunosuppressive doses of corticosteroids should be prescribed, along
    with broad-spectrum antibiotics.  Immunosuppressive drugs such as
    cyclophosphamide or melphalan have also been used.  At this time, there
    is no antiviral agent that is useful clinically."
    
    Is your cat taking immunosuppressive drugs?  If not, I wonder if having
    the parasites will disallow the use of immune suppression.  
    
    In regard to the hind end weakness your cat is experiencing, Ettinger 
    associates it with lesions in the CNS (brain or spinal cord).  
    
    I hope your cat does well with his treatments - with a caring owner like
    you to help give him a fighting chance, I'm sure he'll be one of the
    lucky ones.  Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
    
    
    
    

    Boy, this is a tough subject!  Post number .12 gave good information,
    but...  I would not go along with anything in print form about 
    FIP.  (the ways to help a cat are still good though!).
    
    The reason I say this,is if it is in print, it is out of date.
    Unless of course they are the papers from the International
    FIP Symposium! :'}  I happen to have a copy of them, short and
    long form.
    
    The bottom line on FIP.  
    1. it is a mutated enteric coronavirus.
    2. only a combination of tests along with symptoms
       can say if it is fip, final diagnosis on necropsy.
    3. animals can be sustained for a period of time, but it
       is ultimately fatal. Usually prednisone, fluids.
       (1 in a million survive type thing)
    4. kittens do NOT pick it up in the womb.
    
    If you have any questions, you can call!  244-7702
    Karen
       

    Hi Karen,
    
    Point well taken on out of date print.  But my Ettinger is a brand new
    edition this year, so it's current.  Plus the vets teaching my small
    animal med course just updated their syllabus to confirm the Ettinger
    material & also mentioned what you stated as well.  So, I agree - we
    should be careful to look at the source of any information, symposium
    material is great, but Ettinger is good too, it's a tried & true clinical 
    text that most vets put their trust in, so I feel ok quoting it.
    
    Regards,
    liz

    I took a coupld of days off to be with Mikey (and do some yard work).
    On Saturday, the vet changed his medication to cefatabs and gave him 
    Winstrol. Sunday morning I couldn't find him. He had jumped off my bed,
    opened the door (little ****) walked down stais and jumped onto the
    couch!! He is walking much better, but we still have a problem of the
    fevor bouncing up and down (lucklily, we are talking low grade). Also,
    his appitite has changed. I had been giving him 1/2 twice a day. Now,
    he would prefer 1/4 can 4 times a day. So, it is the same quanity, but
    he wants it in smaller volumes at a time. Of course, if I coume near
    him with chicken, he could inhale the entire bird. ALso, he seems to be
    holding his fluids pretty well. 
    
    But, I'm still worried.
    
    Deb

    Re: 1/4 can 4 times a day
    
    Sounds like he is training you to be at his beck and call :-)
    

    I suspect that he considers me "trained". (I got a real evil look when
    I left for work this morning.
    
    Deb

    Poor Mikael can't seem to catch a break. He appraently fell and hurt
    himself. (I had laid out the chaise lounge cushion in front of the
    couch and he fell off the couch in the one  fut section that didn't
    have the cushion). He can move his arms, legs and head, but can't push
    himself up. Also, he can only move about 3 inches of his tail (from the
    base of the tail toward the tip). I brought him to the vet last night
    and he has a spinal cord injury. This could be related to the FIP, but
    since it coincided with the fall he is on prednosone just incase it might
    reduce some injury swelling and maybe make the tail come back to life.
    This morning, the tail was warmer tan it was last nigt, and he seemed
    to have feeling about 5 inches down. (He still has full bladder control
    and other than not being able to walk, is isn't in any real pain, just
    sore on a couple of spots from the fall.)
    
    Basicly, I was told the tail seems dead. Due to his FIP, I don't know
    if they can operate. Does anyone know if it WILL become gangrenous?
    How can I prevent gangrene? Should I risk operating? He is doing
    beautifully otherwise. 
    
    Deb

    Poor Mikey.  Just my layperson's opinion, but I would hesitate
    to operate on the tail now if it shows signs of coming back, which
    it seems to be doing.  I thought in injuries of that sort, some
    recovery was possible as the swelling went down because the swelling
    might be compressing nerves or something.  My neighbor's cat, who
    was hit by a car, slowly recovered the use of his back area over
    several months.  On the other hand, did the vet say there was a
    danger in waiting?  Big hugs to Mikey.
    

    Deb...When Capone got hit by a car he had no feeling in his
    tail and it just hung.   AFter a few weeks...the tail did start
    to get gangrene and we had to have it removed completely.  In
    capone's case...no blood was even getting to the tail so it
    was completely dead.    I have had other cats with injuries to
    the tail..and after a month or so the tail started having movement
    and came back to normal.
    
    I have never heard the FIP causes some of these symptoms.  I always
    thought some of the symptoms were swollen belly etc......
    
    Sandy 

    Karen, 
    The info about your neighbor's cat is encouraging.
    
    Even though we were at the vet for 3 hours, I was too stunned to ask
    about possible surgery. I spoke to the vet a couple of minutes ago to
    give him an update. Basicly, this morning Mikey's tail seemed to have
    some senasation for about 5 " rather than the 3 inches it had last
    night, and it seems warm now. The vet said these were good signs, and
    that he is not now as concerned about gangrene. I have to call with an
    update everyday and we will reevaluate him in a few days depending on
    how he is doing. Hopefully we won't need to amputate, but at least 
    I now know the signs of gangrene, and know what to watch for. If it
    does turn gangrenous, we will evalute his condition and then make a
    decision on weather to risk it on not.
    
    Sandy,
    FIP doesn't always cause a swollen belly; MIkey's is kind of doughy but
    not swollen. However, several forms of paralysis are signs of FIP, as
    FIP can cause swelling of the spinal cord (a reason that an
    anti-inflamitory like prednosone is often prescribed). Was Capone's
    tail cold ? Mike's was but this morning it felt warm, which I guess
    means blood is getting to it. I read these vet books and real all about
    paralysis, and think, oh my good ness, this is his problem. Thing is,
    though,  his arms and legs aren't paralyzied, he can move them (and kick)
    pretty well. He did have some balance problems, though, which were
    worse when he was running a fevor. 
    
    Seems like this guy can't win. He kicks the diarreaha, fevor and
    weakness problems, which usually do in most FIP cats, only to take a
    fall and cause him to be unable to stand or lift himself. However, I've
    decided we are going to lick this problem too!
    
    Deb

    Mikey lost his battle at 10 minutes to midnight on Saturday night. I
    think that he had a heart attack or a stroke. I'll have autopsy results
    tomorrow. 
    He had been acting great, and during the week his appitite was soaring; he
    had been getting 1/2 can of food twice a day, plus a 1/4 chicken. Last
    week he was eating 1/2 and 1full can a day in addition to the chicken.
    His coat was beautiful he was happy, purring and everything. I went to
    the vet Saturday afternoon to get his meds filled, and was telling them
    how well Mike was doing. At supper time, he didn't seem like his
    ravenous self (he ate all his food, but wasn't as excited about it). I
    noticed his gums were white, and I was afraid he was anemic. Turns out
    he was shocky. And he seemed a bit cold. To make a long story short, at
    10:30, he started breathing hard, occasionally panting. Giving him
    water stopped the panting almost immediatly. Then at about 11:45, he
    acted like he had a real intense pain and started panting. I gave him a
    little more water. It happened again at 11:50, and this time he passed
    away. I was holding his paw at the time.
    
    This cat reminded me so much of my late cat Argus in mannerisms,
    attitude and style. I know he had a rough life before I adopted him,
    and it doesn't seem fair that he couldn't seem to catch a break. They
    estimated that he is probably about 13 years. old.
    
    Deb

   Deb,

   I'm so sorry - I've added Mikey to the SLM listing...........

   my sympathies,
   Debbi

    I'm so sorry about Mikey.  I'm glad he had a chance to share
    his life with you.  I know how hard it is to rescue a kitty
    from a hard life (my Tommy) and then have a short time with them.
    Mikey is waiting at the rainbow bridge,
    
    Karen
    

    We send our sympathies to you. How wonderful Mikey had someone to love
    him at last.
    
    Sari and the Colonel
    

    Deb...my heart is with you, Mikey and the rest of your
    furry family.   The symptoms do sound like he went into
    cardiac arrest...   
    
    You gave Mikey a life he wouldn't have known...he went away
    knowing what it was truly like being loved and cared for
    by humans.   
    
    Sandy

    Deb,
    
         I am so sorry to read of Mikey's passing.  He had a wonderful life
    with you, and he'll be waiting at the Bridge.
    
    					- Andrea

    Deb,
    
    I'm so sorry about Mikey's passing.  You were a good friend to him and
    did everything possible for him.  
    
    Faith
    

    Thank you, everyone. 
    I spoke with the vet, and he did indeed have FIP. They did not find as
    much fluid in the body as one would have expected, and they don't
    really know if it was a dry or a wet FIP as a result. He had spiked a
    fever and a swollen eye problem a couple of weeks ago, which I was told
    look like something you see at the very end stages of FIP. However,
    they didn't see much fluid in the abdomen or the lungs. They noticed
    white flecks on the liver which are commonly seen in FIP cats. Since
    I wanted his body presentable for burial, they didn't go looking for
    spinal cord and brain tumors. They were surprised though, that he
    didn't look debilitated; he did have a good appetite right to the end.
    They didn't see any tumors, ad the only other remarkable thing was that
    he seemed to be developing a stomach ulcer, but it was *just* begining
    to develop, and wasn't yet affecting me.
    
    Based on my description of what happened at the end, the vet thinks that
    he may indeed have had a heart attack (considering he has been on anabolic
    steroids for about 3 months, this isn't a surprise).
    
    I've gone though this so often but it never gets any easier, so your
    expressions of sympathy are very much appreciated.
    
    thanks again,
    Deb

Much sorrow Deb. my heart is with you.

Jim

    Deb,
    
    I too am sorry that you both lost the battle.  His
    pain is over and yours has started.  OUr thoughts
    are with you...
    Karen