Conference misery::feline

    Is it the 'he' you've caught? How old are they? He could be marking
    territory, we have a neutered tom who still goes occasionally when he
    feels like it, but he knows its wrong. I generally rub his nose in it
    if I manage to catch him (ugh!), but its only worth doing if the act is
    fresh in his mind. We have a cat flap so there's no problem with
    catlit. You could leave some old lit in the tray when you change it, just 
    so it smells right. Perhaps a longer confinement in the room with the
    tray (a week?).
    
    Hopefully, they (he?) will grow out of it (but then again...(-: )
    
    Andy 

    Yes, it is the "he" I've caught so far but I've seen her ready to go
    where he's gone!  He is 10 weeks old and she is 8 weeks old.  I
    wondered if he was marking but didn't know the age it starts...
    
    I feel terrible leaving them in the room for an entire night and then
    the day (after I let them out while I get ready in the a.m.) but maybe
    more time is needed...although they seem to love the room.  I have
    boxes and paper bags galore, kitty toys, scratching posts, etc. in
    there...they go in on their own will all the time!
    
    Hopefully they'll grow out of it??!
    

    I feel 8 weeks old is too young to start marking his territory...
    so I would believe it is either an infection or he might still be
    in a training mode.
    
    Do you have any history on him???  Was he fully litterbox trained
    prior to adopting him?  What type of litter did they use??  His your
    box to big/small?  Could he be excited while playing...and forget
    where the box is??  Has he been to the vet for a checkup??
    
    I do agree that keeping him/her in a small confined area with food,
    litter, toys, beds would be best so atleast you can monitor his
    behavior.  
    
    Sandy
    
    
         
    

    Thanks.  I think he's too young also.  He did visit the vet about 1 1/2
    weeks ago and got a clean bill of health.  I don't know what his past
    history was...he was adopted from the Lowell Humane Society from a
    kennel of a lot of other kittens - I think they used bottom shelf
    litter - 
    
    the strange part was that he used his box faithfully for the first week
    I had him...
    
    I guess another visit to the vet is in order...
    
    

    First of all both kittens are MUCH to young to be marking territory! 
    (yes both sexes can do this, yuch!)
    
    More than likely, if you are letting them have too big an area to be
    free in for their age, this is the cause.  They are still very young
    kittens, you have to bear this in mind, they have not had a good amount
    of time with the mom to become acclimated to the "world".  Kittens can
    learn to use the box at only several weeks of age, yet when away from
    it either they can't "hold it" til they get to the box or are not
    mature enough to know they need to do this.  Also, instinct has not
    completely set in yet to tell them "go someplace safe".  Again the
    maturity thing!  
    
    The best thing for you to do at this point is to confine them to a
    smaller room with perhaps a couple of boxes placed at opposite sides of
    the room or at least where they can easily see them.  After about a you
    can cut back to one box.  Start to let them out into the larger rooms
    "after" they have gone and again leave several small boxes about. 
    Eventually as they physically mature along with the mind, you shouldn't
    have any problems.  It is a new place to them and they are just little
    things.:^)
    
    read that as :at about a *week*! oops!
    karen

    Thanks for the info.  It does sound like a game plan.  I'll get another
    box tonight and start right away!
    
    Tricia

    Our young male Merlin had a period of a couple of months around the
    age of 3-5 months when he would forget himself in both modes all over
    the house. He had previously used the litter boxes without fail. I
    think it was a matter of maturity, and after that time, he hasn't
    goofed at all. It sure drives you crazy while its going on, however.
    Sometimes he would leave a solid present underneath a floormat or
    under folded clothes on the bed ! I don't know how he managed it, but he
    obviously was trying to cover up his indiscretion. We had some
    interesting "treasure hunts" (I can smell it, now where IS it).
    
    Anne

    I agree completely with Karen on this.  Having raised my fair share of
    Birman kittens, I know that when they hit about 7 weeks of age they are
    just too busy to be bothered with remembering they are litter box
    trained. :')  There is too much of the world to see, and to much to do. 
    If you give them a large area to run around in, they are not going to
    remember to go find the litter box when it is needed.  This is why I
    usually confine my kittens from the ages of 7 weeks to about 12 weeks
    (some longer depending on how they are doing).
    
    Jo

    Well, I feel much better reading all of your notes.  I guess I've just
    been lucky in the past.  I've had many kittens and this is the first
    time I've ever had litterbox problems.  
    
    Reading your notes certainly relieves me.
    
    Thanks!

    Your welcome!  This is the stage that we affectionately call the 
    PeeHead or PooHead stage.  Just weather the storm and do a lot of
    laundry 8^D  An aside, a cheap shower curtain on the bed covered by a
    sheet can save mucho wear and tear on your comforter!  It also helps
    prevent the damp foot syndrome!
    K
    we've all been there

    It can also help to remind them to go to the box after each meal that
    they eat, at least while you're home anyway.  After they eat, pick each
    one up and pat them and praise them and bring them right to the box.
    Talk nice and just generally make it a positive experience.  Praise
    them after their deed is done.  I have done this on several occassions
    not only with kittens, but with older cats who for various reasons
    arent as interested in walking to the box anymore.
    
    denise

    My two cats used to be the same at that age. They were having so much
    fun that they used to forget to go until it was too late (just like
    children!). The main offender was Rosie, the female kitten. Both cats
    now use their litter trays or go outside. I still have the odd accident
    with Rosie (she uses her littertray, certainly, but balances right on
    the edge and sends a stream across the floor!), but this happens very
    rarely now.

    YAY!  We made it through one night so far.  From when I
    got home last night to when I put them in their room for the night
    there were no mistakes!  I did get another litterbox and put it
    downstairs and it seemed to help.  They used it several times, each
    time with mom watching and praising during and after!
    
    I felt strange not carrying around a bucket and sponge all night!
    
    One night down, forever more to go!

    And when I finally decide to let them back in my bedroom I will
    definitely use a shower curtain!
                            

    Hi Trish...
    
    If the rpoblem doesn't go away completely, try chenging the
    litter....that's what I had to do when my kittens were every once in a
    while going on my bed....I also invested in those plastic mattress
    covers to go over the mattress in case they do go on the bed.  The
    worst that will happen is that they wreck the comforter and I can clean
    that....
    
    Good luck....
    
    Michele

    Thanks Michele.  So far - so good.  Since I put an additional litter
    box down stairs he has been fine.  They both prefer the new box ( don't
    have to climb the stairs as much!) so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. 
    I still haven't let them in my bedroom yet and thats driving me crazy -
    as well as them.  They are dying to get in and I'd love to let them
    sleep with me.
    
    When I do let them in, I will definitely get a plastic mattress cover
    AND use an old comforter for a while!
    
    Tricia
    

	Not quite kitten problems, but I have a problem with Chalkie. (He's
	just under a year old).

	The day before yesterday he woke me up, rushing everywhere and 
	scratching, and meowing more than normal. I got up to check he was 
	just playing, he looked fine.

	I went back to bed for 10 minutes, and when I got up he had pooped
	on my rug in the lounge. (I know, I should have listened!  :-)  )

	I have now put a litterbox down, and he's using that.


	My problem is I want him to go outside.

	I first had Chalkie in September, as a stray (I thought) who followed
	us home. For the first 3 weeks he was in a room with a litter tray.
	I then let him mix with the other two cats, showed him the catflap, 
	and moved the litter tray downstairs.

	Immediately he started going outside, and never used the tray again. 
	After two weeks of a clean litter tray. I removed ot altogether, and
	never had a problem.
	    
	His owner came to claim him after 2 and a bit months, he went home to 
	a house with no catflap, but let in and out. If he was out after 
	9.00pm, he had to stay out all night (probably why he followed us home 
	at midnight!) he was back home for 6 weeks.

	The woman who had him can't look after him anymore, so we have him back,
	that was last weekend.

	
	I realise now that he won't use the catflap to go outside, but he will
	use it to come back in. He only goes outside if I open the door.
	He will poop outside if I let him out.

	I want him to go outside by himself like he used to. He does enjoy 
	himself out there.

	I think he's afraid to go outside without me opening the door, incase 
	I'm not there to let him back in (even though I don't open the door for
	him to come in, he uses the flap).

	Any suggestions to get him using the flap to go out, I'm positive if
	I can do this, I won't need the liter tray any more.
	
	I am torn betwen leaving it, and it'll sort itself out, and buliding
	up the behavior of using the litter tray, which I will have to then
	try and break.
	
	Any help greatfully received.

	Heather

    I had this trouble with Rosie. She used to sit by the catflap and
    patiently wait for me to open it for her. I was under the impression
    that she didn't know how to use it, although she came in easily enough.
    Then I caught her outside. Either she knew all along, but wanted me to
    wait on her, or she saw Jimmy going out and finally cottoned on. I
    started to ignore her when she was sitting by the flap and eventually
    she just started going out without bothering to wait. 
    Perhaps it might help if you prop the flap open for a couple of days,
    just to give him the idea for it and then open the cat-flap for him, not 
    the door. He sounds like a bright little thing and I'm sure he'll soon
    learn.
    
    Regarding the litter tray, well I still have one, just for emergencies
    as I don't like my cats going out at night. However, neither cat uses
    it much during the day so I'd just let it go for now to avoid messes
    until he's caught on about the catflap. If you find he still wants to
    use it, gradually move it nearer to the door, then outside as you would
    when training a kitten.

    By the way, I had no problems with Jimmy. 
    
    I left him in the kitchen, went outside and dangled a piece of ham
    tantalizingly in front of the cat flap - he'd have knocked the door
    down if necessary!
    
    Once I'd got him out, I went inside and did the same with another slice
    of ham.
    
    No trouble! 
    
    Perhaps you could try the same and see if that works.

    I'm not sure how cold it is where you are...but my cats normally
    do their "thing" outside...but I have noticed all of them have
    been using the boxes lately.  I'm not sure if it is the cold..or
    the fact we're buried in snow/ice and they can't find a convenient
    place to go outside.
    
    Or...it could be one time he went through the door and met up with
    another cat standing on the other side.  Maybe he is a bit nervous now.
    
    Sandy

    Heather,
    
     I had a similar problem with my kitties. I finally figured out it was
    the style of cat flap I was using. They could go out no problem, but
    had trouble getting back in. It took me a while to figure it out, but I
    finally saw them trying to get in and figured it out. Going out, they
    pushed the very bottom of the door, and it opened, but coming in, they
    needed to push a little higher up to push the inside of the door in.
    Dull bulbs that they were, they couldn't figure this out, and I finally
    removed the outside portion of the door, so it swings freely. (inside
    the porch so no problem). 
    
     Welll, they had already decided that the door only went one way, and
    wouldn't even TRY to get in! I finally just took and pushed them
    through a few times back and forth, and they got the hang of it. I
    didn't open it for them, just pushed them thriugh whenever I saw them
    standing there.
    
     Maybe if you open the cat flap instead of the door for a while to let
    him out, he'll start to get the hang of it, and maybe push him through
    a few times, so that his own body parts are pushing it open? Worked for
    me!
    
     BTW, I got a second flap, and left it intact, and my dummies had no
    problem with it! Go figure! ;-) Hope this helps!
    
    Love,
    
     Yonee (who has a cat box on the porch right now, because of the cold
            weather. The 'kids' were using the wood pile! 8-} )

	Thanks for all the suggestions.

	I've been holding the catflap open for Chalkie this weekend, and he goes
	out with no trouble if I hold the flap. He comes in by himself with no 
	trouble either, without having to hold it for him.

	I just can't get him to use the flap by himself to go out.

	Well, he's stopped using the litter tray to poop in, but still uses it
	to wee in.....which is a good step forwards.

	The catflap is plexiglass, so he can see through it. And the weather 
	isn't cold enough to cause problems - wet maybe, but that doesn't seem
	to bother them. In fact, they like to go out and dig, then come in 
	with muddy paws and make pretty paw patterns all over the kitchen floor!

	I'll try the ham trick tonight. It could be that Cider was sitting
	the other side one day, and had a go at him. Cider seems to have no
	trouble with him in the house, but seems to protect the territory 
	outside with a bit of hissing.

	Thanks for the ideas,
	Heather

    
    
      I need help.  we picked up 2 new kittens (sisters) on Monday. They're
    absolutely adorable and we both fell in love with them immediately. 
    Now the problem.  One of them has been peeing but not in the litterbox.
    Sometimes she does go in there but twice on Tuesday night she went on
    the couch, one beside where I usually sit and then once when I got up,
    she actually went where I sit (what a lovely surprise?)  Last night
    my husband and I went to bed and the kittens were playing all over us,
    then they jumped aff and I felt a nice warm spot leaking on to me!!
    Right on my legs.  I know I made a mistake (after reading previous
    notes) cause I put her nose in it and then put her in the box.  she was
    using it this morning, but with this being a new house with new carpets
    I have to wonder if she's gone anywhere else in the house.  I'm going
    to move their food away from their box (its right next to it now) but
    does anyone else have any ideas?  I would hate to have to get rid of
    them cuase I'm attached already, but I can't see having my new carpets 
    wrecked, you know?
    
    Any ideas, please let me know, Thanks Debbie
    
    
    

    I know what you're going through - my two kittens did the same thing
    when we first let them get the run of the house.
    
    First off, do you have other cats?  If so, you may want to think about
    adding an additional litterbox.  It may get dirty too quickly for
    some kitten's tastes.  I found that when I added a second litterbox
    and made extra sure it was scooped and kept very clean, the peeing
    outside the box stopped.
    
    Another suggestion from Sandy Merritt was that when they're playing
    and having fun, sometimes they "forget" they have to go, and have
    an accident.  Make the litterbox accessible to where they are most
    of the time.  You might want to start out with several in different
    areas (I know - it's a pain in the butt - but so is cleaning up pee!)
    
    Regarding new carpeting - Nature's Miracle has been a blessing for
    taking out stains and smells.  Pick up a bottle at your nearest pet
    supply store.  It takes out stains and smells in only 5 minutes.
    
    Good luck!
    Pam

    How old are the kittens?  I had to deal with the problem a long time
    ago and found success with confining the cat to an area where the box
    was until it got used to using only the litter box.  Also, I agree that
    keeping the box scooped is very important.
    
    If the kitten was playing and just started to urinate on you, I wonder
    if there might be a physical problem that the vet should check out.
    

    another thing; are you using a kitten size box (low "walls")? If you
    are using a regular size litter box, the kittens might have a hard time
    getting in (think about what might happen if your bladder was full and
    you had to jump in order to releive yourself). And remember, their
    bladders are tiny at that age.
    
    Deb