Conference misery::feline

    A puncture wound could be as small as that left behind by
    a common pin.  Debris or the tip of whatever punctured the
    skin sometimes get's left behind, causing the lump to form,
    as the body keeps sending "stuff" to fight the foreign object.
    
    Only the Doc can find out what this lump actually is....

    Karren, check out MUTTON::FELINE_V1.  There's a few notes on lumps.
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                       Meower Power is Valuing Differences
Created:  9-FEB-1986 06:45         5089 topics        Updated: 31-JAN-1992 18:01
                     -< Feline is moving - details soon. >-
 Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   212   TONTO::EARLY         6-FEB-1986    17  Unsnarling cat fur_clumps
   916  ITSBIG::VACCARI      24-NOV-1987    23  Lumps - skin condition?
  1122  UPBEAT::CGRAY        17-FEB-1988     6  Plump Pussycat
  1601  UBOHUB::DAVIES_A      1-AUG-1988     6  LUMPS?
  1648   RHETT::WRIGHT       11-AUG-1988     6  Tumor/lump under skin..HELP!
  2539  OTOO01::PAQUIN        5-JUN-1989     4  Ayla as a lump????
  4098   AIMHI::UPTON        22-OCT-1990    21  Large lump on side???
  4828   KAOFS::J_GREGOIRE    1-AUG-1991     4  lump on cage ribs

    I would certainly have it removed as soon as possible, for two reasons:
    If it is cancerous, the sooner it's removed, the better his chances. 
    If it isn't cancer, your mind will be at rest sooner.  Please let
    us know what happens.
    

    Karen....so happy you came out from behind the notes...and we'll all
    be waiting for your formal introduction on Merlin and yourself!!!
    
    Kitty prayers coming your way...and try not to panic.  Not all lumps
    are cancerous....and many are caused from cat fights or shots (has he
    had shots recently) and can disolved themselves.  It's best to deal
    with it right away.....
    
    Please keep us posted...Merlin sounds like a sweatheart that won
    your heart immediately!!
    
    Sandy

    
    Make out if it is not only a scar, a lumped scar. But let the vet say
    the last word! I vote for surgery. Listen to your vet. Purrhaps consult
    another vet, too, for being safe. I woud let it remove immediately. And
    if the vets say surgery, do it. As it is not deep, it will not be a
    suffering for Merlin, an easy ambulant thing where you can take him
    home after it immediately (I think so, at us in Hungary it is so).
    
    Paws crossed, purrs and keep us posted.
    
    Nat

    I would at least consult with another vet, just to confirm that there
    aren't any other options or to confirm that surgery is the best option.  
    If a doctor recommended that you undergo surgery, you would get a second 
    opinion.  Why not give your cat the same consideration?  It's as easy
    as a phone call to get another opinion in this case.
    
    In any case, my thoughts and prayers are with you and Merlin.
    
                ,
              ,/(       
       ,_____/   `.     |*|  Michelle  |*|
      /         /-'
     /\(  )_'  )   
     \ '----'--"    
      `--'            
    

 Thank you to everyone who replied to my initial note. 

 I went back to the former FELINE note (thank you Cheryl for the pointer) and 
 read everything you indicated. I called to find out more about the rabies 
 shot Merlin got at the Rabies Clinic sponsored by the Humane Society on 12/19.
 I had told my vet at our visit that Merlin was vaccinated for rabies in Dec. 

 Since I didn't watch to see where the needle was injected, we were unable to
 confirm that the lump is connected with the vaccination. However, if he did
 get his shot at that point (the front of his thigh) it was not given in the
 "right" spot...which is a possibility.

 Since Merlin is only 5 mos. old, my vet said it's not critical. Cats don't
 usually develop cancers at such a young age. I decided to do a "wait-and-see"
 on the lump. I'm checking it daily and I feel it's getting smaller. According
 to what I've read, if this lump is connected to the rabies vaccine, it will
 take as long to go away as it did to form -- about three weeks.

 Merlin is fine. In fact he's more than fine. He's crazy, but that's another
 story! His appetite, attitude and behavior haven't changed in the least. He's 
 as energetic as ever, so I will continue to monitor the lump and keep in touch
 if anything should change. Thank you all for your support and crossed paws.

 -Karren

    
    I found 3 lumps on Callie (spayed Exotic Shorthair) about 2 weeks ago.
    Given their location (around her left nipple and down under her arm)
    I assumed it may have had something to do with her lymph nodes.  I
    brought her in on Saturday and we discovered that the "lumps" were
    actually milk.  Rhonda aspirated the fluid and we sent it off to UC
    Davis.  They determined that there were no abnormal cells in the fluid,
    but did recommend a biopsy of the surrounding tissue.  I am picking her
    up in about an hour.  She tolerated the anesthesia well and hopefully
    we will have preliminary results back this evening.  As of yet no one
    has a theory as to why she is producing milk (she was spayed back in
    July).  If there is a problem with the surrounding tissue she may have
    to undergo a radical mastectomy.
    

    We will keep Callie in our thoughts.
    
    Keep us posted.
    
    -Roe and the boys
    

    I'm thinking of you both also.
    

    I'll keep my fingers crossed for you both.  (I'll have the kids cross
    their paws).  
    
    Steffi

    
    I wanted to follow up on the lumps that I found on Callie.  Per the
    usual, it is a strange situation.  As it turns out the "lumps" were
    milk (one has to keep in mind that she has been spayed since july).
    We aspirated the fluid and sent it to UC Davis.  There were no abnormal
    cells seen but they highly recommended that a biopsy be done on the
    surrounding tissue.  The biopsy was done and the pathology came back
    negative, but "mixed cells" were seen and she has been diagnosed as 
    having mastitis.  She has been on amoxi and will finish the run today.
    
    As an aside, 2 vets consulted on the biopsy issue.  In their previous
    experiences they saw that in many instances any lumps that were found
    were immediately removed (in this case it would have been a radical
    mastectomy) without knowing until after the procedure was completed
    the outcome of the pathology.  Although it was an added expense ($277)
    I certainly appreciate their conservative approach to the situation.
    
    My personal feeling is that there is something systemic going on here.
    Why would a spayed female produce milk in the first place?  Seems to
    me there is a hormonal problem.  She was not spayed under the optimal
    circumstances.  The kittens were being weaned and she was in heat.  I
    am wondering if they could have "missed" something.  My vet is on
    vacation so I'll will speak to her when she gets back.  I am assuming
    that we would do a hormone level check to rule out that possibility.
    
    

    Hmm, sounds weird, Marlene.  I have heard of mastitis in cats but not
    spayed ones!
    
    Keep us posted on what the vet has to say.
    

    
    Thanks for the sanity check, Roe.  Between the mastitis, the colitis
    and the HCM, I sometimes think I don't know whcih way is up! :'D
    
    
    

 Merlin's lump is completely gone. I talked with my vet on the phone the 
 day after Merlin was scheduled to have surgery and asked him why he hadn't 
 associated the lump with the rabies vaccine. His answer was that *if* the
 lump was indeed from the rabies vaccine, then he was vaccinated in the WRONG
 place. Since rabies vaccines are given (by him) at the back of the thigh he
 felt it must be some sort of tumor and ought to come out. 

 I stood in line with all the other Nashu-ites that cold (brutally so) morning
 in December for the Huame Society-sponsored Rabies Clinic. I really didn't 
 look where the needle went in, but my son said he watched and the lump was right 
 at the spot where she put the needle. 

 I'm glad I didn't spend the $200 for the surgery without first waiting to 
 be more certain about the lump. The rabies shot ($7.00) had a $207 potential! 
 Makes me wonder about the Humane Society. I went to them to save on an office 
 visit/vaccine charge. I guess I learned something about trying to "save".

 Merlin is fine...getting taller and feistier. I found telltale paw prints on 
 the kitchen counter and double stick tape isn't a deterrent!  :o) 

 Thank you all for your notes and concern. Now back to our regularly scheduled 
 program...Karren
 

    Hi Karren,
    
     Great news about the lump! I know htis is probably obvious, but I
    think if the rabies shot was given subcutaneously (under the skin) and
    not intramuscular, (in the muscle itself) that it may be wise to get
    the shot done again. I have heard that they are not effective if not
    doen in the muscle. Can anyone else shed light on this? 
    
     Love,
    
     Yonee

    great news.  I second the comment about asking the vet about the
    goodness of the shot, since it was apparently in the wrong place.
    (If it needs to be redone, an informational call to teh people who
    ran the free/low cost shot thing would seem in order.
    

    The location and type of rabies shot given (intramuscular versus sub-q)
    depends on the brand of the vaccine used.  If the vet was using Rabvac,
    then it is supposed to be given sub-q.  
    
    Jo

    re: subq vs IM - my vet uses the subq version for cats that are
    difficult to vaccinate (i.e. my cat Smokey, who has to be netted to get
    any shots).  A call to the clinic could verify they were using the
    appropriate vaccine to go subq.
    
    re: location  - my vet said that shot location may also depend on where
    the vet went to school.  My vets give subq shots generally along the
    back, and IM shots into the muscle pads along the side of the lower back or
    into the thigh.  However, I took my family's cat to a vet where they
    live (900 miles from here), and that vet gave the subq shots just
    behind the neck.
    
    It's good that you waited on the lump and saved Merlin from the
    surgery, but I understand your vet recommending the lump come out.  My
    Smokey had a little lump a couple of months ago, and my vet said cats
    have a high malignancy rate in lumps, and he recommends getting them
    out.  Luckily, Smokey's was just a little lump of fat.  (Actually, that
    describes her whole body - I asked the vet to liposuction Smokey while
    she was out, but the vet nixed that idea.  Oh well.)
    
    Sue B + Fat Smokey, Spike, Trouble & Peanut

 The rabies shot was subcutaneous. I asked about that before we went in.
 I also asked whether or not it was a "live" virus. All the reading I've 
 done here has alerted me to things I would not have thought to ask about 
 before!

 Merlin's lump formed right on the muscle surface where the needle went into 
 his thigh muscle. This is why my vet was so concerned (me too) since the lump 
 felt like it was attached to the muscle.

 -Karren

Exactly how long did it take for the lump to disappear?  My daughter noticed
a lump on my Chester's neck one day.  I took him to the vets, and he wasn't
sure what it was, but that it could be a reaction to the vaccination (he had
had his shots about two weeks before we noticed the lump).  The vet said
let's wait a couple of months (months? yes, months) to see if it goes away.
Chester doesn't seem to mind having the lump poked at, but it is quite hard
and seems to consist of several sub-q nodules.

-Patrick

 > Exactly how long did it take for the lump to disappear?

 I first noticed the lump about two weeks after his injection. I would say it
 took about three to four weeks for it to go away completely. It slowly shrank
 in size until it was finally gone. From what I read here in FELINE, it takes
 about as long fro the lump to go away as it did for it to appear.

 -K

It can take several weeks for a shot nodule to disappear.  I seems that this 
is exactly what this was.  When we have shots given to the cats and they 
will be going to a show, our vet gives an IM shot instead.  

As for the milk situation.  It is possible that some of the tissue has 
remained from the ovaries/whathaveyou. This can be enough to secrete 
hormones to trigger what you have described.  It could have been an 
incomplete hysterectomy. Perhaps not the vets fault if she was in a 
different physical state from having babies/nursing.  

Poor kitties!
Karen