Conference misery::feline

if the owner of the dogs will not restrain, then you have only two choices:

	1) call the local dog-officer (or whatever) and complain that
	   two vicious dogs are running loose.  You may get some response,
	   but you risk facing the wrath of the dog owner - possible damge
	   to your property, or a determined effort by the person to hurt
	   you or your cat.  It can be very dangerous to anger a neighbor.
	   The dogs will probably behave perfectly when the dog officer is
	   there too, so you will not have a leg to stand on.

	2) keep you cat restrained so that the dogs cannot reach him.

If you cannot bring yourself to restrain the cat indoor-only...then you should
try and find him a home where his chance for survival is better.  The dogs
will eventually get him - and I cannot think of a more miserable way to die
than this.

    And if you do not want to keep your kitty indoors...build him
    an enclosed outdoor area where he can still enjoy the fresh air..
    but will be safe from dogs/cars/kids etc.
    
    Actually we do have a leash law in our city...but it is barely
    enforced and we still have dogs running loose...so a leash law is not
    always the answer.
    
    There is really not much you can do...  
    
    Sandy

    Reminds me of when a neighbor of ours opened our door and let his
    terrier in our apartment.  This terrier was known for killing
    squirrels, coons, and, yes, cats.  Tiki (being almost as big as the
    terrier) stood right up to the dog, and it took my husband and I
    everything we had to get between the 2, push the dog (and neighbor) OUT
    of our apartment, and calm Tiki down.  (No one was hurt - the dog was
    surprised by an adversary that didn't run or cower.)
    
    Dog people are OK...but Anti-Cat people are HORRIBLE!  I vote with
    calling with the complaint.  If the dog officer needs proof, show poor
    little Chris - that should be proof enough.  I also agree with what
    Sandy said in .2 re: outdoor pen.
    
    K.C.

    Rosemary -
    
    I would definitely call the dog officer and/or the police.  If your
    neighbor's dog chases your cats, when will it start chasing the
    neighborhood children?  I would present it this way to the authorities
    if you choose to call them since they might not be as concerned with
    cats as children.  (Sorry to say that, but there are some people out
    there that feel this way.)  Also, does your town have a leash law and
    what is it?  Are you neighbor's in violation?
    
    Good luck with this and until it's resolved, you might want to keep
    Chris inside (he'll probably have to be inside anyway while healing
    from his wounds).
    
    Mary
    

    Rosemary, 

    I agree with the previous comment - call the Dog Officer every time the
    dog steps foot in your yard.  The Dog Officer (or dog catcher) will get
    tired of all the phone calls and will hopefully do something to put an
    end to your calling.

    Were there any witnesses to this incident?  I'd hand the neighbor the
    vets bill and tell him to pay it since his dog clearly caused the
    damage!

    I wasn't going to suggest this, but the more I thought
    about it....
    
    Report the dogs to the police and say they cornered
    YOU!!!
    
    I know, it sounds mean, but take it from someone who has
    been bitten TWICE by loose dogs - each owner "swearing" that
    they had never harmed anyone before! - those dogs are an accident
    waiting to happen, and the next time, it will be a child!!
    
    L-

    The basic problem is that there are dogs that will chase and even hurt
    cats, and this is one of the risks of having outdoor cats, IMO.  My
    action in this situation would be to contact the authorities and report
    the attack on your cat, then make your cats indoors only.  That way you
    have brought a dangerous situation to light, and protected your own
    cats at the same time.
    
    Jo

    Thanks for the useful advice.  As far as keeping Chris indoors, it's
    difficult, but for the short term at least probably the only workable
    solution.  This is the kitty that can jump 10 to 15 feet from a
    sitting position, with no problem; he stands 18 inches tall from front
    paw to head (he has the longest neck I have ever seen on a cat) and is 
    very strong.  It's going to be difficult to keep him in for the week the 
    Vet instructed us to do (I'll do somehow it of course).  We also have 3 
    other cats that would have to be kept in as well, not to mention the
    stray that eats in the garage.  The two older cats will not be
    difficult, but Charlie is only 2 and is very active.  I hate keeping
    young cats indoors.  I have a firm offer of a second family for Charlie
    if it should become necessary and a possible for Christopher.  Hope it
    doesn't come to that.  (I do feel that it's wrong that my kitties 
    and I part company because of the bad bahaviour of someone else, though.)
    
    I would love to make a screen porch/cat room, but like a fenced in yard 
    area it's expensive.
    
    I am taking photographs of each time the dog is on our property, but of
    course the photos won't have dates or times but at least it will show
    that it does happen.  The process in Groton is to sign a formal
    complaint for each offense, the dog officer won't respond unless you
    do.  We have done this.  And you can bet the neighbor will be getting 
    the Vet bill for this; I'm not so British when it comes to money. 
     
    Many thanks for your replies and support, each note has given me ideas that 
    may help. 
    
    Rosemary:  Christopher, Charlie, Guido Tiggerini, Miss Moffet and
    Casper the friendly ghost (aka Garage Kittie)   
            

    I COULDN'T WAIT TILL LUNCH TIME TO ADD THIS (SORRY DEC).
    
    My daughter has just seen a Real Estate agent put a For Sale
    sign up on my neighbors house -- the jerk is selling up (quickly I
    hope) and moving!      Although my gain is going to be someone elses
    loss, as where ever he goes that dog is going to be a liability.
    
    However, one step at a time.
    
    Thanks for all the great suggestions!
    
    

    Great news, Rosemary!!  Maybe his ears were ringing.  :^) :^)
    
    Maybe he will get what's coming to him wherever he moves to.
    
    
    -Roberta
    

    I actually feel bad for the poor dogs, to be owned by such
    imcompetents!
    
    But, soon they will be someone ELSE's problem.
    
    Who knows?  Maybe they will move somewhere with strict leash laws...
    THAT'LL teach 'em!  :^)
    
    K.C.

        My neighbor has huskys and when they get out they go to the
    neighboring houses and kill the cats and the rabbits in the pens.  We
    went to the local police station and logged a complaint.  We went
    everytime the dogs got out.  Its against the law for dogs to kill 
    domestic animals (house pets).  Go to the police station.  Maybe you'll
    be helping the neighbors of the new area they move to.\
    
       By the way, the dog after chasing my cat up into the well house we 
    have, then showed his teeth at my daughter.  My cats are inside only
    cats now.  Its not worth it with people like them around.
    
    

    Boy, am I glad no houses are for sale on my street! (:
    
    L-

    I think some of these notes are bordering on cruel.  The real problem
    here lies with the human, (or sub-human in this case), not the dog. 
    Unfortunately, there will always be ignorant folks in this world who
    don't know how, or don't WANT to know how, to properly treat an animal. 
    If we cannot reason with them, then we must elevate the problem to the
    authorities who can and will deal with it.
    
    I think taking photographs or videoing the dog roaming free, or even
    worse, maiming a cat, is a perfect way to display evidence and ensure
    the proper action is taken.
    
    
    
    

    Re: .20
    
    My neighbors do not have a pool, unfortunately, but one day as my hub
    was mowing the lawn, the mower flung some dung onto their house!  (Small
    yards, good range.)
    
    That is THE only real problem we have with Toby (the dog - 1/2 setter,
    1/2 black lab).  We finally got him to stop chasing the squirrels when
    they are in our yard, but we can NOT get him to stop crapping in our
    yard!  It drives us crazy that the neighbors just let Toby and their 3
    cats (Woodstock, Charlie and Miss Lucy) just run wherever-whenever they
    please.  But that is THE only complaint we have with these people -
    they are nice, quiet and helpful.
    
    K.C.

    Hey, now there's a thought!
    
    Borrow one of the leopards from the zoo, and chain it
    in the front yard!!!!!
    
      		"Here, doggie, nice, doggie" (-;
    
                  

      Re .24
      
      Reminds me of a T.V. Documentary on "Crime" that I once saw.. A
    "reformed" 2nd-story burgler was relating the reasons why he 'went
    straight' and became an advisor to law enforcement... Seems he had
    cased a place out and determined that the owners were out...so this
    particular night he climbed up the storm drain to the second floor,
    opened the window and shined his penlight into the room to get his
    bearings......and the light reflected back two EYES looking at him..
    His next recallable memory found him 2 blocks away, running at full
    speed....he said he didn't remember climbing down nor the first 2
    blocks of his escape run....only that the EYES that were glowing back
    at him were about 8 inches apart!!! Seems the homeowner had a pet
    Mountain Lion in that room!!
    
    JM

An now a message from our sponsors.....

CALM DOWN!!

Notes that serve only to incite will not be tolerated.  This topic has gone
down an over-emotional rathole and the moderatorship will allow this to go
no further.  Jo and I have agreed to let the note stand as is, but if any
further notes which serve only to incite are added, I'll delete them.

May calmer heads prevail, please???

Anyone got any Valium??

Mary 

    Why Valium?  Pat a kitty...the best soother around!  :^)
    
    K.C.

    There's something I always try to remember.  It doesn't matter (to me)
    if my thinking is right or wrong.  I always try to remember that an
    animal is an animal.  I may completely trust the humans I live with, 
    but I do not, and hope I never do, completely trust the animals I live
    with.   
    
    My husky/shepherd will be 11 years old in August.  She has always been
    a good dog with children, and I trained her to not chase the cats in the
    house.  She tried, once, to bite me -- she was 4 months old and I tried
    to take her first real bone away.  She learned very quickly that I was
    in charge, and that I would take anything I wanted out of her mouth,
    whenever, unconditionally.  We haven't had a problem in 11 years.  She
    is gentle, she loves people, she loves children, and she puts up with 4
    almost year-old kittens.  
    
    But I don't trust her.  She is my friend, I love her, I respect her -- but 
    she is a dog.  She is an animal.  She is capable of biting through my hand 
    in an instant and killing my kittens in the time it takes to snap my 
    fingers.  An animal is an animal, and I will never completely trust an
    animal.
    
    I feel the same way about my kittens.  They're cute as hell.  They make
    me laugh everyday, their behavior is excellent, they're not
    destructive.  But they are animals.  And their claws and teeth can do
    great damage to me and to my dog.  They've never tried -- they still do
    not unsheath their claws during play -- I can hold their front paws in
    my hand while they get their medicine squirted down their throats and
    they wiggle and wiggle, but don't scratch and don't even attempt to
    bite.  Good as they are, they are animals.
    
    ... and animals can be dangerous.
    
    Jo-Ann

    I don't believe .28 was directed to any specific FELINE noter.  I 
    believe it was the moderator's intent to simply ask all participants 
    in this topic calm down and to refrain from any references to doing 
    harm to any person/animal.
    
    Jan

    Several replies in this topic have been set hidden.  The authors of
    those replies have been notified of this action and why it was taken.
    
    Any replies entered in this topic, or in any other topic in this
    conference, that have a suggestion or reference to doing harm to 
    any person or animal will also be set hidden.
    
    Jo

    I would like to apologize to the moderator's of this note.   If I had
    known how much anger this note was going to stir up I would not have
    written it.  I was a little suprised at some of the replies I received
    but I can understand the feelings of the writers.
    
    Christopher is doing fine and jumping on the roof and trouncing Miss
    Moffet as if he had never been injured.  I heard from another neighbor that
    her cat had not been so lucky, the cat was saved by it's owner but
    needed extensive vet. care.   We are only allowing the cats out when we
    are sure the dogs are tied up and then stay with them.  I am sending
    Charlie and Christopher to New Hampshire to "Camp" for the summer where
    they will be much safer.  Hopefully by then next door will have moved,
    but not out of Groton unfortunately.
    
    Notes .24 and .27
    It's funny that only last night my daughter and I were fantasizing about 
    hiring a leopard, then in plain view of the neighbors calling "here kitty, 
    don't be afraid of the dogs" and having the handler bring "kitty" into 
    the garden for a walk.  
    
    It's only a fantasy, but I can dream can't I?
    
    

    THIS IS A FOLLOWUP/CLOSURE (I hope) TO MY NOTE #256
    
    My neighbors are moving at last, and taking their two black dogs with
    them, but we don't know where they are moving to.  So, I would like to 
    warn the following people.
    
    ANYONE LIVING WITHIN HALF AN HOUR DRIVE OF THE TOWNSEND ROAD /
    CROSSWINDS ESTATE / FLAT POND AREA / HARBOR VILLAGE MALL in 
    Groton Massachusetts (this area also includes the towns of Pepperel, 
    Townsend, and Shirley).
    
    If a family has just moved into your area who fit the following
    discription please watch-out for your cats, small dogs and children.
    
    Family of five:  Father is short with a beard; Mother is also
    short with long, straight black/brown hair; three daughters of college
    age, one lives at home but looks about 14 as she is very short/small.
    Two black labs: one mother dog with graying nose, the other is a male 
    with a hip injury and bad limp. 
                                             
    These dogs are strongly suspected in killing 14 cats in our area (three
    of them mine), they have also been witnessed attacking several cats
    (three of them mine also).  The owners are not ready to listen to
    reason or reimburse for expenses caused by their dogs.  The dogs also
    bite small dogs, and knock over small and not so small children.  
    
    If you recognize anyone in this description please warn your neighbors
    with cats.

    Isn't there an animal control authority to take care of this?  If you
    can't get the police's attention, ask them what if the next victims are
    children?
    
       

    That's disgusting that nobody can do anything about this!  I would call
    the animal control officer, and if not satisfied, go to the
    local/governing humane society.  Dogs have been thrown out of town for
    hurting chickens for God Sake! Killing cats and attempting to hurt any
    small living thing is not acceptable.period.
    Good luck and I am sorry for what has happened to you in the past.
    

    We have tried working with the town of Groton, but they only have
    an animal nuisance law, not a leash law.  In theory, after three
    signed complaint forms the animal can be picked up and destroyed.
    
    Yea, right!
    
    The dogs are running around without license tags and one without
    current rabies shots.  The town knows this! (The owners have been 
    issued a citation by the town for failing to license their dogs.)
      
    The dogs may go, but I won't forget how the town left us unprotected.  
    They will be hearing more of me in the future, ha!
    

    I don't think MA has passed a law about rabies shots yet, but I'm sure
    it's on the way. More rabid raccoons have been found recently, and I
    think a couple of cats to.
    
    My vet gives me certificates stating that my cats have had their rabies
    shots, so if (God firbid) they should bite anyone, I have quick proof
    of their immunizations. Good idea I think.
    
    Yonee

    Moderator:  If you could leave this note here for a few days, then
    move to note 256 I would be grateful.
    
    UPDATE TO NOTE 256 - Dog attack on cat
    
    The family concerned moved to the Town of Shirley, Massachusetts.
    If you live in that town, or nex7t to it, look out for these dogs.  Please
    read my note 256 for details.
    
    

          This is a real late reply but here's what can be done in some of
    these small towns. I saw it first hand in New Braintree. Most
    definitely contact the dog officer. Then contact the board of selectmen
    and ask to file a complaint. The event I witnessed ,unfortunately,
    ended up in a public hearing where a group of disgruntled neighbors
    finally had an unltimatum issued to 2 dogs very similar to the
    basenoters. I also witnessed a followup when one of the dogs was
    found to be in violation of being restraining order decreed by the 
    selectmen. He was given one more chance with the stipulation that if
    there was another violation the dog/s would be seized. It's certainly
    not the best way to get along with your neighbors though. 
        
    
            Bob