Conference misery::feline

    I was actually going to write for advice on a very similar problem. 
    We've got a stray in our neighborhood which tends to beat up on all of
    the other cats.  My wife has been saying that if we feed him, he'll
    become nicer.  My thoughts have been that if we feed him, he'll stick
    around and beat up on our cats more.  
    
    Anyway, I recently saw that he has injured his foot and lost a lot of
    weight.  I have tried to catch him to take him to the vet for his foot,
    but in the meantime, we have been feeding him, because he can no longer
    catch mice or anything.
    
    My questions are:  
    
    Is there any truth to my wife's idea that if we feed him he'll become a
    nicer cat?
    
    I'm very cautious about catching him because he obviously does NOT want
    to be around people, and am wondering about the possibility of rabies
    if he decides to bite.  Any ideas?
    
    Bob

    Hi.  I used to feed a stray, unfixed male cat that my cats would fight
    all the time with.  They absolutely hated each other.  "Kitty" came
    around for about a year or more and sometime during that year+, the
    cats stopped fighting.  They would sit a few feet apart and growl, but
    no fights.  Kitty at first would not come to me.  By feeding him and
    talking with him, I was able to get him to come to me and he would even
    sit in my lap.  I believe that by the love I showed him (and that my
    cats saw me give him), he became a pretty good cat.  Unfortunately, he
    doesn't come around anymore, and I haven't seen him in about a year.  I
    think my daughter terrorized him into never returning.  (I think,
    actually, my own cats put Jackie up to terrorizing Kitty.)
    
    Anyway, my point is, in my opinion, that yes, if you feed the cat, talk
    to it, and try and show it some attention, it will become a friendlier
    cat.  I've been through this before and although the cats may never
    become household cats, they do "soften up" a bit.
    
    Mary
    

    Thanks for that reply. It's actually what I was hoping to hear! ;-) I
    put food out originally, and didn't tell hubby. He saw the bowl out in
    back, and asked about it. I just gave him the "Oops! you caught me"
    look an he smiled, and said I was such a softie! No complaints though,
    so I think he was thinking of doing the same thing.
    
    Since I started putting food out Friday afternoon, he has only come in
    once, and when I went outside, his bowl was empty. I filled it this
    morning, and it wan't quite empty, so maybe he's slowing down a little
    with all the food I've been putting out.
    
    I'll keep speaking softly to him when I see him. Unfortunately, the
    only time I've really seen him is in the house! I saw his bum leaving
    once, but wasn't really sure it was a strange cat until I saw Doonie in
    the next room.
    
    Thanks for the advice, and the support! ;-)
    
    Y

    Y-
    
    That's how I got #5!  You softie, you! (-; (-;
    
    The most likely reason a cat fights is because it is
    trespassing on another cat's territory.  
    Also, if it is an un-neutered male, it will be worse...
    Feeding him will not make him nicer to the
    other cats, but it will to the humans feeding it! (:
    

    And that is exactly how I got 11 with 7 of them
    coming from my own neighborhood.  Two of these cats
    will soon be up for adoption because I have reached
    my max...and it is a bit overwhelming.  
    
    Both my hubby and I are softies and have always left
    food out for the strays, the opposums, and the racoons!!
    the only stray I am having a hard time introducing him
    to the rest of the household...is Van Gogh.  In the beginning
    VG loved other cats and hated people...but now he loves
    people and hates all other cats.  
    
    It is very difficult for me to sit and watch a stray cat
    starve to death.  I feel the least I can do is feed it, fix
    it, and show it a bit of love.  My problem is I have done
    this with VG, JC, and Tigger...and nobody wants to leave
    my house now.
    
    Sandy
    
    Sandy
    

    It's a dilemma alright.  I am feeding a stray (or maybe 2 or more) in
    my garage and have been all winter.  A few snow storms ago my sister
    looked for cat prints to see if we could trace where the cat was
    coming from.  She found one set of cat prints, three sets of small
    feet, several sets of very tiny feet.  I think I have been feeding the
    mice, chipmunk and squirrel population DELI CAT all winter.
    
    Not that I would want anyone to stop feeding a stray animal, but be
    aware that you may be feeding more than you realize.  Also, what ever 
    the thoughts of my stray cat on the matter, it gets its rabies shots 
    as soon as I can catch it.
                       

    With the barn cats, it was whole males fighting w/ each other, and
    once they were neutered, they all became buddies.  Leave some food
    and water outside for the guy, he probably appreciates it.  If you can
    catch him try to get him neutered, the low cast FOA certificates 
    are very reasonable.  Then he'll probably stop beating on your cats
    (but if your encouraging him to stick around and let your cats out, 
    you'll have to expect a few battles.....and you cats helping themselves
    to the new food source).

      That's what is going on at my house now.  It started with Fluffy
    a year ago, now we have a cute Tortie with a blond tail tip we call
    Tippy.  Fluffy, even after a year still remains a feral personality,
    Tippy on the other hand is ready to be captured and taken to the vet.
    Each cat being different, you can't really tell which ones will get
    real friendly and adoptable and which ones will still, no matter how
    cold it is, rather remain outside.  I'd at least like to get them to
    a vet and have them checked, given shots, etc.   You don't want to risk
    bringing in anything.  Worm eggs and fleas for example can be tracked
    in on your shoes and spread to your babes.
    
    Denise

    re .8:
    You can bring in anything so or so, keep your kitties checked and
    that's it. There are fleas and worm eggs all around, even if you do not
    feed a poor guy outside. So do it.
    
    re .7:
    Neutering is a good idea, if you can catch him, but thereafter you must
    keep him. In the wilderness neutered cats are killed if left alone. So
    he must become your outdoor cat, then.
    
    Nat

    
    re: .9
    
    why are neutered cats killed in the wild?
    

    Thanks for all the replies! I think -.2 was reffering to the fact that
    neutered cats are less aggressive, and usually don't fair well against
    aggressive whole males. I may be all wrong here, but that's what I
    assumed. 
    
    Well, I have been putting out Meow Mix, and fresh water every morning.
    He tried to get in last night, but Feendoonie was posted at the cat
    flap, and every time he tried to get in Doonie popped him. I feel
    really bad. I still haven't seen him/her well enough to even determine
    if this is a male/female whateever. I did see his back end pretty weel
    once, and didn't notice any "nasty bits" as our British friends say.
    That's not to say they weren't there, but if he was well endowed, I'm
    sure I would have noticed.
    
    I don't mind having an outdoor cat. I wouldn't even mind him moving in
    if he wanted to. My cats wouldn't be too thrilled, but I'm not really
    discouraging him either. I mean I COULD lock the outside cat flap if I
    REALLY wanted too!
    
    I feel really guilty right now. I just realized I didn't go out and
    check his bowl this morning! I'm glad I only live 5 miles from work
    now! I don't mind if my cats find the new food source, because it's the
    same stuff as we have indoors at all times. I don't put the wet stuff
    out for him, because I've been feeding my spoiled brats the Whiskas in
    the little flat cans with the foil tops. I give them a can split in the
    morning, and one at night. Of course, I'm not sure what my
    mother-in-law gives them during the day. She spoils them too, but would
    NEVER admit it.
    
    So, I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. If he wants to come
    onto the porch, no problem unless my girls find him. If I can ever get
    close to him, I'll try to befriend him. It may take a LOONNGGG time,
    but where am I going, right?
    
    The really funny thing though, is that I don't think it is this cat
    that terrorizes my two. I think that is the Silver Tabby from across
    the street. I feel really bad for him too. He gets fed and all, but
    he's always coming over for me to love him when I'm outside. I oblige
    him, but my two are not at all thrilled! ;-)  He is the cat I thought
    was coming into the house. Surprise! Two different gray cats!
    
    Thanks again all!
    
    Love,
     Y
    
    
    

    Sorry about the title. I wish I could remember that I don't have to
    exit before I name the note! Once an airhead, always an airhead I
    guess!
    
    Love,
     Y

    Actually...it is good to keep one of your strays outdoors.  I have
    noticed that since I took in both VG and JC (who were both feral
    neighborhood cats) that I have atleast 4 new cats showing up.
    
    I believe these other cats are taking over VG and JC territory...
    and they are all eating off of my porch. (sigh!!)  VG nor JC
    could care less about going out now and when JC does go out...
    he just sits on my porch crying to come back in.
    
    Sandy

    >>"Neutering is a good idea, if you can catch him, but thereafter you must
    >>keep him. In the wilderness neutered cats are killed if left alone. So
    >>he must become your outdoor cat, then."
      
    I disagree with this statement.  If you are going to be providing food
    to the cat, then you should neuter him too, *especially* if he is going
    to be left outside.  Providing him nutritious food will allow him to be
    healthy enough to be capable of reproduction, and a whole male cat can
    sire thousands of kittens each year.  In the United States, we have a 
    horrendous pet overpopulation problem--we don't need any more unwanted 
    animals.  And feral cats are the biggest problem of all since they are 
    reproducing unchecked.  If and when the offspring are caught, very few 
    can be adoptable as pets due to their wild nature.
    
    I am involved with a group that does spaying/neutering on feral cat
    populations.  The program is called TTVAR (Trap, Test, Vaccinate, Alter
    and Release).  These feral cats are then returned to their habitat to
    live out the rest of their lives.  The altering has no ill effects on
    their ability to fend for themselves in their habitat, but it does
    prevent them from creating more feral cats.  I think that programs such
    as this are a good alternative to euthanizing these animals in
    shelters.
    
    Jo
    

    Jo,
    
     Great reply. I think there are programs similar to that out here on
    the east coast too. I'm going to move the bowl of food I have out
    closer to the back door. Maybe I will get a chance to see it closely.
    Where I have the bowl right now is in back of my shed. It's totally out
    of sight of me, but has an overhang that helps keep the rain/snow out
    of the bowl. If I move it, it will be out in the open, but I may have
    better luck in befriending it, if I can ever get to see it! ;-)
    
     I will definitely see to spaying/neutering if the opportunity arises.
    Also any vaccinations that are needed. As I said, I'm not even sure if
    this cat is a stray, or how long it has actually been around, as I
    thought it was the cat from across the street. The new one is grey,
    with darker gray stripes and a white muzzle. It was the muzzle that
    made me realize this was a different cat than I thought.
    
     I hope my efforts will pay off, but after seeing the results of some
    of my fellow noter's escapades in this area, I am very optomistic! ;-)
    
     Thanks again for all the replies.
    
     Love,
     Y

    out of the 20+ feral cats we've neutered, five have become resident
    barn cats, but these cats are by no means tame.....medicating them
    can be quite an experience!  One cat is deceased, and the remaining
    cats either were released and hang about in the shadows, were placed
    in a shelter, or were released and have taken off.
    
    We have seen no ill effects on any of the cats that hang around from 
    being neutered.  Like SAndy mentioned, they keep new ones from coming
    around (not that we don't want them we can't afford them).  They
    are definatly less aggressive in their commumity....which is nice.
    
    Michele, Nippa and Buster's crew
    
    

    Nat is from a different country so that might have something to do with
    the differences of opinion.
    
    I currently have two feral cats who eat on my back deck.  I never let
    them go hungry.  I finally caught up with my vet after her maternity
    leave and she agreed to help me with the veterinary care if I can
    capture these cats.  She is willing to work with me on a tab, so I
    don't have to pay all at once.  For these guys, I will definitely need
    a Hav-a-Hart trap.  They are very wild.
    
    Y -- If you are willing to dole out the funds for veterinary care, then
    definiately release the cat into it's familiar territory afterwards,
    and keep feeding it.  My biggest beef is with no-kill shelters who take
    in feral cats that nobody wants to adopt due to their wild state. 
    These cats are very afraid and sometimes remain confined in their cages
    for years.  It is very sad.  I would much rather see them released to
    where they are happiest... outside in their familiar territory and
    surroundings.
    
    -Roberta
    

    re: .17
    
    Some no-kill shelters have volunteers who work hard to "socialize"
    feral cats, however.
    

    RE: .13
    
    >Sorry about the title. I wish I could remember that I don't have to
    >exit before I name the note! Once an airhead, always an airhead I
    >guess!
    
    You can correct your title after you post a note by simply entering
    the following command at the NOTES> prompt:
    
    		SET NOTE/TITLE="the new title" 
    
    Deb

    Poor me! (re .9,.10,.14)
    
    First of all, I must state that I TOTALLY agree with .14 and am FOR cat
    neutering! Different country or not, problems are the same! Jo doing
    great job, I wish there were more care and money for that in my country
    too.
    
    As for killing neuters, I read it in a book and as I am not an
    etologist, I believed it, for it seemed logical that 'normal' animals
    do not like 'unnormaled' ones. I am sorry to have posted that so as I
    did, I should have done it saying: "I never checked, but I have read,
    that...etc."
    
    And last but not least, a cat you feed and look after sometimes, IS
    already your outdoor cat... or better to say yours, too, for outdoor
    cats use to own more families the same time :^)!
    
    I hope to have cleared the misunderstandings.
    
    Meow: Nat
             

    re: .19 
    
     Deb,
    
      Thanks for that info! I think I'll try it! I looked in help to see
    what I could find, but I gues I either missed that, or discounted it
    for some reason which is unknown to me! ;-)
    
      Now, the continuing saga. I think this cat is if not terrorizing my
    two girls, he's buggin them. They have had no kitty box since about
    October of last year with no problems. This morning I walked into the
    living room to feed the fish, and was almost knocked over from the
    smell of urine! 
    
     OK, now, I don't know if this means that the stray cat is getting in
    and spraying, or if my two are choosing to use the livng room rug
    instead of facing the stranger. It's been so long since I had a male
    cat that sprayed, that believe it or not, I forget how bad it smells.
    This is pretty strong, but smells like pee to me. My husband said he
    smelled it the other night, but I was having an allergy attack and
    couldn't smell anything.
    
     Now I guess I have to try to figure out where the smell actually is,
    (it smells like the whole room has been used!) and try to clean it up,
    and get the smell out. Does anyone know if I can get Nature's miracle
    at Big Steve's? I cringe at the thought of shopping there, because they
    are usually VERY expensive, but it will be cheaper than ripping up the
    whole carpet!
    
     I'm also thinking that I'll bring the box back in, and lock the
    outside cat flap at night when we go to bed. That way they can still
    get out to the box on the porch if they need to. Does this sound like a
    feasable idea? I feel really bad that my two girls don't want to go
    outside at all anymore because of this new cat. They never went out for
    too long, but on nice days they like to play on the hill right behind
    my place, and Furby loves to play in the snow. Now they only want to go
    out if we are out also. I have two wimpy cats I guess, although
    Feendoonie will defend her cat flap like a tiger! She just won't go
    through it anymore!
    
     Help! Any suggestions will be thoroughly welcome! I'm getting
    desparate, and I still don't even know if this cat is a stray, or male
    or female, spayed/neutered or not! I'm going crazy!
    
     Thanks for listening!
    
     Love,
     Y

    Hey Deb! I tried what you said, and it worked like a charm! You're
    smart like anything!!! ;-) Thanks again!
    
     Y

    Would it be possible to rent a have-a-heart trap and try to
    catch the other cat.  Atleast you will be able to determine if
    you are dealing with a he/her...and possibly atleast bring it
    to the vets to be fixed, tested and given yearly shots.   So
    what if you determine he has a home...obviously the owners do
    not care if he roams....or they would have fixed him long ago.
    Yes...it will be an expense for you but worth it in my mind...it
    might just stop the aggresion.
    
    I think shutting the kitty door at night is the right thing to do!
    I always wanted a kitty door for my kids...but I always feared that
    I would have every stray, racoon, opposums, and skunk walking
    through my house.  It's bad enough that they all eat off my porch! 
    
    Good luck Yvonne...and keep us posted.
    
    Sandy

    Hi Sandy,
    
     Good idea about thr have-a-heart trap. The thought did enter my mind,
    but I was trying to figure out if I was catching a stray or someone's
    pet before I took that approach. Looks like I may have to do that
    sooner than I planned if my girls are using the living room for their
    box, or worse, the stray is trying to mark the living room as his/her
    territory!
    
     My little girls seem very confused about this stranger trying to get
    in THEIR house all the time!
    
     Again, thanks for all the advice I have been given. It's really great
    to have all these folks help out that have had similar experiences. It
    makes a big difference in my life having this conference available!
    
     Love,
    
     Y

    Just a few comments about Have-a-hearts....make sure you only
    set the trap if you will be around to monitor it every 3-4 hours.
    I have seen cats (especially ferals) really hurt themselves trying
    to escape from the trap and have had very bloody paws from trying
    to dig out.
    
    Good luck too because some kitties are really trap smart and have
    learned how to shut the trap door with their paw and sit on the side
    sticking there paws in to get the food. Doors are shut, food is gone...
    but no cat!  If this happens you can place a blanket over the trap
    so just the doors are showing and the cat cannot see the food from
    the side.    
    
    Also be careful...if you have opposums, skunks or racoons in your
    area...you could catch one of those too!!  Right Lori!!!!  
    
    I'm sure your girls are truly confused...especially if this cat
    is coming in your house.  Hey...Mom who invited him!!
    
    Sandy

    I would have expected neutering to improve a male's chances of survival
    in the wild because I was assuming if he doesn't look for fights, he
    doesn't get into fights, and doesn't get hurt.  After all, if the
    'male' doesn't act or smell like a male to the whole males, why would
    they pick on him?  I could be wrong; testing the question would be
    tough.
    
    Good luck with the capture.  I'm not sure if I would even feed a feral
    unless I meant to take it in and make it a regular pet (as best I
    could).  I'd be afraid of attracting more ferals and feeding lots of
    feral-babies if I constantly fed an animal at the back porch; ideally I
    would make the cat an indoor cat.  Of course, then I could end up like
    Sandy, who seems to have a flashing "FREE FOOD" sign over her door. 
    I'm glad I don't have a back porch in some ways.  ;^)
    
    Lisa Dean

perhaps putting a cat box up in the house will alleviate the problem of
your cats refusing to go outside (if that is the problem rather than spraying).
of course, if you close your cats in at night and lock the cat flap you'll
have to have a box inside anyway.

    Take a look at the walls;  if the "outside" cat is spraying, he's
    probably going against the walls about a foot or so off the ground.
    

    Hi all,
    
     Thanks again! Seems like I have been saying that a lot lately! ;-) I
    like it!
    
     I would only use the trap if I was around. I have a feeling that the
    first few times it sprung, it would be Furby in there saying, "OK, I
    ate the food, now let me out!" She's not the brightest little girl. ;-)
    
     I haven't seen this cat since I started this note, but it has been
    around, because Feendoonie attacked the cat flap again last night. By
    the time I can get to the door the cat is long gone, and we don't have
    a light out back, so a grey cat is not going to be easy to see, even if
    it is right in front of me.
    
     Thanks for the hint to check the walls for signs of spraying. I never
    would have thought of that. Like I said, it's been a long time since I
    had a whole male around. I don't want to say HOW long, but long! ;-)
    
     From the smell of my room, I may have to do the whole carpet to get
    rid of the smell! I hope I can isolate the spot(s). That's always a
    nice way to spend a Friday evening, right? I'll update my progress on
    Monday. Have a great weekend everyone!
    
     Love,
    
     Y