Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    I picked up the Sarah Vaughn and truly love it!
    It's a long disk but I'm afraid I don't remember how long
    off the top of my head.  The sound quality is excellent,
    considering the time period of the recordings, and contains
    some great interpretations of stds.  There is, oddly enough,
    a lot of duplication of material that Linda Ronstadt used
    in her Nelson Riddle sessions.  So, it makes for a good
    comparison of style.  While I do enjoy the LR/NR stuff,
    the Sarah Vaughn versions show off the pure spirit of the
    tunes, i.e. no schmaltz and the performances are marvelous.
    
    	re: Bill Evans
    
    Does this mean that the Conversations LPs are not to be
    converted in their pristine state to CD?  That will be
    truly sad.  Those are/were high on my list along with Art 
    Tatum.
    
    =ken

    Think of the CompactJazz series as samplers - a sampler of a single artist.
    
    Yes, Sarah Vaughan is available on CompactJazz, but that doesn't keep
    Polygram from releasing the *entire* Sarah Vaughan Mercury catalogue on
    CD.  (I've only managed to save for Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 of the 5 (6?)
    volume set so far, sigh.  Each volume is five or six discs including
    many outakes!) 
    
    On Linda Ronstandt vrs. Sarah Vaughan.  Oh, please, there just isn't
    any comparison between an amateur and a pro.  Not that Linda Ronstandt
    didn't make a good effort, and not that Nelson Riddle didn't try
    to teach her how to sing, but please....
    
    		 						-mr. bill

    I grabbed up my first Compact Jazz disc was "The Singers Unlimited"
    even though it duplicated several songs from a couple of CDs I already
    had.  It has 16 songs (61'44") from their half-dozen or more MPS
    albums.  Only about half have been released so far on CD.

    -- Ward

>    On Linda Ronstandt vrs. Sarah Vaughan.  Oh, please, there just isn't
>    any comparison between an amateur and a pro.  Not that Linda Ronstandt
>    didn't make a good effort, and not that Nelson Riddle didn't try
>    to teach her how to sing, but please....
>    
>    		 						-mr. bill

    Nowhere in my reply did I suggest that the two singers should be
    compared on a competitive basis.  I was merely remarking that
    the song selection on the Sarah Vaughn was similar and made for
    a good bench-mark to note the differences in approach or style.
    I also remarked that Sarah's versions were certainly closer to
    the spirit of the tunes than the overly lush versions presented
    by Linda and Nelson.
    
    However, I did also mention that I did appreciate the Ronstadt/
    Riddle performances.  This comes from a long time affection with
    Linda Ronstadt's voice.  I did not suggest, at all, that you or
    anyone else should embrace my personal feelings.  On the other
    hand you suggest that not only can't she sing but that my personal 
    taste is in question.  While the opinions are certainly at odds 
    I see no need to insult my inteligence.  It's non-productive.

    Even this reply is non-productive and, in a sense, defensive
    but I don't care because I'm finally tired of hearing how someones
    opinions are so much better than someone elses.  They are, after
    all, only opinions.  It's a no-win/no-lose situation.
    
    The one thing, though, that we are in total agreement with is the 
    talent of Sarah Vaughn.  I suggest that those reading this file 
    who really like the Ronstadt collection would be doing themselves
    a BIG favor by purchasing the Vaughn collection.  It's definately
    worth it.
    
    =ken

    re: .1
    
    "Conversations With Myself" has been available for quite some time.
    I think I got my copy over a year ago. There has been no shortage
    of Bill Evans reissues on CD (the Riverside stuff is notable), but
    there seem to be few CD outlets with more than 2 or 3 titles at
    a time.
    
    -Tom

    re: .4                                             
    
    Lord, I'm sorry that I've gotten you so defensive.  I think I picked a
    style of writing more appropriate to another conference, and really
    botched what I wanted to say.
    
    
    I agree, I too enjoy Linda Ronstandt's voice - and love much of
    her work.  Her recent collaboration with Harris and Parton is just
    wonderful.
    
    My opinion is Linda *can* sing, but she didn't learn how to sing jazz.
    She tried, tried very hard, and Nelson Riddle was certainly a good
    teacher, but she never seems comfortable with her singing.
    
    She sings the notes wonderfully, but she doesn't sing the songs.  Her
    voice is beautiful, and her sincere effort shines through her
    struggles, and that is what makes her Nelson Riddle sessions something
    special. 
    
    One last opinion, and then I'll go away.  I'm not certain that
    there is a way to be faithful to the spirit of a tune in Jazz.
    
    Listen to Monk play "Round Midnight" - differently each time.  Which
    version is faithful to the original?  That's why I like jazz.  Unlike
    the tradition of classical music, there isn't this worship of the
    infallibility of a composer, there isn't the attempt to duplicate an
    original performance. 
    
    Sarah Vaughan's version of a song is Sarah Vaughan's version of
    a song.  Her interpretation of the map that the composer
    laid down is what makes it special.  Another artist will read the
    map differently, travel a different path, but arrive at the same
    place.  Neither one is "right", just different.
    
    
    Which brings me to my inappropriate reply.  I thought you were trying
    to say that Vaughan did it right and Ronstandt did it wrong.  They're
    different, like tomatoes and hot house tomatoes are different. 
    Some say one's better than the other, I just think of them as different
    fruit.
    
    								-mr. bill

    Yeah, that's what I was leaning toward.  In a song such as
    Lush Life, Nelson changes the time from 4/4 to 3/4 and Linda
    sings the notes as written in the new time.  In the arrangement
    used by Vaughn the time signature stays constant throughout
    at 4/4.  At the finale, where the greatest comparison can be
    made, like you said Linda sings the written notes and her 
    intonation is good, but no improvisation.  Vaughn, on the
    other hand, takes the phrase all over her vocal range.
    
    In essence, this is how I was trying to define an indefineable
    situation and how I perceive jazz.  A structured piece that is
    a guidline that allows the performer to improvise within the
    structure.  The Linda/Nelson sessions were bassed on note for
    note transcriptions that were/are performed the same way, relatively
    speaking, each time.
    
    I don't want to seem like I'm casting aspersions on Linda but
    to me that subtle difference is the difference between the true
    spirit of jazz and a straight interpretation, for lack of a 
    better description.
    
    Thanks for your reply, I thought there was a reasonable explanation,
    or that it was simply unfortunately a misunderstanding.
    
    =ken

    

Re. Mr. Bill & Ken
        
    Thanks to both of you for making something really constructive of
    what initially could've turned out downright unfriendly. I love
    both Ronstadt's and Sarah's singing, but thought Linda went out
    on a limb with the Riddle sessions. Not that I thought she couldn't
    handle it, only that, to me, they didn't turn out as well as I
    expected. Let's face it, Linda is a rocker/stylist, Sarah is a
    crooner/stylist - just different. 
    
    One point I'd like to make to Mr. Bill, is that I thought Riddle
    may have been the reason for Linda's seeming lack of self-interpretation
    of those standards. He was famous for being "the guy that ran the
    session," even in Sinatra's days with him. I always felt that Riddle
    meant the orchestra to convey whatever the song was attempting to
    say, rather than the singer - just my opinion.
    
    My one regret from the whole 3 album set, is that she never got
    to release the "girl group" standards, originally slated for the 2nd
    album. Her own backup singers (Liza Edwards & ...forgot the other one)
    did some live at Linda's last "rock-type" concerts, with Linda taking
    most solo parts. They were great.
    
    Sorry for wandering, just couldn't let this one pass. I picked up
    much from the ensuing conversation from the two of you. Thanks again.
    
    				The Cruiser

    I was introduced to this series yesterday, when I got the
    Duke Ellington and Friends disc, as part of an order from
    Noteworthy. My wife and I sat on the deck, thoroughly 
    enjoyed it. I will order more of these discs in the future,
    but am not familiar with many of the artists. I do know
    Count Basie, Dizzy Gillespie, Louis Armstrong, and the 
    singers, but would appreciate some info on people like
    Wes Montgomery, Gerry Mulligan (sax?), Stan Getz, and
    others, whose names I have heard, but don't really know.
    During the last several years, I have gotten into some
    of the modern groups, but would like to get to know some 
    of these artists. Any help would be appreciated.
    
                 Wayne

    Wes Montgomery - Guitar.  Over the years, he's done a lot of wonderful
    work interpreting the vocal leads of jazz standards (and some rock
    standards) on guitar.  He has a distinctive style, you'll probably
    enjoy the disc.  (Unfortunately, there still isn't much of his work out
    on CD.) 
    
    Gerry Mulligan - Baritone Sax.  Part of the founding of the "cool
    movement" in modern jazz.  Early work with Miles Davis.  His tone is
    wonderful, and he can play that big horn.  Still working, with some
    recent work on Concord with Scott Hamilton.
    
    Stan Getz - Tenor Sax, best known for "Jazz Samba" and "Jazz Samba
    Encore", popularizing the latin beat with the hit song "The Girl from
    Impenena (sp?)".  Another artist still recording with Concord, and he
    probably has the largest collection on CD of the three. 
    
    								-mr. bill
                                                           

    Wayne,
    
     You may also want to check out the relatively new Jazz conference,
    located at MTBLUE::JAZZ
    
    
    
                                    Ken
    

    
    Re: .10
    
    If you are familiar with the instrumental work of George Benson,
    Wes Montgomery was very much in the same vein, right down to the
    use of string and horn sections on his later work.  In fact, early
    in his career, Benson was often accused of copping Wes' style.

    PolyGram has another CD called "Wes Montgomery, The Silver Series"
    which probably has some overlap with the Compact Jazz collection.  
    A&M has issued a Wes volume in their 25th anniversary series.
    
    

    re last three, thanks for the comments, please add any info
    about other people to look for from that time. I didn't know
    about the JAZZ conference, will check it out.
    
    Although his prime was considered "swing", Benny Goodman
    seems to belong in the group of Jazz legends, but I never
    here him mentioned as such. Why Not?
    
                      Wayne

RE: .13
    
>    Although his prime was considered "swing", Benny Goodman
>    seems to belong in the group of Jazz legends, but I never
>    here him mentioned as such. Why Not?
    
    I think Benny Goodman would be in many jazz fans' "long lists" (20-30)
    of jazz legends.  One reason he might not be in many "short lists" is
    the general feeling that he popularized the innovations of others and
    got more than his share of credit and exposure for doing so.  For
    example, his "breakthrough" big band style circa 1935 was largely
    adapted from Fletcher Henderson circa 1931 -- which is not to say he
    didn't acknowledge that fact many times over (and actually featured
    Henderson for a while).  Folks also mutter about the claims that he
    invented chamber jazz (the Teddy Wilson-Lionel Hampton small groups)
    and established the first racially-mixed ensemble.  Undeniably he was
    overexposed in the 30's and 40's, certainly relative to the many
    superior black bands, and there's the lingering backlash from the "King
    of Swing" label (the Paul Whiteman syndrome...).  But you have to
    balance all of this against his clarinet artistry, the reports and
    recorded evidence that his band on a good night was almost in a class
    with Ellington, Lunceford, Basie, etc., and the fact that his
    popularizing of swing and featuring of black masters got a lot of swing
    bands a lot of work.

    [Personally, I prefer to reserve my hostility for the claim that Dave
    Brubeck invented the use of "unusual" time signatures in jazz...] 

    - John C.