Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    
    RE: .-1
    
    	Along the same lines ...
    
    	Can someone provide me with information, or a pointer to
    information about the cassette/CD converter mentioned in .-1????
    
    	Any/all help is appreciated ...
    
    								-rjk

    
    I suggest recording the CD's at home, and playing the tapes in your
    car.  The tape can always be replaced, and your CD's are kept safe.
    
    Although some will disagree, I believe that the fidelity of CD's
    are negated by the road and engine noise.  Your attention should
    be focused on the road instead of the stereo.
    
         

    Re the converter: 
    
    I bought one a couple of months ago. It's been great for long trips.
    The sound isn't as good as a home cd unit (or a portable unit played
    at home), but darn, it's nice. The Recoton (Recotron?) cost about
    20 bucks at Service Merchandise in Auburn. Should be available elsewhere.
    

    Since you are starting from scratch, find a cassette deck with auxilary
    input jacks.  Then you can tape your CDs at first, upgrade by
    purchasing a portable CD player and just plug it in.  No adaptor
    needed so you don't have to dish out any more bucks or have this
    extra thing hanging around.  It probable sounds better since the
    signal path is more direct (I'd say that it "does" sound better
    but I haven't looked at any car stereo schematics.)
    
    Kenney
    

    I would cast my vote for a good cassette player and record your
    CDs onto cassette as mentioned in 802.2.  This way, if someone
    rips off the tape, you still have the master (CD).  If you go
    with the car CD player, you risk losing the master.
    
    Unless you have golden ears, you won't find much difference between
    the tape and the CD (provided you have a good home cassette recorder).
    The car noise will tend to cancel out the dynamic range.
    
    On the negative side of this suggestion, you'll have to worry about
    the copyguard issue.  If copyguard becomes a reality, you may not
    be able to record the CDs onto tape.  (Don't know if copyguard only
    applies to DAT recorders?)
    
    Don

    I don't know whether CopyGuard is limited to DATs, but I have heard
    some discussion thart if the law is passed it might be implemented
    in all recording devices.
    

    The Recoton adaptor works well, but not with Pioneer units.  I
    agree that a model that has a separate input for a portable CD
    player is a good bet.  I can hear the difference between a CD
    and a good cassette, especially on cold days with the wow and flutter
    of the cassette player.
    
    I'd be hesitant about buying an in-dash CD unit, unless you are
    on very good terms with your insurance company.
    	
    				Steve

    I'll vote for taping, or spending the $600+ for the Sony Cartridge
    system (Holds 8 disks in a player stored in your trunk).  Storing
    a CD in a car risks theft, and also warpage from extreme heat and
    cold.  Granted, CDs should last forever but after a few hot August
    days in the middle of a parking lot, I'm not sure.
    
    And then there is Dynamic range, a CrO2 tape with Dolby recorded
    from a CD will have a better sound than an LP.  If you have a CD
    player running and open the window of your car a crack, any incremental
    gain in music quality over the tape goes out the window (literally).
    A tape also gives you 90 min. of music, but isn't as fast with track
    selection.
    
    Play it safe, and cheaper.  Tape them.

        Taping CDs for car use has several problems:
        
          - You have a choice:  tape all of your CDs or be limited when
            you select music for the car.  I don't want to be limited. 
        
          - Taping increases the cost of the music you buy by about 15%
            (the cost of the tape).  I would rather have 15% more CDs. 
        
          - Taping CDs significantly increases the room needed to store
            the media.  I'm always running out of room for music (I have
            the same problem with books) and don't want to make it worse. 
        
          - Taping CDs is an effort, and I'm lazy. 
        
        So I have a CD player in my car.
        
        					B.J.

    Well, I decided to put all of my money into CDs (rather than other
    things) BEFORE copy-guard (aka music mangling) maybe becomes a reality.
    I can always spend money on a fancy player/tape/etc later.
    
    What I did was buy a Sony D-7 and that's it.  I use it in the office,
    at home, and in the car via the Recoton adapter.  I purchased the
    Recoton adapter at Lechmere in Nashua 6 months ago for about $17.
    I'm not sure of the current price, but they had lots of them last
    week when I was there.  The only problem I had was that the D-7
    seems a bit prone to skipping on bumps - I solved this with a small
    1/2" plywood lidless, frontless box lines with carpet padding. 
    Now it takes a pretty large frost heave to give me a skip.
    
    After caopy-guard arrives, if it does, I can tape if I want, buy
    a fancy player for home, buy a fancy player in my next car (the
    one I drive now is 8 years old), or whatever.
    
    On the subject of quality, I did have to replace the "stock" speakers
    in my car to make myself happy ($29 at Lechmere on sale).  As noted
    above, there are several opinions on this issue.  Mine is that the
    D-7 sounds far better than a tape of a CD.  I find it LESS distracting
    to listen to the best sound I can get (CD rather than tape), and
    MORE distracting to be displeased with tape hiss, etc. To each his
    or her own.
    
    Bruce
    

    Re: .8
    
    Two nits:
    
    The Sony CDX-A10 will play ten discs, not eight.  Also, it has
    a switchable compression circuit to compensate for the dynamic
    range problem you mentioned.
    
    Still, I was utterly blown away by the difference between high
    quality tapes I had recorded and the same discs played through my
    D-5 and the Recoton adaptor.  You can definitely hear the quality.
    The adaptor is a nuisance, though, and I'd recommend a direct
    input somewhere and a dedicated power source rather than the
    cigarette lighter.
    					Steve

    Thanks for all your input.  I think I will look for a good cassette deck
    with direct inputs for portable cd.   For the money I would spend
    for a cd player, I can get a goooood cassette deck.
    
    Thanks
    
    Jim
    
    
    

    I recently purchased a new car that has a tape deck that takes
    Metal (CrO2,furrow) tapes.  They sound great when the music is copied
    from CD's.  Besides you talking BIG BUCKS if you want a car CD.
    
    Steve

    The problem with a portable in a car is skipping.  I built a box
    but used sponges instead of carpeting.  It helped a lot in my setup,
    a D5 in a 200SX turbo, but by no means was it skip-proof.  My car
    does not have a soft suspension and the CD player knew it.  Since
    you decided to go the portable road, see where you can put it first
    and then rig up your own suspension system when you get it.  Then
    again you may own an Accura Legend and will just throw it on the
    dashboard with no problems :^)
    
    Kenney

    re .7

>   The Recoton adaptor works well, but not with Pioneer units.

    Do you mean it doesn't work well with Pioneer Car Cassette units,
    or with Pioneer Portable CD players?

    And is the problem specific to the Recoton adaptor, or is it a general
    problem that would apply to any adaptor (I guess I couldn't get a
    Rocoton here in France!).

    Colin.

    Re: .15
    
    The Recoton adaptor does not work with Pioneer car cassette units.
    I believe it's because the Pioneers use a method of determining
    that the tape is not moving that the Recoton doesn't fool (tape
    tension, perhaps).  I would expect that it would affect any
    similar adaptor.  The Recoton does allow the tape hubs to turn,
    which is sufficient for most cassette players.
    				Steve

    re: .16

    Thanks for the information.

    re: all

    I have heard that SONY make an adaptor too. Does anyone know anything?

    Colin.

    In the UK the SONY adaptor is the CDP-1 and sells for about �20.
    It does have the tape hubs connected by a loop (or something) and
    so does fake tape movement. It works in two car cassette decks I've
    owned - Blaupunkt and Philips.
    
    BTW they're currently giving them away in the US if you buy a Discman
    before the middle of July (I think). Just find a rebate coupon in
    one of the hifi magazines and send it off - they are also giving
    away two free CD's (not a great choice, though).
    
    wrh

    I have seen and used both the Sony and Recoton adapter - they seem
    to be identical, except that the tape head inside the cassette-like
    package on one is a double-track head (with only one side used)
    and the other is a single-track head.  I don't remember which is
    which, but it doesn't seem to matter much.  Both have the hubs
    connected by a sort of rubber band, which makes both hubs always
    turn at the same speed, no matter which is driven.
    
    Bruce
    

	If anybody's interested...

	Ann & Hope, a discount department store chain with stores in
	Massachusetts and Rhode Island, is selling the Pioneer CDX-P1
	car CD player for $199.95! This sale is for 2 days only; July
	2nd and 3rd. Also at $199.95 is the Pioneer KE-A880(?) tuner/
	cassete unit.

	There is a catch though... the small print states that each
	store only has 6 "assorted" units and NO rainchecks. Bummer.

							Larry

    Spark-o-Matic makes a CD-to-Car adapter that works slightly differently
    than the Reticon system- it's a tiny FM Stereo transmitter that
    takes the CD output, modulates it (in stereo) onto a 90.1 MHz FM
    signal, and runs that signal into your car FM tuner.
    	
    The little box also makes the proper voltage to run a D-7 or D-5.
    I've had one for over a year, no problems except a blown fuse when
    I plugged a completely dead battery onto the D-7 and the power surge
    popped the .75 amp fuse.  Solution- either run only the player (no
    battery attached) or run it on batteries first to verify that the
    battery has some charge left in it..
    	
    Sound quality is fine- better than tapes played directly through
    the cassette player.  The little box can be stuck anywhere under
    the dash and two cords (power + stereo signal) come out.
     
    Cost- about $20 at K-Mart.
    

   
     re: 802.2
     
    
    Opinion:
    
          1.   > fidelity of CD's are negated by the road and engine noise.
    
          2.   > Your attention should be focused on the road instead
                 of the stereo.
    
    
    I'd like to comment on the above two opinions. First off there are
    alot of cars out today that have no audible engine noise within
    the interior and insignificant levels of road noise. I could imagine
    what kind of car this person must own to be against having CD sound in the
    car. I would have to say you should experience it in the correct manner
    before making such a general statement.
                        
    	Secondly, it shouldn't make any difference whether you play
    tapes or CD's , your attention level should be the same. Its true
    that some people can't listen to stereo and drive safely at same time.
    Maybe this guy has a problem doing both, but I can speak for the
    majority of the people who have CD Stereo systems in their
     cars. 
    
        There ain't nothing finer! (YET)
    
    
                                                          A Happy YCD-1000
                                                                 Owner
          
                  

    Re/ .22:
    
    I can't believe there are ANY cars around today with "no audible engine
    noise within the interior."  At least, not cars with internal
    combustion engines.  Sure, some are quieter than others, but I'm sure
    that even in a Rolls, you could tell by the sound whether the engine
    was running or not.
    
    Secondly, a compact disc could be more distracting than tape, since
    it has a wider dynamic range.  You could be listening to a quiet
    passage in the music, and suddenly be jolted out of your seat by
    a louder section.  Even without such dramatic cases, when I'm at
    home, I find that LPs and tapes are easier to listen to as background
    music, because CDs make me want to pay attention to the music. 
    They're hard to ignore. 

    re earlier:
    
    There are NO cars with NO appreciable noise. The *quietest* that
    has been made as far as noise goes was a late 70's Lincoln Town
    car (according to several car magazines) and its background noise
    at IDLE was 54dB, at 70 MPH it was 66dB.
    
    Now, if you add the dynamic range of the typical CD �80dB(~) to
    that 54 dB you are talking ear damage if you set your volume to
    hear the quiet tones, when a loud peak comes along. Conversely,
    if you set the volume for a loud peak, then you will lose all the
    quiet ones. A tape has lower range and is more compatible.
    
    Attention is a seperate issue.
    
    David
    

    Build a signal compressor.  Then you can still use discs and hear
    all the passages.  But perhaps this defeats the whole thing.  Of
    course, you'd be best off using headphones, but that is probably
    illegal in most states (probably should be).
    
    -Steve

All right, already!

Despite the fact that a car's interior is not the most optimum for listening
to music on CD, it is still much more enjoyable than cassettes or FM because
THE MUSIC SOUNDS BETTER!  Isn't that enough?  And it is almost as 
convenient.

Sure, if you slip some classical selection or new age on the CD, you're
gonna miss a lot of it in the car.  But for most jazz and rock recordings,
it can't be beat!  I do my serious listening at home and my groove music
listening on the road.

AAA

    re .24
    
    At 70 MPH, it is unlikely that you experience much engine noise.
     Wind noise will most likely drown it out.
    
    I owned a 1981 Supra for a short period and found that at idle I
    could not detect the engine running from the driver's seat except
    by looking at the tach.  I do agree, however, that the ambient noise
    in a car environment would rule out total compatibility with wide
    dynamic range CD's.
    

    I don't completely agree that CD dynamic range in incompatible with
    the car environment.  It took a bit of ingenuity, but I have more
    or less solved the problem to my satisfaction.
    
    I use the Recoton adapter into my radio/cassette player.  This plugs
    into the earphone jack on my D-7, which allows me to control the
    output level.  I set the output level way down, and the radio volume
    at about 2/3 (right before where it starts to put out hiss) and
    this works rather well.  Initially I found that I had to set the
    volume control on the D-7 so low that it was tricky to get it right.
    I solved this by getting a new set of speakers that took a bit more
    power to drive them (they also sound MUCH better than the old stock
    speakers in my car).  Now I can turn up the volume on the D-7 far
    enough that it's less tricky to set, and I get very good sound at
    a reasonable dynamic range.  I only have 2 or 3 discs where I find
    myself juggling the volume, and none that suddenly blow me out of
    the car.  Not even when the 4th movement of Mahler's 1st begins...
    
    As for those who can't drive and listen at the same time, it probably
    takes more than technology to solve that problem.  We all have our
    personal shortcomings, and we each have to do whatever's necessary
    to overcome them.  I'm just glad that my own don't include problems
    with listening while driving - I'd go crazy during my hour of commute
    each way to work!
    
    Bruce
    

I need something before I even CONSIDER cds in the car.

I do not like the idea of the jewel box in the car because it takes up too much 
space.

What I'm looking for is a manila or light cardboard envelope, preferrably 
with a foam lining onthe iside to inhibit scratching.  That way, you could 
handle CDs in the car with one hand and you would be able to store more per 
square inch.

Does such a thing exist in the New England area?  I'd have a hard time 
selecting 10 CDs out of my collection for the 'jukebox' type changers 
so....

    
    Re/ .29:
    
    There are cases made of nylon (and/or possibly other fabrics) which
    are designed for carrying CDs around without the jewel boxes.  Some
    of these are designed to be glued onto a Sony portable player. 
    I think most of these would be designed to carry around 6 to 10
    discs, although I don't know for sure.
    
    I agree with you that the jewel box is pretty unwieldy to handle
    while driving.

    Yes, it's sort of available, but not a good idea.
    
    Lechmere in Nashua has a "CD Wallet" for about $12 which will hold
    six discs in a wallet about 1/2" high.  It's a sort of velour inside.
    The problem is that sliding discs in and out of the pockets scratches
    them if there's even a small amount of dust in there - and it's
    impossible to clean inside the pockets once they get dirty.  The velour
    holds onto dust very tenaciously.  And the scratches that happened
    to me were almost all in the worst direction possible.  I stopped
    using that wallet FAST after just one airplane trip with it and
    my D-7, luckily before it ruined any of my discs.
    
    Bruce

    The envelopes that floppy discs come in are made of a special lint-free
    paper.  These might potentially be useable for CD storage, but I
    haven't tried them.

    
    Things to keep in mind about car stereo....
    
    
    	- A stereo system is only as good as the weakest component.
          The quality of the CD players will usually exceed most car
          amp/speakers.

        - Outside noises, engine noise, ignition noise, and inside acoustics
          affect sound quality.
    
    	- Adapters will affect sound quality.
    
    	- Inside automobile environment is "hell" to all music media.
    
 	- Be sure to yield Right-of-way to emergency vehicles.
    
       
    
         
    						-Paul
    

    Re: .33
    
    And don't forget to always rotate your tires. Sorry, couldn't resist.
    
    	Mike

    RE .34
    
    I always rotate my tires while driving.
    
    Otherwise, they wear too fast.

    I have to say that having used the car adaptor with my SONY D10,
    I am now considering getting a radio/cassette with a line-in option.
    The adaptor is OK for rock/pop but really good quality (ie,
    chrome/metal) cassettes sond lots better to me - particularly for
    classics. My last radio/cassette came with circuit diagrams so I
    did it myself, but no such luck on the Philips.
    
    wrh

I recently received a catalog from a Sharper-Image-ish compant that 
specialized in yuppie golf and portable sound equipment.  They offered a slim 
plastic device that holds CDs by the edge.  When opened, the device folds back 
in the middle of the side with the CD in it, to give you easy access.  
Interesting, but not cheap.

I used to carry my collection in the car in a modified CD carrying case.  It 
allowed me to take 25 cds in a space meant for 12.  Once my collection got too 
big, I started taking just the 4-5 I wanted to hear that day.  I found that 
once I cleaned the last 3 years worth of Gas receipts and all the other junk 
out of my glove box, I had more than enough room.  I find for the usual back 
and forth to work trips, I don't mind deciding in the morning.  For longer 
trips, I still bring the case with a wider variety of music.

						     
							- JP

    re: .15 .16

    I borrowed a Recoton adaptor to try in my Pioneer car cassette player
    and lo and behold it worked. What's more I even managed to find
    a shop here that sells the Recoton adaptors.

    Colin.