Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    
    No, not yet.
    
    The 12" singles (vinyl) are being pulled in local area record stores
    because they don't sell as well as cassettes and CD's. There has
    to be some room on the floor for the new medium, and something must
    go... in this case it's the 12". Big deal, you say, but as a dj
    with no connections to record companies or a pool, it's disaster.
    Some record companies are eyeing the "CASSINGLE", a 30 minute cassette
    as the solution, which is fine for the average customer but NFG
    for the dj.
    
    I always thought that the CD single would be too expensive for the
    RC to produce, and still make a profit. It is a natural medium for
    the dj, as there already is a pro player which has all the
    functionality of the record/turntable combo (Technics CDP-1200).
    Insofar as new releases go, the CDsingle is a decent alternative.
    However, as most CD collectors know, there is an awful lot of material
    on vinyl that isn't, and probably won't, be converted to CD. So
    now we have to carry around both turntables and records as well
    as CD players and CD's.
    
    Life in the future is tough, sometimes 8^).
    
    CdH
    

    
    12" singles are being removed from stores?  jeez, I can't ever imagine
    that happening in the UK.  A lot of people would rather spend the
    extra cash and get a long version/different mixes than get the basic
    7" 45.  As an aside.....my choice of CD player was influenced by
    the fact that as a DJ I didn't want to buy CD's *and* LP's if I
    could possibly help it, so I needed one I could use both in the
    studio and at home, I eventually settled for the Philips CD10 portable. 
    Nice player, and about 300pounds cheaper than the Technics Pro!
    The Philips has two *large* press-pads for play/pause and stop/clear
    program, which is perfect for a clumsy jock like me, none of this
    fiddling with tiddly buttons like the Technics (portable, not pro)
    
    What I want to know is.....if Virgin can put out a CDsingle for
    the same price as the vinyl 12", why am I still having to pay 10pounds
    for a CDlp!?
    
                          Ian!
                                                                          
    

    I got the China Crisis one yesterday - it is really good value.
    Simple Minds was sold out so if you see it anywhere round Basingstoke,
    Ian, BUY IT. I'll have it off yer when I see yer.
    
    I also got a 20 minute version of "Warriors of the Wasteland" by Frankie
    goes to Hollywood for the same price (�3.29).
    
    The Dire Straits "Love over Gold" CD single now sells for at least �50
    and as much as �250 if you go to the wrong place... 

    Incidentally, for UK'ers, Tower Records can bankrupt you! Be warned...
    but NO CLASSICALs!

    
    two more CD singles just released in the UK....
    
    Ward Brothers - "Cross That Bridge" contains;-
    						   7" version
    						  12" version
    						  Instrumental
    						  "Easy Prey"
    
    Bob Geldof - "Love Like A Rocket" contains;-
    						 7" version
    						12" version
    						"This is the world calling"
    						"Pulled Apart By Horses"
    						"Truly, True Blue"
    (All titles taken from the Geldof album "Deep In The Heart of Nowhere")
                                                  
    
                                       Ian!
     
    

    3 more UK releases;-
    
    Gary Moore - "Wild Frontiers"
    
    Genesis - "Tonight Tonight Tonight"
    
    Carly Simon - "Coming Round Again" (Theme from "Heartburn")
    
    The music industry has finally decided they're going to call these
    CDsingles "mini-CD"s, not really a good title since they're the
    same size as any other CD!  They've departed from the 12" single
    format too, you now get as many as 6 tracks on a mini-CD lasting
    30 minutes, the good news is that the price is still a paltry three
    pounds twenty nine pence!  (do you US folks get mini-CDs yet?  you're
    missing out y'know....!)
    
    	      			Ian!

        
        I just recently read in Billboard how some companies are
        planning to adopt a three inch, approx. 20 minute, CD `single'
        format.  The developers say the info format is totally compatible
        to the regular CD's, but that existing players will need an
        adapter to accomodate the size.  They expect future players
        to have the adaptor built in.  Also mentioned in the article
        was the anticipated price of near $5; not TOO bad when you
        consider the current prices of twelve inch singles.

    re .-2




		Great,but where can you buy them?

bob

    re: CD singles in US?
    
    I've seen a couple, but they were UK imports, not domestic
    releases. Unfortunately, due to their being imports, the
    prices are a little too high.
    
    I have two in my collection. Andy Leslie brought me a copy
    of the China Crisis one, and I found one of Suzanne Vega in
    Minneapolis (and have since seen it around Boston). BCD also
    has one of Paul Simon that includes the extended version of
    "The Boy in the Bubble".
    
    --- jerry

    re: -2
    
    Bob, get 'em at Our Price, or HMV, or Virgin.  The other stores
    don't know what they are/don't stock them.  The Carly Simon single
    is already difficult to get hold of although it was only released
    a week ago (most CDsingles are limited editions....), and Our Price
    *won't* order it for you.  The reason?  Well..turns out that RCA
    (her label) have decided they're going to refuse any records that
    are returned by the shops as being naff (i.e. the shop has to meet
    the cost of the naff record from it's own pocket) and they are also
    going to put up the price of all their LP's.  Our Price have taken
    a stand by refusing in turn to order any extra copies of RCA releases
    on the principle that unless someone makes some sort of objection
    to RCA's practices, soon *all* the labels will put up their
    prices/adopt the same tactics.  Good luck to 'em! (Our Price, *not*
    RCA!)
    					Ian!
    

    .6> ... some companies are planning to adopt a three inch, approx. 20
    .6> minute, CD `single' format.  ... existing players will need an
    .6> adapter to accomodate the size. ...

    I guess that the LV manufacturers had a little more foresight.  When 8"
    discs were introduced, they played on all existing players.

    -- Ward

    Currently there is a Peter Gabriel, 5 track CD single available
    here.
    
    I get mine from Simons Records in Yateley, for southern UK folk.

        
        re .-1
        
        What's on it??!!??!?!?!!?

    
    
    what's on it?  
    
    Big Time - extended version
    Curtains
    No Self Control
    Across the River
    Big Time - edit
    
    that's what's on it..it's a limited edition, so BUY BUY BUY! :-)
    Huey Lewis & The News have just released "Simple As That" in the
    UK instead of "Jacob's Ladder" as in the U.S., and it's also available
    on mini-CD, dunno the contents tho coz they all went before I could
    get my grubby little paws on one! 
    
    
    						Ian!

    Under which label is the 12" Gabriel CD released?

    Also, will this CD be released in the US?  On Geffen?

    
    It probably won't be released in the US. Check with BCD. If it isn't
    to be released, drop me a mail, I'll see what I can do...

    
    Well, I once again must recommend Simons Records in Yateley for the
    benefit of IBL, they have plenty of Gabriel & Huey Lewis singles.
    
    Incidentally the "Across the River" Gabriel track is definitely
    weird!

    

        
        re .-1
        
        How is the `Curtains' track?  I've never heard of that song
        before.
        
        `Across the River' is one of my fave Gabe tunes, you might
        be interested to know that that's Stewart Copeland (sp?) on
        the drums.  I've been wanting to get it on CD, but it was
	previously only available on the WOMAD compilation.

        Rob

	re: .-1

	A `Best of WOMAD' album *is* available on CD.  It includes
	"Across the River".  Sound quality is very good.

	"Curtains" is also available on the B-side of the new US release
	of the single "Don't Give Up" (7-inch).

        
        Rob
        

	Anybody hear anything about a new promo CD of "Cloudbusting"
	by Kate Bush?

        
        re .20
        
        Yup.  Track list is as follows:
        
        Cloudbusting (LP version)
        The Man With the Child In His Eyes
        Sat in Your Lap
        Cloudbusting (Organon mix)
        
        The first three are noted as being `From the LP "The Whole
        Story."'  I think EMI/America is trying to keep attention on
        that LP as a) it's quite possibly the best she's sold stateside,
        b) the release date for the next LP has just been pushed into '88,
        and c) rumor has it she's moving to Geffen.

	R

re .-1,.-2
        

	I suppose these are only available in the UK, huh?
	Any ideas when the US will see 12" CDs?

	-marc

    re:.22
    
    Some of the CD-EP's make it over here, but admittedly not
    many.
    
    --- jerry

    I'd offer to bring over some, but the Kate Bush is US ONLY, the
    Peter Gabriel "Big Time" CD single was withdrawn after an initial
    pressing of 2000 because it is too long for inclusion in the single
    charts - over 25 mins - and the Genesis ones are sold out.
    
    Sorry about that.

    
    when (if) mini-CD's *do* make it to the U.S., it will be interesting
    to see how they're priced.  Currently the record companies seem
    to be having difficulty arriving at a "standard".  The Huey Lewis
    mini-CD "Simple As That" is priced at 5.99, the Blow Monkeys mini-CD
    is 3.99, and the Thompson Twins mini-CD is 3.29!  All these mini-CD's
    have four tracks and last approx 20 mins.  The Huey Lewis CD is
    actually the shortest, and it isn't an import because "Simple As That" 
    has only been released in the UK, in the US they released "Jacob's
    Ladder", right?
                                Ian!_hoping_for_some_uniformity!
    
    P.s. as a matter of interest, a UK marketing magazine ran a CD survey
    which indicated that most of the good ol' British public who *don't*
    have CD players (and that's the *big* majority) are not balking
    at the idea of paying 200.00-300.00 for a player, but are instead 
    "waiting" for CD prices to fall below 10.00, 9.95 seems to be the
    ideal price.  It could be a long wait.
    				          

    Is it any cheeper to produce a CD with 10 minutes of music vs. a
    74 minute CD?  Would a smaller size CD, i.e., 2 or 3 inch diameter,
    be cheeper to produce than the standard size.  Is it possible for
    a standard unit to play different size CD's?  Maybe with an adapter?
    Perhaps the reason that the CD was designed to be played from the
    the center to the edge, is to accomodate different size disks.
    
    My guess is that a CDsingles costs almost as much to manufacture as
    a full length CD.  Manufacturing costs are a greater percentage
    of the total costs for CDs, than they are for LP's/45's.  I doubt
    that the '12"CD' will be available, until it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheeper
    to produce.                                
    
    
    						-Paul 

    It's indeed cheaper to produce a 10 minute CD than a 74 minute CD,
    but not really cheaper than a 59 minute CD.  CDs longer than 60
    minutes are more difficult to produce, because of the need to use
    a different master tape, more chance of defects towards the edge,
    and other reasons.  See the May Digital Audio for some info on this.
    
    But note that the manufacturing cost is only part of the selling
    price - royalties to the musicians are significant too.
    
    				Steve

        The Kate Bush mini-CD is not only a US only release, but
        PROMOTIONAL.  Technically, this means it's illegal for any
        one to sell you one.  I bought one for myself and one for a
        friend at a used record store here in L.A. for $3.88 a piece.
        
        R

    I saw something recently in one of the zillion magazines I get
    about a new mini-CD format with 3.14 inch discs.  While recorded
    the same as the standard CDs, few current players can handle
    them mechanically.  There's supposed to be some support for it
    in future players, and maybe an adapter.
    
    				Steve

    The record companies are at it again.....
    
    It seems that mini-CD's have been taking sales away from the ordinary
    45's....so, there is going to be a new UK Chart specifically for
    mini-CD's.  That's all very well, but there's a catch....in an effort
    to divert singles sales back to vinyl, future mini-CD's will only
    be issued *after* the vinyl equivalents have dropped out of the
    UK Chart!  This comes as something of a blow to anyone keeping a
    current mini-CD collection for use at discos/on radio, since by
    the time the CD's are issued, the records will be old news.
    What I'd really like to know is, why are they so bothered about
    falling vinyl sales?  Anybody got any ideas?
    
    							Ian!
    
    P.s. the first disc to be issued under this new regime is "It's
         A Sin", by the Pet Shop Boys
    

RE: .30

Well, THAT's quite a twist, considering the general trend towards forcing 
people to buy CD vs. vinyl!  How ironic, too that it should happen with the 
one vinyl format most in need of obsolescence!


				Mark

We still don't have CD singles over here at all.

re .32

Except as imports.  Rockit Records in Nashua has some.

RE: .33

I was at Rockit Records in Nashua yesterday and can verify your statement.  
There weren't that many, but they had them!

They also had a new Bowie single, casette only, which hopefully will be 
released on vinyl soon as it has a non-album B-side.

It does look as though 7" singles are being phased out by a combination of 
casette singles and eventually CD singles.


				Mark

    There have been many promo-only CD singles in the states, though.

    R

    How much does a CD single cost?
    
    <<$10 I hope!
    
    

    ah, that's another sore point.........!
    (the following prices are all in pounds sterling, ok?)     
    
    Initially the price was 3.49 for a CD single, which was the *same*
    price as the 12" vinyl 45!  Good value for sure (except that it
    makes you wonder how they justify such inflated prices for the album
    CDs!).  Recently the prices have risen to 3.79-3.99, getting on
    for the price of a vinyl album.  So long as they settle there, it'll
    still be ok by me....BUT.......George Michael's "I want your sex"
    was released as a CD single with 20 minutes of music (three tracks...
    7" version, remix, and instrumental..pretty standard stuff) for
    7.49!!!!!!!!!  I didn't buy it.  I hope *that* pricing scheme doesn't
    catch on.  Talking to my local record shop it seems to have failed
    miserably....but then again maybe this is yet another record co.
    ruse to drive sales back to vinyl!   The mind boggles.......!
                                                      
    						Ian!
    

                                    
    
    CD singles are set to bite the dust.  It seems that the record
    companies have decided that they don't justify the cost of manufacture,
    so in a few months there will be no CD singles on shelves anywhere.
    Collectors, get ready!    
    
    				Ian!

    Yep, I saw that article too. I also saw that Gallup are starting
    a new CD singles poll that will be playlisted on the BBC and Capital
    Radio (in the UK), so DON'T PANIC!

I thought the CD single was going to be a smaller CD, in cheap packaging, that 
would be placed inside a CD adaptor to conform to normal CD size for the 
players to accept it as a legitimate disc.  I can't see how this would be too 
expensive to produce.


				Mark

    
    As far as I am aware, all CD singles issued have been regular size.
    An aside.....the pricing scheme seems to be settling down, Virgin
    now have an across-the-board rate of 7.99 for a CD-single (which is,
    in my opinion, extortionate), I guess my collection stops here.
    
    						Ian!

    Re/ .40, .41:
    
    Thus far, there have been cd singles which have been the same size
    as regular cds.  Sony is now pushing a cd single on a smaller (3"?)
    disc, which should be cheaper than regular sized discs.  I'm not
    sure why it'll be cheaper, since it will require new manufacturing
    facilities, and, ultimately, the same manufacturing process.  I
    doubt that the savings on materials will amount to much, but they're
    expecting the 3" singles to sell for $2 or $3.
    
    The 3" single will come with an adaptor, so it can be played on
    a normal player.  Sony is also planning small portable players which
    (presumably) can handle the 3" discs, but not 5".

    About a month ago, Entertainment Tonight did story on the CDsingle.
    They stated that the CDsingle will be discontinued in favor of the
    * CHEEPER *.  Cassette Single.  CassSingle will be packaged in
    cardboard box and sell for the same price as a 45.  ($1.xx)
    
    
    						-Paul
    

                           
    Re: -1
    
    		...strictly for the birds.     :-)
    
    Re: pd
    		Sony are going to make players that *only* take the
                3" CD?  It'll be interesting to see how much music they can get
                on one of these discs, coz if it's only 25 minutes or so that 
    		makes the market pretty limited.  I for one wouldn't want to be 
   		restricted to playing singles...!
    
    							Ian!