Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Obviously...taking your eyes off God, stumbling in your walk, and not
    walking the talk.
    
    This is something I personally have to deal with from time to time but
    I truly believe I can't be tight lipped in fear of losing my
    credibility.
    
    -Jack

<---I'm left speechless by your 2nd paragraph....... I think your 1st is GREAT!

    Speechless?  As in, you admire my humility????
    
    Surprise surprise (Add English accent here!) :-)

Chronically misinterpreting English:
===================================
	How can you find credible the interpretation of ancient sacred works
  translated from Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew by someone who repeatedly
  demonstrates difficulty interpreting your own common language?
  How can you find credible someone who misrepresents your own words?


Vulgarity:
=========
	Demonstrates a deficit, at least, to me.


Snarfing:
========
	To me, snarfing is the noting equivalent of sticking out your tongue
  and making a goofy face as the camera flashes.  It's hard for me to believe
  that anyone who wants to be taken seriously would do it (more than once
  anyway).

	I mention snarfing with some hesitation, as I fear it may become
  the dominant focus within this string.

Richard

    Richard:
    
    I'll address this only one time so as not to carry on.
    
    To me, snarfing is like coming out with a joke in the middle of a
    serious debate.  Reagan and Kennedy were notorious for this..it
    lightened up the atmosphere and has shown to be a good breaker of
    tension.  
    
    Making a big deal about snarfs is a non issue.  I am a snarfer and am
    now telling you what my intent is; therefore, there is nothing to fear!
    
    -Jack

 ZZZ     How can you find credible someone who misrepresents your own words?
    
    This too is easy to explain.  Typically, the giver of the words in the
    first place can at times base what they say on faulty logic or
    contradiction.  
    
    Take poor George Stephanopolous for example...or Dee Dee Myers.  That
    poor woman did an excellent job keeping Bill Clinton as close to
    cohesiveness as possible.  The presidents policy was....err....changed
    from week to week.  Dee Dee did the best she could to maintain
    integrity in the administration but the bottom line is that her boss
    was the one with the credibility problem...and everybody saw she wasn't
    the culprit.
    
    Now if a Jim Jones came into Christian-Perspective and spouted off his
    false teaching, then my confusion in addressing these issues wouldn't
    count as a credibility issue with me, but with him!
    
    -Jack

    Richard:
    
    Whether it is true or not isn't an issue.  I'm telling you as a culprit
    here that snarfing has nothing to do with being perjorative toward
    anybody.
    
    Unsophisticated???  Perhaps...you want this forum to be like the Dead
    Poets Society?
    
    -Jack

    .5

    Well, Jack, I don't find your analogy credible.
    
    Richard
    

    .7
    
    I'm only saying it affects credibility for me.
    
    And I don't understand your analogy with the Dead Poets Society.
    (I did see the movie)
    
    Richard
    

    I consider poetry to be somewhat dull for the most part.  Just couldn't
    get into it.  I feel the conference needs a little silliness from time
    to time!
    
    Re: Credibility...well, I am trying to dispell this feeling you have
    about snarfing.  The conclusion I draw is that you simply don't believe
    me...that you think I'm pulling a Limbaugh...insisting I am not
    insulting you when supposedly I am.  Is that it?
    
    -Jack

| <<< Note 1169.3 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

| Speechless?  As in, you admire my humility????

	No, that you only thought it was from time to time. :-)

    Grrrrrrrrrrrrr........... >:<>)

    .10
    
    Please reread .4.
    
    Richard
    

    Richard:
    
    You left a ton of room for ambiguity in .4.
    
    Exactly WHO is someone in this case?
    
 ZZ     Aramaic and Hebrew by someone who repeatedly
 ZZ     demonstrates difficulty interpreting your own common language?
    
    Is this somebody who doesn't understand the English language?  Is this
    somebody who has a persistent habit of not listening?  Is this string
    inspired by somebody you know personally, somebody in this conference,
    a group of people one is instructing??  What is the prime directive of
    starting this topic?
    
    Until this is disclosed, it becomes a guessing game.  Not sure what 
    reply you are looking for.
    
    -Jack

.14

>    Until this is disclosed, it becomes a guessing game.  Not sure what 
>    reply you are looking for.

Jack,

	No need for guessing.  I'm not looking for a particular reply.
And I'm not interested in pointing fingers at anyone.

	I'm only speaking for myself.  And all I'm saying is that *if*
one wants to be credible to me, he or she should be cautious to avoid
misinterpreting what I and others have said, and also should avoid
vulgarities and snarfing.

	Now, I realize not everyone cares whether or not I find them
credible.  But if I don't say anything, how is one to know?

Richard

    Well, credibility is important to me Richard.  Vulgarity I can
    certainly do without.  I think there are things stronger for deterring
    credibility than snarfing.  But if it will keep you from possible
    mistrusting, I will not snarf!!
    
    -Jack

    .16
    
    Jack,
    
    	I'm suddenly overcome with the urge to hug you!!  (In a very manly
    way, of course ;-})
    
    Richard
    

    Richard!  I'm touched!!!! :-)

<---yup....you are! :-)

    Grrrrrrrrrr.........

    I like the old Jack better.  This touchy, feely stuff is too much. ;-)

    From the American Heritage, 2nd college edition...
    
    credible (adj). 1. Believable; Plausible.  2. Trustworthy; reliable.
    
    
    In the context of this conference, what are we talking about?  

    
    The same...
    

    OK, let me spell it out.
    
    Is the Christian notion of God credible?
    Is the Christian Bible credible? (all of it?  parts?  which parts?)
    How do you test the credibility of these? 
    
    Or is it that credibility is a moot discussion given faith? (believe
    even if things seem incredible or unbelievable)
    
    To me, something or someone's credibility is used to help decide on
    what to believe or not believe in.  
    
    -dave

    
    RE .24

    Thanks for spelling it out. I was addressing the credibility of the
    messenger. A messenger who lack credibility, corrupts the message.

    Eric

      The basis for credibility is goodness of character.  The basis
      for not having credibility ought be lack of goodness of character.
      The ultimate basis for credibility is perfection of character.
    
      Right now, Christianity (myself included) is hardly credible.
      Some day I believe it will be.  God will produce a holy nation.
    
    						Tony

    re -.1
    
    "Goodness of character" is all one needs to be credible?  So if your
    car mechanic gives you a so called hot tip on some stock to purchase, 
    you should give credence to his advise because he happens to be a "good
    guy"?
    
    

    Perhaps not, but if your mechanic advises you on a sale of air filters,
    or fuel pumps, then he is credible if he/she has a good character.
    
    -Jack

    Yes!  And that's what was lacking in .26, and element of expertise or
    knowlege.  And, in the case of the car mechanic, you might estimate
    his/her level of expertise by researching factors like years of
    experience, repetoire of jobs accomplished, repetoire of cars worked
    on, success rate, etc... .   The "goodness" element also comes into
    play when you have to consider whether or not he/she is giving you
    the best advise he/she has for you and not, perhaps, advise that would
    lead you into buying parts/service that you didn't really need.  Both
    elements are needed.... "goodness" (or moral integrity as I prefer to
    think of it) as well as knowlege or experience.
    
    But in matters of faith, is credibility even a factor?  Would your faith 
    be shaken if someone or group of people attacked the credibility of Jesus? 
    the Bible?  Or does the act of faith bypass all of that?
    
    -dave

Z    But in matters of faith, is credibility even a factor?  Would your
Z    faith  be shaken if someone or group of people attacked the credibility of
Z    Jesus? the Bible? 
    
    In matters of faith...
    
    Well, credibility is a minor factor.  Consider Noah for example. 
    The man was a man of high reputation but unfortunately didn't fit the
    paradigm of society in those days.  He was Godly, they were ungodly;
    therefore, credibility still didn't achieve the hopeful goal and hence
    society was condemned.
    
Z    Would your faith  be shaken if someone or group of people attacked the
Z    credibility of Jesus? the Bible? 
    
    I believe not.  However, it has before, particularly when the attacker
    is good at manipulating the Bible and the I lack wisdom or
    knowledge of scripture.  The stronger one grows if faith, the more they
    are apt to stand up to attack.
    
    -Jack

There must've been something about Jesus that was credible.

There must've been something about Jesus' post-execution followers that
was credible.

There must've been something about Paul that was credible.

Shalom,
Richard

    Everyone's credile... to a point.
    
    One of the most credible people I've ever read was Thomas Aquinas.  He
    was a virtual genius and his powers of deductive reasoning were
    unrivaled.  His Summa Theologica was written to rationalize the 
    existence of God.  But even he said that all of his work was straw and
    that faith was what he really needed to believe in God.  
    
    If a total or near total lack of credibility does not shake one's belief 
    in God or the Bible, then there's no point in trying to connect the
    two.  If a rational belief in the God/Bible works... fine.  If not...
    fine.  The flavor of the beilef might change (rational or not) but the 
    belief itself stands in both cases.
    
    Yes? (No?)
    
    -dave
    
    
    

    re: .27
    
    Hi Dave,
    
      I thought it was implied that we were discussing matters of
      the heart.  
    
    						Tony