Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

                                     
    David,
    
    I do not know of any of the major recognized traditional religions 
    that prescribe these sorts of drugs (Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, 
    Christianity, etc.) 
    
    However, I have heard of some of the other cultures/religions, if you 
    will, that under controlled circumstances, do use 'drugs' in their 
    quest for God, or 'expanded consciousness'.  There is a book called
    "The Eagle's Quest", by physicist Fred Alan Wolf, that describes his
    experiences with an interesting drug while in Peru.
    
    What tends to happen with drugs, is that our rational, logical, western
    culture, boxes in our creativity and makes it difficult to access. 
    Some drugs tend to 'break down the walls' between rationality and
    creativity.
    
    One very interesting thing I heard from the yogi at the yoga center I
    go to, is that a regular person who uses LSD goes on a 'trip', and
    things can get interesting, blissful, wonderful, etc.  However, give
    several times that amount to an accomplished yogi, and it will have no
    effect.  The reason is that the yogi has reached that state of bliss
    already.
    
    I have not done these sorts of drugs myself, however I do have an
    interesting story.  Several years ago, I took a 3-day Inner Quest
    Intensive at the yoga center I go to, and at the end of the 3 days, we
    did a breathing exercise called 'rebirthing', or 'Vivation'.  It's very
    simple - lie down on the floor and inhale forcefully through your mouth 
    into your upper lungs, and passively exhale.  Do this for about 45
    minutes.  Though you'll feel dizzy, you won't hyperventilate because
    that only happens when you forcefully exhale.  You breathe in at about
    2-3 breaths per second, so it's a very rapid, circular breath.
    
    About 20 minutes into the breath, I felt more ecstasy, bliss,
    happiness, and joy than I'd ever felt in my life.  This breath, when
    done correctly, removes blocks in the energy field (and much more, but
    this is the basic idea.)  While in that state, I realized that all the
    people that have addictions - alcohol, drugs, sex, etc. - were really
    searching for this state of bliss.  It was so fabulous that I cannot
    describe it in words. 
    
    I guess that drugs might have helped me to achieve the same state, 
    however it made much more of an impact on me since I did not use 
    anything except the breath/oxygen to get there. 
    
    Cindy

    
    One addition - the breathing exercise does not have the same effect on
    everyone, nor has my experience been the same in times after that, that
    I have done the same breathing exercise.  It is dependent upon the
    blocks you have at the time, what happens in each session.  However, it
    does get you closer to that bliss each time, in any case. 
    
    Cindy

    
    -1-2
    
    
    Cindy,
    
     Thank you for that entry. It never ceases to amaze me how many topics
    your have good info on.
    
    David

 My use of drugs, while for a while taking me farther away from the Lord,
 eventually woke me up to the fact that I was wasting my life away using
 them.  LSD never made me feel any closer to God, although while under its
 influence one evening at a Grateful Dead concert I began to realize that
 I missed the Lord and His people in my life.  So perhaps it did help, but
 I most certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone.




 Jim

    
    
    I remember dropping LSD and then shortly afterwords my sister comes
    down to the park and announces that my Father was having an unannounced
    bible study. Topic for study, revelations and the Beast.. I shiver to
    this day. Half of the way through I broke down crying and spilled my
    guts to my Dad. He was very kind and just asked that I please go to
    my room for the remainder of the night.
    
    David

    -1
    
    David... I'm sorry I know there is absolutely no humor in your note,
    but for the life of me, I find it funny that you dropped drugs and Dad
    calls a Revelations meeting. Sorry...  :-) :-)
    
    Praise God he was as kind as he was to you.
    
    -2
    
    Jim, I remember getting high on pot [too scared to do anything else]
    and believing that I was now in that transcendental stage of
    meditation... but it wasn't about God.  It typically sparked my sensual
    side ... Hmmmm  

    Peyote is used by some Indians. I remember the court case where they
    were allowed to continue to use the drug in their religion.
    
    Marc H.

    .7
    
    Marc, you jolted my memory... I remember it too.  I remember some kids
    who weren't indian, wanting conversion. :-):-)

    
    
    Nancy,
    
     I can laugh at it today but oh Lordy was it rough when it happened,
    especially when he talked about the beast :-)
    
    
    David

 Re .5 

 YIKES =:-O



 

    
    Re.3
    
    Thanks, David.  You know, I'll never forget those moments.  It was a
    greater sense of consciousness and awareness than I've ever known.  I
    'realized' far more in the last 20 minutes of the experience than I 
    can ever begin to convey.  And not being 'under the influence' of 
    anything was the best part.
    
    Re.6    
    
    >Jim, I remember getting high on pot [too scared to do anything else]
    >and believing that I was now in that transcendental stage of
    >meditation... but it wasn't about God.  It typically sparked my sensual
    >side ... Hmmmm  
    
    Nancy, that wasn't a transcendental stage of meditation - I can tell
    you that for certain.  And it wasn't God either.
    
    One thing I forgot to mention earlier was that while drugs can give 
    you a glimpse of possibilities beyond the rational mind, ultimately 
    they cannot keep you there. Unfortunately though, this is where most 
    people become addicts, believing that it can.  
    
    On the other hand though, I can 'call back' that state of consciousness
    I was in, anytime I choose, without doing drugs or anything else - even
    the breathing exercise (though this does help.)
     
    Eventually, perhaps, I may be able to live in that awareness all the
    time, and I'm getting there, however there are still many things that I
    must work through before that.
    
    Cindy

    Never used psychedelics, myself.  Tried pot over 20 years ago.  Didn't
    like it.  Never understood why others did.
    
    Gave up tobacco over 13 years ago.  I do have a rare Martini though.
    
    None of these substances ever brought me closer to God.
    
    Richard
    

    .11
    
    
    I *know*... I *know* :-) :-)
    
    Now about the other, I believe our bodies are wonderfully made and that
    there is much in the way of its works that are not tapped into.  Isn't
    God wonderful!!

    RE: .12
    
    Well, I wouldn't go into the past...but...nowadays I enjoy my
    homemade beer. Although Old Granddad and soda water sure tastes good!
    
    Marc H.

    
>    Gave up tobacco over 13 years ago.  I do have a rare Martini though.
 

     gave up tobacco 9 months ago..never heard of a rare martini..I used to
     drink mine dry ;-)

   


 Jim    
 
         

    
    >Isn't God wonderful!!!
    
    Awoman to that!  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    Awoman//!!  Ms. Painter...I thought I spent considerable time
    straightening you out on this!! :-)  Awwww forget it!!!
    
    Not presenting this as a factoid, but more a question.  In the greek,
    the word for sorcery is pharmakia...what does this sound like to you..?
    Pharmacy!  This is where we get our name for drugs.  The question is
    one of how Paul condemns the practice of sorcery as do many of the OT
    writers.
    
    Did the act of sorcery involve the use of drugs?
    
    -Jack

    Anybody know the etymology for the word "apothecary," which is what
    the pharmacy used to be called?
    
    Richard
    

    
    Jack,
    
    >Awww forget it!!!
    
    Done!  (;^)
    
    I have absolutely no idea about sorcery and drugs, at least in the way
    you are probably defining sorcery (women using evil spirits, Jaffar -
    the sorcerer in Aladdin, etc.)  
    
    While I'm certain that there were and are people who do these sorts of 
    things, there were/are also people who were labeled sorcerers and
    witches who did *not* use herbs for evil purposes, but rather used them
    to heal...the system before our allopathic system of medicine came into
    being.  So this could be the connection between sorcery, the Greek word
    'pharmakia', and so on.  It could well be that the word 'sorcery' once 
    stood for a positive/non-evil occupation.
    
    There's also the word 'apothecary' which is Greek in origin.  It means
    'pharmacist' (modern definition) or 'a place to store', according to my 
    dictionary.  The Greek root is:  apotheca.   
    
    Cindy

    Good points!!

    Sounds like the wise woman tradition.  It was women with knowledge of 
    herbs and natural medicines that cured.  Pharmacy most likely evolved
    from this tradition.  These wise woman were identified as witches and
    murdered through much of the late middle ages into the 17th and 18th
    century.
    
    Patricia

    A quick response to JMARTIN about drugs... the answer in short is Yes
    and No. :-)

    Re: .22
    
    
    Well, that sort of sums it up!
    
    :)
    :)
    
    
    Marc H.