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>> The christian organizations everywhere are filled with people belonging
>> to God's church. They (we) are partakers of the same precious faith
>> that Peter, Paul and the other disciples had. We, whether in the
>> organization or outside it, are jewels in God's hands, with our faith
>> being tried to be even more precious than tried gold. But our
>> effectiveness in imparting this to non-believers through our meetings is
>> often weak.
I believe this is due in part to lack of prayer. Many of what we consider to
be the great theologians of the past two centuries literally spent hours in
prayer. Revival starts at the knees.
By the way, I'm guilty.
>> 1. Am I willing to bear reproach for Christ? (be an offense). I want to
>> encourage anyone, who like me have suffered a lot of reproach. Jesus
>> did too. And so did Paul. If people, even sometimes christians, are not
>> pleased with your attempts of obeying the spirit of God, yet God is!
True!!
>> Try to focus your life towards pleasing God. He can then help us
>> overcome our natural tendency of wanting to please people.
This involves being filled with the Spirit, a daily act!
>> 4. Do you baptise those who believe? It seems today a command which
>> only someone in a position in the church is allowed to do. But, if we
>> wish to make salvation available to everyone without requiring church
>> attendance, we need to again consider following the examples of men
>> such as Peter, Phillip and Paul, who baptised when someone believed.
As apostles, these individuals were considered leaders or elders at the time
since apostleship was the root of church founders. I believe it is the
responsibility of the church leadership to baptize but this would make a very
good note string in and of itself.
>> It
>> was baptism (outside of the organization) which made it clear in the
>> early church how someone might receive the fullness of forgiveness and
>> be reconciled to God. Believing and being baptised is a key for making
>> forgiveness easily accessable. (Note: the sinners prayer has a degree
>> of effectiveness, but baptism, the scriptual way, has a lot more. Seek
>> the Lord about it and try it).
If prayer is not the scriptural way, then it has absolutely no degree of
effectiveness. Baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine. It puts the onus
of works as a requirement for salvation. See Acts chapter 10 as an example,
I believe it's chapter 10). Individuals receiving the Holy Spirit prior to
baptism. One cannot receive the Holy Spirit until they are regenerated!
>> No other requirements were placed on the
>> early believers other than believing on Jesus, repenting and being
>> baptized. By being baptized, they are 'added to the church', the church
>> which does not have an organizational structure.
Of course it does. It is quite clear in 1st Corinthians the roles of women and
men. It is also written out in Titus and 1st Timothy that there is a
hierarchy of service within the local body. Now, when tradition infiltrates
the church, there I agree with you!!!
>> How Satan wishes to
>> make this unclear or invisible to the world. Once the world sees
>> baptism as in the time of John and Jesus and his disciples, as for the
>> forgiveness of their sins, they will be able to find the way to
>> salvation very easily.
>> Not only must the gospel be clearly preached.
>> The way of receiving the death and resurrection of Jesus(both faith and
>> baptism) need to be just as clear.
If you are referring to Acts 2:38, this passage does not place water baptism as
a prerequisite for salvation.
>> My wife went for years to a church
>> which preached the gospel, but they never told her how she could
>> receive it. Most everyone could tell you that Jesus died for their
>> sins, but almost nobody could speak of having been freed from their
>> sins, that they were no longer sinners, but saints.
This I believe holds true. The local church has been very weak in proclaiming
Christ's victory over sin and how according to Romans 8, we too can be
victorious.
>> Anyway, the last point I leave for you to judge. I must say it is
>> probably one of the strongest things that God has revealed to me and in
>> no way done justice in the few words expressed here. I only suggest it
>> as something you might consider, mixed with the grace and joy Jesus has
>> of anyone who proclaims him, with or without baptism.
To my brother in Christ, I hold you in high esteem for your desire to further
the gospel and encourage you strongly in the same. I don't know your
experience or knowledge depth but I strongly urge you to be sure you are
equipped fully and receive the discipleship needed to be strong in the faith.
Like I said, for all I know you may be old in the faith and discipling others,
and maybe have been for years. I'm not really sure!! I would be
interested in hearing your testimony, how yougot saved and what you have been
doing as a ministry since.
God Bless,
-Jack
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| Jack,
Thank you for your note and how carefully you read it! You are right
when you call me 'Brother', we both love Jesus and are God's children.
You asked me for my testimony. With joy I take this opportunity to tell
it.
At the age of 17, in 1972, I was a somewhat outspoken athiest, and the
last thing I would ever have wished was to be a disciple of Jesus,
since I thought it was just a 'man-made religion', lies. But as an
athiest, I also was really without 'hope' and had no purpose for life.
After all, we were taught that people were just as animals and their
life wasn't much more valuable than animals, just higher developed. (I
wrote for christians something more detailed exposing the foundation of
evolution and how these assumptions are inconcievable in light of
todays scientific knowledge). I heard the gospel many times, but was
proud and thought that 'I knew better'. When my friend Bruce returned
from the University of Berkley as a christian and began speaking about
Jesus, I thought 'I thought he was so smart. How could he have believed
such lies. We had hour long talks again and again, where I would try to
show him how he was wrong and he would testify to me about Jesus.
Well, needless to say, his prayers and testifying as well as those of
other precious saints who had shared with me about Jesus allowed Jesus
himself to begin speaking with me. There was a bible in our house and I
started reading it, haphazardly opening it. I once opened it to where
David had no fear of risking his life, even running towards Goliath. I
saw how God honored men who knew him, and I really cried, knowing that
this is really what I longed for, not the honor of men which my pride
often said.
Shortly thereafter I opened the bible to Mark 16:16 and read:
"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He
that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In
my name shall they cast out devils: they sall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it
shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall
recover."
This scripture came so hard at me that it literally destroyed my view
of what a christian was. I then called up my friend Bruce and asked him
whether these things still happen today or if they were only for the
past. He said that he knew of people speaking in tongues and healing
the sick. Through this vers God's calling on my life became real, even
before I believed. He was asking me to be one of these persons (I
believe he is asking this of ALL his disciples, but at this time it was
very direct to me). I saw him showing the same type of honor towards me
in performing these signs as he showed towards David. It was too good
to be true. But still, in my complete thought life I was a convinced
athiest through and through. Shortly thereafter as I was under our
walnut tree in our back yard I was thinking of these things and
compared Jesus to a Guru who at that time was claiming to be the same
as Jesus. As I looked at the Guru, it was like a glitter in darkness,
when I looked at Jesus, it was like pure light, speaking the truth even
when it would cause offense. Then I experienced in my thoughts him
speaking to me 'Can you believe?'. As I stood in his presence and
formulated my answer, 'I don't know if I can believe, but if is the
truth I want to.' This simple experience seemed to have really meant
something to Jesus, for from that time on I began to have many
experiences with him and felt his joy and honor towards me. In these
days he told me if I wished to follow him I needed to do everything
which the bible said. So as I began reading it, he would communicate
with me and even my weak attempts were greatly rewarded with his
pleasure towards me, maybe like a child which is beginning to walk.
During this time I was once in my brothers room meditating. Before
meditation was empty, now it was full of revelation and the presence of
Jesus. As I sat there, I thought of the vers 'Behold I stand at the
door and knock. If anyone hear my voice and open the door I will come
to him and sup with him, and he with me.' By this time I had already
decided that the purpose of my life was knowing Jesus, knowing God. His
purpose for me is what I wanted. I saw myself going to different parts
of the world and preaching the gospel, baptizing those who believed. I
also saw myself doing this with others in small groups. I saw also his
confirmation with many signs. As I thought, 'how do I make this door
open? I really want to 'sup' with Jesus. I kind of looked towards him
and thought 'Ho do I do this?', independant of myself I experienced his
presence in a very strong way, his desire to be close to me, similiar
to an outpouring of the holy spirit, though at this time I did not
speak in tongues. Afterwards, I took my Bible and sleeping bag and
began to hitch-hike into the mountains where I was planning to fast a
time to draw nearer to him. Little did I know that this was my last day
at home. After my fast I was hitch-hiking back home. Some young men
with long hair picked me up and started telling me of Jesus, and of 2
christian communes, one with 130 people and the other with 40. The Lord
again spoke to me and told me I would be there a long time. And so he
brought me into his church.
It was for me the best place in the world. At this time God's spirit
was being poured out in a great way. Everyone who became believers were
disciples(I am convinced this is God's plan) and we were all sent
throughout the earth to preach the Gospel. I was baptized almost
immediately after arriving in the pacific ocean. There were 30 of us.
The next day another 30 were baptized. And it didn't stop. Continually
God was adding to us. Whole hippy communes met Jesus. We started
sending teams throughout the earth. As fast as we would send teams,
just as fast would God bring more people to us. The first person I
baptized was within months of becoming a follower of Jesus. At that
time when someone came to Jesus, we prayed with them and then we took
them out and baptized them, laying our hands on them to receive the
holy spirit. It was a glorious time for all of us.
At first, I was really afraid of people. I just prayed. We had a prayer
cabin and for hours into the night almost every night we would pray and
'houl' in worship. But I continually saw myself in prayer preaching.
Then when I was 6 months as a christian, I became a donut man and began
selling donuts in Arcata, Calif. The whole purpose we had the donut
shop was only to preach the gospel to the community. Financially, it
was the worst company I had ever seen, but the one I love the most. We
would share the whole day long about Jesus while we were selling
donuts.
As the call went for our second team to Los Angeles, I too went with 30
others to preach the gospel there. We started christian houses and
within 2 years there were 200 of us all living communally. At this time
I prayed and experienced God speaking to me about going to Germany. I
left with 17 others in 1976 and moved to a small Lufthansa hotel in Munich.
As I arrived, there were 70 people in the house, people sleeping in the
garage, on the floors, in very overcrouded rooms, all there for the
specific purpose of preaching the gospel.
At about this time, however, it seemed that the spirit of God began to
depart. We had built a very impressive christian organization within
only a few years and had already become somewhat rigid. We loved Jesus
just as much as ever, but the time in prayer was no longer the same,
the miracles slowed down, and the conversions slowed down. I was so
much into it that I just thought it was the process similiar to when
Moses waited 40 years in the wilderness before his sending.
When I was a young christian, I was so excited being in this group that
I said, I want my whole life to be with this group! But immediately
came from above a very clear answer that this would not be.
Still, we preached the gospel, we baptized believers, we had
discipleship courses.
As a young christian, you absorb everything, and God's grace is there
that even if some things are wrong its o.k. But as you grow in Christ
and enter the 'Teenager years' you find that your parents are not
perfect. You also begin sensing God's unique call on your life, his
direct word to you. I began receiving a lot of revelation about
evangelism which nobody else had. Shortly thereafter I was ordained an
evangelist. But that was just the beginning. The revelation went
against some of the things I believed since being a young christian. I
remember thinking of Acts 2:38 as a young christian and thinking,
"Peter made a mistake. Baptism is not for the forgiveness of our sins.
Its faith alone. Its when you believe and accept Jesus as Lord in
prayer, when you ask for forgiveness." Later the spirit of God showed
me that Peter was right. Because our methods had changed and baptism no
longer happened when people believed the Gospel, we had also altered
the meaning of baptism. It became symbolic, an open confession. It was
no longer the way a sinner became a disciple.
We then began to have people in our churches who were baptized as
babies or not baptized at all. Almost nobody would be baptized the day
they believed, which is the way it happened in every example in the new
testament. We had substituted a prayer in its place. Baptism became
formalized and was no longer as fresh, as 'God-honored' as at first.
I had many talks about this subject. Many may disagree with me, but
maybe we should consider it this way, 'In the early church they always
baptized on the day that people believed the Gospel. Why not today?'
Whether a person believes on baptismal regeneration or not, the
question is hardly relevant when 'all who gladly received his words
were baptized'. My wish is not to judge whether there were people at
the time of Peter who believed but refused to be baptized, but rather
to take the example of Peter and follow it. Not for my doctrine sake,
but for the sake of making the Gospel and baptism as accessible as
possible.
So even with these differences, I was sent out to begin a new church in
East Germany in 1991. I took with me almost exclusivly those who we had
brought to Christ or had baptized. All except one married couple had
partaken in our discipleship teaching courses in Munich. By this time I
had baptized over 100 people, most in lakes, rivers and
bath-tubs(winter). There was one of them who then became a part of a
baptist church and they decided his baptism was not valid so they
rebaptized him. But he was the only one. Probably half of those we
baptised received the holy spirit (speaking in tongues) on the same day.
Some had already received it. Others received it later.
But I am not the only one who baptises. The others too, whether a few
months christian or 22 years , like myself.
So that is my testimony in a nutshell. It doesn't include some very
important aspects like how God gave me my wife, etc.
Why is it important to me that baptism be done by 'disciples' and not
by 'elders' or leaders? Basically because of my wish of making
'forgiveness of sins' non-traditional, something which can be taken to
anyone and happen anywhere, wherever the Gospel is preached.
Are there scriptual examples of people other than leaders who baptized?
Yes there are. Ananias, in Acts 22:12 baptized Paul. He said, 'And now
why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,
calling on the name of the Lord. ' First, Jesus didn't need to tell him
that when he believed, he should be baptized. Ananias already knew
this. It was for him as clear as 1 + 1 = 2. If someone believes on
Jesus, then they are baptized to wash away their sins. The clearest
meaning of baptism is it is God's answer for sin, being crucified with
Christ and rising with him. When you believe God concerning Jesus's
death it is natural for you to want to partake of it through baptism.
That is why the eunuch asked Phillip, 'See, here is water; what doth
hinder me to be baptized?' How sad if Ananias would have said to Paul,
'Come to my Pastor. In 3 weeks there is a baptism. Maybe you can ask
him if you can immediately start taking baptism-preparation classes and
be ready by then. (Unfortunately, many wouldn't even see this as enough
time of preparation!)
Philip was not an apostle. Later, as myself, he was called an
evangelist(Acts 21:8) the only one in the Bible. But at the time he
baptized almost the whole city in Samaria, he was only a 'servant'.
Paul says that of all the people baptized in Corinth, he, the founder,
had baptized the house of Stephanas. All of the others were baptized,
but NOT from Paul. There were at the time that the church started in
Corinth no other apostles or main leaders. So who baptized them all?
Disciples.
Jesus never made the requirement that those who were to baptize must be
apostles or elders. Nor did Paul or anyone else. It is to the disciples
that he gave the command.
Why should we make 'unclear or difficult' the way into the kingdom?
Just because someone is a leader of a church doesn't mean he is
something special in God's eyes. There are others who are just as
special, in fact we are all dearly beloved, part of his beloved church.
My leading a church makes my baptizing people in no way better than
when I baptized them before I was an elder. I think it is silly to even
think this way. If you are a true disciple of Jesus, and risk your life
preaching the gospel, then you most definitly qualify as one of those
persons who are sent to 'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the
Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
world.'
Jack, thank you for your response. I respect your conviction and know
that it may much lay in our different 'upbringing in the Lord' that we
have different views.
Your brother in Christ
Rodger Dusatko
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