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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

609.0. "Earthly vs. Heavenly Fathers" by CSC32::KINSELLA (it's just a wheen o' blethers) Thu Feb 25 1993 17:10

    
    Recently my Sunday School teacher told us a story.  It was an
    exciting experiment done by some Ivy League professor in a
    Philosophy/Religion class.  At the beginning of the year, he
    handed his students a survey to fill out about their feelings
    toward their father.  He then collected them and didn't mention
    them again.  The students forgot all about it.  Then, at the
    end of the school year the professor handed his students another
    survey to fill out about their feeling toward God (their Heavenly
    Father).  The catch was that the survey had the exact same 
    questions as the first survey about their earthly father.  
    
    I started thinking about my own father.  My dad is a great dad.
    I love him alot.  He's a gentle, loving, godly man who used 
    discipline to guide and shape me and my siblings.  I have a great
    deal of respect for my dad.  While I'm old enough to do whatever
    I want, I value his insight highly and I usually don't vary 
    from what he deems right.  Not that I ask him everything.  I
    just feel we've come to a place where we have the same values
    and understand each other very well.  When we've had disputes, 
    he's always been more than willing to take the initiative to help 
    mend them.  
    
    For me this has given me a good picture of a loving, righteous,
    and just God.  Of course my dad isn't perfect, but overall these
    are the feelings I have about him.
    
    Any other thoughts on a relationship between our earthly and
    Heavenly fathers?
    
    Jill
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
609.1DPDMAI::DAWSONt/hs+ws=Formula for the futureThu Feb 25 1993 17:176
    
    		My Earthly father was a jerk while my Heavenly father is 
    my guide and teacher.  
    
    
    Dave
609.2What a wonderful thing...CSC32::KINSELLAit's just a wheen o' blethersThu Feb 25 1993 17:507
    
    Dave,
    
    Thankfully God's grace can span that gap when we allow Him too.
    I'm glad you have at least one dad that you can count on. :-)
    
    Jill
609.3CSC32::J_CHRISTIERise Again!Fri Feb 26 1993 12:5310
    My earthly father was/is okay - as good as most (for his generation)
    and better than many.
    
    I've learned, since filling a father's role for the past 13 years,
    that my father didn't have a clue, though as a child I thought he did. 
    Parenthood, I've learned, is its own unique on-the-job training program.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
609.4JUPITR::HILDEBRANTI'm the NRAFri Feb 26 1993 14:307
    RE: .3
    
    Similar to my experiences. My father was O.K. by the standards of the
    time....but....after being a father myself for 16 years, he sure
    missed out!
    
    Marc H.
609.5CSC32::KINSELLAit's just a wheen o' blethersFri Feb 26 1993 16:2818
    
    RE: .3 & .4
    
    Okay...but what comparison or differences do you see between your
    earthly and Heavenly fathers?
    
    My parents were far from perfect, but like Richard said...it's
    OTJ training.  I think parenting is an art, not a science.  Also, 
    in fairness to our folks the messages of the 50s and 60s really 
    endorsed fathers being involved at work with a brief appearance 
    at dinner time.  I was lucky in that my dad stayed home during 
    the day when I was in elementary school for a couple of years 
    while he worked and went to school nights.  So I had quite a 
    bit of time spent with him and regardless of what they say, I 
    don't believe you can just schedule quality time.  I believe it's 
    a result of the quantity of time you spend with your kids.
    
    Jill
609.6CSC32::J_CHRISTIERise Again!Fri Feb 26 1993 17:1815
Unfortunately, not everyone has a positive role what being a father is
all about.

Some have been abused and sexually violated by the man they call father.
Others have been neglected, even abandoned.

For some, the term 'father' equates with cruelty and pain.

Many fathers of a generation or two ago had a great deal of difficulty
demonstrating affection.  I was 35 before my father actually said he was
proud of me.

Peace,
Richard
609.7Hmmmm....CSC32::KINSELLAit's just a wheen o' blethersFri Feb 26 1993 17:4810
    You're right Richard.  Some people have very negative images of their
    father or even the term 'father.'  Do you think that has in any way
    effected your thinking of your Heavenly Father?
    
    This brings up another interesting thought:  Could there be any
    connection to why some people don't like to think of God as Father,
    but rather Mother or Goddess?  Yes, no...why or why not?  I'm not
    sure...could have some impact for some people.
    
    Jill
609.8CSC32::J_CHRISTIERise Again!Fri Feb 26 1993 18:2022
Note 609.7

>    You're right Richard.  Some people have very negative images of their
>    father or even the term 'father.'  Do you think that has in any way
>    effected your thinking of your Heavenly Father?

Actually, not much.  I'm speaking personally here.  I don't limit my thinking
of God in terms of a male parent figure.  But I realize some people do and
I try to be sensitive to that.

>    This brings up another interesting thought:  Could there be any
>    connection to why some people don't like to think of God as Father,
>    but rather Mother or Goddess?

Yes, I think it does have an impact on some, but certainly not all who
ascribe maternal qualities to the Deity.

You know, the OT metaphorically compares God to a mother eagle.  And in the
OT, the Hebrew word for the Holy Spirit is in the feminine gender, as I recall.

Richard
609.9good questions...TFH::KIRKa simple songTue Mar 02 1993 14:2528
re: Note 609.7 by Jill "it's just a wheen o' blethers" 

>    You're right Richard.  Some people have very negative images of their
>    father or even the term 'father.'  Do you think that has in any way
>    effected your thinking of your Heavenly Father?

Hi Jill,  I know many people who begin the Lord's Prayer "Our God, who art in
heaven..." simply because that image of father is too painful.  I go through
periods of time when I cannot deal well with fatherly images and have
difficulty in accepting even God's love. 
    
>    This brings up another interesting thought:  Could there be any
>    connection to why some people don't like to think of God as Father,
>    but rather Mother or Goddess?  Yes, no...why or why not?  I'm not
>    sure...could have some impact for some people.
    
Interesting question.  I think that's possible, although in most of the cases 
I know of people who have such issues with one parent see the other parent as 
at least passively allowing abuse to occur, if not actively perpetrating abuse
themselves.  Could it have some impact?  Yes, definitely.

What I've found to work best for myself is to not apply any sexual concept to 
God, and accept Jesus as a dear friend and the Holy Spirit as a wise guide and 
comforter.

Peace,

Jim
609.10Good responses...CSC32::KINSELLAit's just a wheen o' blethersTue Mar 02 1993 15:4918
    RE:  609.9
    
    Thanks for sharing Jim.  I wish I could give you my experiences so you
    didn't have those hurts.  Although, I do know that God can heal those
    hurts and allow you to live beyond them.  He does love you.  Thanks for
    risking opening up.  I know this isn't always a safe place to do that.
    
    I often think in terms of the God in terms of the Idea Man, the
    Doer, and the Power Source.  I also like thinking of God as Architect, 
    Builder, and Contractor.
    
    Good point about the passive parent allowing abuse.  I'm sure that's
    true for some people.  Do you think some people feel that way about
    God?  If you read Job, God certainly give Satan some leeway in
    messing with Job.  That can be a very difficult concept for us to
    understand.
    
    Jill
609.11thanksTFH::KIRKa simple songWed Mar 03 1993 09:1817
re: Note 609.10 by Jill "it's just a wheen o' blethers" 

You're welcome, and with God's help, I am healing.  And thanks for more ways 
to think about God, who is infinitely multifaceted.

To answer your question about people feeling that God is responsible for 
allowing abuse I know that a lot of people do.  It can be a long and hard 
process recovering from that; and learning to accept, forgive, and love ain't 
easy.  (My whole way of thinking about those things had to radically change.)

There is a saying among certain circles, "don't give up before your miracle".
God has not given up on us, even when we feel very remote.  Job is a good 
example of that.
    
Peace,

Jim