Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Here's an example of a traditionalist Anglo-Catholic joke:

	The year is 2025.  The lesbian Presiding Bishop
	is placing a statue of Buddha on the altar at
	the Cathedral Church of Sts. Peter and Paul in
	Washington (a.k.a. Washington National Cathedral).

	In the nave, an Anglo-Catholic says to himself:
	"I've nearly had enough.  One more thing and I'm
	out of here."

/john

    John .. I'm not talking about religion based jokes .. I'm asking a
    serious question .. is there any humor in the Bible?  If there isn't
    perhaps someone could share some insight as to why there isn't.
    
    Bubba

    The Bible only mentions that Jesus wept not that he laughed.  The poor
    in spirit are promised the kingdom of heaven.

    As for laughter, the only I can recall is the mocking laughter of the
    soldiers who tortured and killed Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews
    (INRI).

    "Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists.  Others
    slapped him and said, 'Prophesy to us, Christ.  Who hit you'" Mt 26:67
    NIV

    They are still laughing at that one.

Note that the absence of humor does not imply absence of joy or absence of
fun.

For the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

.4> Note that the absence of humor does not imply absence of joy or
.4> absence of fun.

I realize that, but, there are many who profess the inerrancy of the
Holy Bible and I question the advisability of "fun" if there's no
reference to it in the Bible.

Bubba

    See also topic 212. Related but not the same.
    
    		Alfred

>I realize that, but, there are many who profess the inerrancy of the
>Holy Bible and I question the advisability of "fun" if there's no
>reference to it in the Bible.

    Well, just because there is no record of Jesus laughing or telling
    jokes doesn't mean there is no reference to fun in the Bible. There are
    lots of references to "dance", "joy", "joyful" and other words
    indicating that people are happy and/or having a good time. Oh, there
    is plenty of reference to fun in the Bible. I wouldn't worry about
    that. Jesus even went to parties that lasted for days and involved the
    consumption of "adult beverages." :-)

    			Alfred 

re: Note 598.0 by Bubba "America is being held hostage!" 

>    Serious question:  Was there any humor in the Bible?  Did Christ have a
>    sense of humor?  If "no" and "no" to the above .. why not?

I think this has been discussed elsewhere, but I don't remember where.

Jesus did have a sense of humor, and sometimes used humorous means to get
peoples' attention.  Recall his story of it being easier for a camel to pass
through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
Heaven. 

A camel was considered a pretty large mobile object back then.  A needle's eye 
was one of the smallest of passages.  Just try to imagine the largest 
squeezing through the smallest.  Quite a funny image.  Hyperbole, satire, 
humor, it's in there.

Cheers,  .-)

Jim

    I think that comedy is an excellent way of getting across messages.
    I haven't read of the use of comedy, though, in the Bible.
    
    Marc H.

        I wonder if the non-canonical scriptures, or contemporary
        secular writings, showed any more use of humor?  Perhaps
        people back then just didn't use humor in serious works (or
        perhaps the councils that collected the canon didn't have
        much of a sense of humor?).

        Bob

    One thing I heard that I thought Jesus meant in a humerous way. 
    Remember when the pharisees were ridiculing Christ and the apostles?
    James and John asked Jesus, "Do you want us to rain down lightning upon
    them?"
    
    Jesus referred to them as "Sons of Thunder".  Kind of in a humerous way
    as when you would call your baby, "Droopy Draws"
    
    My feeling is that Jesus did have a sense of humor.  Remember the
    cultural issue.  Have you ever watched Benny Hill when he tells those
    British jokes and anecdotes; the audience is in an uproar?  Meanwhile
    you are watching this, shaking your head and saying, "I don't get it!"
    There may be times even in the word where Jesus was being sarcastic or
    cynical in a way where that culture would think it was funny; but we
    may not see it that way. 
    
    Best,
    
    Jack

    Your recall of the Bible is incorrect regarding the setting and the
    question, in context, is asked in all sincerity.

    There's plenty of sarcasm in the New Testament as I mentioned.  It is
    used to inflict ridicule on Jesus and the Apostles.  The Devil, the
    Jews, and the Romans, they all used it.

    Christians are told to expect sarcasm as part of their suffering for
    the sake of Jesus.

    RE: .12
    
    The word is humor...not sarcasm. 
    
    Marc H.

    Marc,
    
    Thanks for proving again that my notes suffer more scrutiny than most
    others here.
    
    Your "RE: .12" should read "RE: .11" since .12 is a reply to Jack
    Martin's suggestion in .11 that "Jesus was being sarcastic".

    Your welcome
    
    Marc H.

    Patrick:
    
    Perhaps I stand corrected.  I don't have a Bible handy.  Did Jesus not
    refer to them as sons of thunder?  If so, I always took that as
    sarcastic.  Kind of like Jesus was saying, Oh yeah, of your own power
    you will bring down lightning from heaven...Come on Sons of thunder!!
    
    I totally admit I may need to be educated on this.
    
    Jack

    The incident that you refer to is Luke 9:51.  It refers to the
    inhospitality of an unnamed Samaritan town.  It was not "comedy".  It
    is a case where Jesus gave James and John a reprimand or "rebuke"
    [KJV].
    
    The label "sons of thunder" is only found at the beginning of Mark
    (3:17).  No suggestion of sarcasm appears there.

    I don't recall any riotously funny parts of the Bible.
    
    There are some words which seem to be puns or a play-on-words.
    Trouble is, they don't sound so clever when translated.
    
    Now, you might sit down sometime and read the Gospel of Mark paying
    special attention to the words and actions of the disciples.  These
    guys could make the Keystone Cops look competent and sophisticated!
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

    	A read-onlyist breaks his vow of silence!
    
    	Isn't it so that the "J" author of parts of the Pentateuch
    	frequently used puns - which, of course, get lost in the
    	translation.  I seem to remember that the name Adam derives
    	from the word for "Earth".
    
    	But surely the blackest humor of all (also J) is the story
    	of Abraham, on his mission to sacrifice his son.
    
    	"But father, where we we find an offering?"
    
    	"My son," (answering the question) "Got will provide." (echoing
    	[the story was written down long after the exodus] the prayers
    	of the Israelites during their 40 years of wandering).
    
    	I resume my cloak of silence: Greetings, Derek.

    When God told Abraham that his ninety year old wife would bear a child,
    Abraham "fell on his face and laughed". 

    Later, when Sarah heard about this, she also laughed to herself, saying
    "After I have grown old, and my husband is old, shall I have pleasure?" 
    Then God spoke to the two of them, and Sarah told God something to the
    effect of "Huh uh, no sir, I didn't laugh, uh uh."

    I don't know about anyone else, but I find those incidents very
    amusing.  Not in a sarcastic way, but in a broadly comic way.  In fact,
    I imagine something analogous in an episode of "Happy Days" (sorry for
    the fifteen-year-old reference, but I don't watch many sitcoms these
    days.)  Let's say there's a class nerd, to whom Fonzie announces that
    he can have a date with the most popular girl in school if he would
    only ask her.  The nerd falls on his face laughing.  Fonzie gives him
    one of his patented looks, and the nerd stands up, brushes his shirt,
    and says, "No Fonzie, I wasn't laughing, really!"  Anyway, that's how I
    pictured those passages in Genesis--as comic gestures.  The idea of
    a character reacting with laughter to an improbable statement that the
    audience happens to know is true can be a comic incident.

    I think we are so attuned to thinking of the Bible in solemn terms that
    the idea of comedy in the Bible is foreign to us, it isn't part of the
    solemn mindset that we use when reading it.  So we read passages that
    might have comic overtones if we read it a certain way, and instead we
    view it in serious terms.  Ancient Hebrew writing didn't have smiley
    faces.
    
    -- Mike

    .19
    
    Thanks for popping in, Derek.  Glad to know you're there.
    
    Richard
    

    Why, thankyou Richard: That's the nicest thing anyone said to me all
    day.  After that, I feel that I have to "go out on an up."
    
    The following story is not taken from the Bible, but it is thanks
    to the Bible that the main character found the strength of character
    that he showed.
    
    When I was a Royal Air Force cadet, we had a weekly hour on "Religion"
    and were divided according to out faiths (Catholics on the left,
    Church of England <CofE> on the right, Jews over there and others off
    to the cookhouse).
    The priests of each religion were high ranking officers and cadets
    (supposed to be) frightened mice, scared of anything in stripes,
    crowns or "scrambled egg".
    The CofE padre allowed his mice to smoke during the lecture but the
    catholic padre did not.
    Once, when the CofE padre was on leave (furlough<?>) we were thrown in
    with the catholics. One of our number asked the padre if we could
    smoke.
    "My son, if the Good Lord had intended man to smoke, he would have
    fitted them with a chimney, don't you agree?"
    We (CofE smokers) all groaned. Bloody catholics!
    But our cheekiest CofE cadet stood up: "Padre, isn't it so that, if
    the Good Lord had intended us to remain celibate, he might have 
    designed us a little differently?"
    The catholic padre, showing - IMO - immense strength of character,
    smiled and said: "You're quite possibly right, my son. Those of you
    who wish, may smoke."
    
          Greetings, Derek.

    .22
    
    A very amusing story, Derek!  Thanks!  And feel free to participate as
    often as you like and can.
    
    Richard
    

    Another example of comedy in the Bible is the book of Jonah.  While the
    book makes a serious point, it does so by telling a story rich in
    humor.  Jonah is a wonderfully comic character.
    
    -- Mike

How's this for sardonic, hyperbolic humor?

"Before you take the speck out of your neighbor's eye, try taking the 2x4 out 
of your own."

(I almost spelled it "spec".)

Jack

Along the same lines:

(Jesus speaking) [Ye] blind guides, which strain at a �gnat,� and swallow
a �camel.�  Matthew 23:24 (KJV)

Richard