Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Marc,

Over the years, I've experienced that type of communication with loved ones 
who have passed on.  I've also had them appear in dreams where they 
seemed to have a message for me which had significance in my daily 
life or as you say to clear an unresolved issue from the past.

Ro

    Marc - 
    
    My father died in March and I haven't had any experiences like the one
    you describe.  However, several of my siblings and my mother have.  I
    think this may have something to do with the fact that I did a lot of
    work in therapy the year before he died.  I think I'd already let him
    go before he died.  
    
    The night Dad died my brother had what he believes was a visitation from
    Dad.  Garrett had gone to sleep after hearing from my other brother,
    Mike, that Dad was not likely to make it through the night.  Garrett
    dreamt that Dad and Mike came over to his house and Dad said, "C'mon,
    Gare, it's your birthday and we're going fishing!"  Garrett told Dad
    that he wasn't supposed to be there, that he was supposed to be in the
    hospital.  Dad said, "Oh, I'm over all that.  I jogged over here." 
    Garrett was then awakened by the phone call telling him that Dad had
    died.  
    
    I thought that was kind of a nice way for Dad to let Garrett know that
    he was allright.  
    
    Nanci

    I sometimes have wondered if dead relatives are watching me.  I
    hesitate to introduce some levity into a serious topic like this, but I
    would point out that there are some rather personal activities that I
    frankly would rather not have relatives, dead or alive, watching me do. 
    :-)

    -- Mike

    I think Nanci's comments about letting go before your relatives die is
    very good.  Sometimes we don't let allow ourselves to assume any sense
    of urgency about our lives; we act as if everything will be the same,
    our parents will always be with us, and live will go on indefinitely. 
    I say "we", and perhaps that isn't true of everyone, but I admit that I
    am complacent about these things.  I still have a hard time accepting
    deep down the idea that my parents will die some day, but my father's
    ill health over the last few years has helped to acclimate me to that
    fact much better than if he were to die suddenly.  (Of course, that is
    NO consolation for watching your father suffer.)

    I told my father I loved him, for the first time in many years, after
    his kidneys failed, and I feel like in many ways I am more reconciled
    with my parents than I was in the past.  If only we recognized how
    short our lives really were, we would not put off saying the things
    to our loved ones that we really should say.  It is a horrible thing to
    regret when they have passed on and it is too late.

    -- Mike

Hi Mike .4,

<<    I think Nanci's comments about letting go before your relatives die is
<<    very good.

I agree wholeheartedly.  It would be great if we could deal with 
issues (either positive or negative) before the person passes on.  
Sometimes it takes maturity to be able to do this and sometimes the 
other person isn't ready to 'hear' what we have to say.

Then there are issues that come up relating to the death itself.  When 
the two men in my life (my uncle who was a surrogate father to me and 
my fiance) were both killed in auto accidents when I was 19, I mourned 
their deaths and how much I missed them.  However, it wasn't till 
years later, I was able to acknowledge the surpressed anger I had from 
feeling they had both 'abandoned' me.  Through workshops and with the 
help of friends who work with spirit, I've been able to work through 
those feelings.  Now I can know that although they aren't with me 
physically, they've never really left me.

Ro

re Note 542.5 by UHUH::REINKE:

> Hi Mike .4,
> 
> <<    I think Nanci's comments about letting go before your relatives die is
> <<    very good.
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly.  It would be great if we could deal with 
> issues (either positive or negative) before the person passes on.  
> Sometimes it takes maturity to be able to do this and sometimes the 
> other person isn't ready to 'hear' what we have to say.
  
        I think that there is a big difference between "dealing with
        issues" and "letting go".

        Ideally, perhaps, one could "hold on" to their loved ones
        until the moment of death and then just let go.

        Even if that really were ideal, however, I don't think it can
        be achieved.

        If I had to make the choice between erring on the side of
        "letting go" before death or "letting go" after death, I
        would definitely choose the latter.

        On the other hand I would choose to handle problems before
        death.  (However, one must realize that some problems are
        just beyond "handling."  In that case the problem must be
        let go, not the person.)

        Bob

    I've heard of people suffering and near death who seemed unable to
    let go themselves until their loved ones were able to let them go and,
    in effect, give them "permission" to leave.

Bob, .6

My response was also in reference to the base note where Marc talked 
about dealing with unresolved issues, which is what I meant by positive 
and negative issues.

Mike talked about finally being able to tell his father that he loved 
him to me would be a positive issue, whereas someone clearing up 
something like having been abused as a child would be negative.  

As a friend of Nanci's, I probably read more into her note than she 
actually wrote.  Thus, I think I read it as issues and not so much 
letting go.  If in fact by letting go, you are talking about being
able to let them continue on their journey without trying to hold
them here? 

It is Friday afternoon and I'm confused!  ;')

Ro

   Marc,

   I hear ya.

   My parent died 17 years ago within three months of each other. There
   is a small trainload of unresolved stuff leftover, especially between
   my mother and I.  There are things in my life that I feel are signs
   that I've started letting go of the past and it's pain, it's a slow 
   process.

   Peace,
   Allison

    Marc,
    
    No, you're not one can short of a six pack. :-)  What you describe 
    happens more than what is generally accepted and talked about.  The 
    "veil" between the worlds is permeable.  Our relationships continue.  
    It's nice you didn't simply shrug the experience off.
    
    :-)
    
    Karen                                         

    Ro - 
    
    You were reading what was there between the lines.  :-)  
    
    For me, the process of letting go of the person necessitates that I
    work the issues I have with them.  In my dad's case I had lots of time. 
    He's had heart disease and frequent coronarys since I was 13.  In the
    past year or so he was in a heart-transplant program.  Unfortunately,
    he was such a big person that they never found a heart big enough to
    support his body.  He went into the program in July of 1991 and died in
    March of 1992.  I had lots of time to work through the issues and
    come to some sort of resolution before he died.  My other siblings
    didn't do this kind of processing so they seemed to have a harder time
    accepting his death and with the grieving process.
    
    Nanci 

A long time after my mother died, the phone at home would ring at certain hour
and I'd think it was probably her - until I remembered.

It seemed all so unnatural and painfully unfamiliar to me for her to be gone.
Holidays and family celebrations were the hardest to bear.  My mother never
forgot a birthday, a quality that neither her husband nor other offspring
ever cultivated.  Her grandson (my son, Ricky) now has no one outside our
household who ever remembers him on his birthday.

Anyway, the thought of Mom lingers.  It isn't like she is present though or
like she can see what I'm doing.  It's just memories, rich in melancholy
like a closet full of old home movies.

Peace,
Richard