Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    My sister and her husband have a Christian home where their two 
    children have been taught Christian values; Santa is present in
    their holiday culture, but not the focus. They are reminded that
    it is the birthday of Jesus that they're celebrating and that because
    he gave himself to them, and that they recieve all good things because
    and through him, that giving and sharing with other is what they should
    do. The children (6 and 8 now) are always involved in projects to give
    to others such as by making little gifts for the people in the
    retirement home in their community. Giving to others is part of the
    whole family's year-round practice. 
    
    Saint Nicholas exemplified Christian giving and therefore became our
    Santa; because of this 'he' can be a good example, but only if taught
    that way in the home. Basically, if a family lives their Christianity
    then there is no problem and Santa becomes a colorful expression of
    a Christian value. 
    
    Without Christian values, Santa becomes.....well, we all know!
    

	I guess I've always been a bit of a skeptic.  I can't remember ever
really believing in Santa Claus.  It was more like I went along with it to
humor my parents.  They seemed to get such a kick out of it.

	And the Easter Bunny was even more obtuse to believe.

Peace,
Richard

    RE: .2 Richard,
    
                      I can vividly remember being frightned of the Easter
    Bunny as a small child.  Just the thought of a giant bunny scared me no
    end.  Then after meeting some of the "Santa's" in the local stores, I
    got *real* scared that they just might "slip" into my house and my
    sixth sense told me they weren't going to leave presents!  You have
    *NO* idea how relieved I was when I discovered the truth about both.
    At any rate I did sleep easier.
    
    Dave

"Whereas the true lesson of Christmas is a message of Divine mercy and
sacrifice, Santa is the front man for greedy corporations and the tutor
in greed for millions of American children."

					- John Mahoney

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From: [email protected] (DAVID ENSCOE)
Subject: Parents warned to handle Santa myth with care
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 13:03:12 PST

	PHILADELPHIA (UPI) -- Imagine how it would feel to suddenly discover
that George Washington never lived, that Babe Ruth was a make-believe
character and that there was no such person as Martin Luther King Jr.
	Millions of American children experience that sense of loss, betrayal
and anguish each year when it finally hits home that there isn't a Santa
Claus.
	``Discovering that Santa doesn't exist is a tremendous blow for
children,'' said Robert Myers, a psychology professor at Widener
University in Chester, Pa. ``They feel like they've been tricked.''
	Myers said parents have the best of intentions when they perpetuate
the myth of a jolly old man in a magic sleigh who brings them presents
each year.
	But learning the truth, especially for a 6-year-old, is painful.
	``It indicates to children that their parents have lied to them and
they need to be careful about whom they trust,'' Myers said.
	Myers isn't suggesting doing away with the Santa Claus myth, which he
says has demonstrated through the years to be a positive factor in child
development. But he does recommend that parents handle the issue with
care.
	For instance, if a child hears in school that there really isn't a
Santa Claus and asks a parent for confirmation, it might be time to own
up.
	``It's probably better to tell them the truth,'' Myers said. 
``Eventually the child has to be confronted with reality.''
	Myers said the vast number of Santa Clauses that kids are exposed to
during the Christmas season also causes problems. He said adults who
pass department store Santas off as ``helpers'' aren't giving their
children enough credit.
	``It's very confusing for them. They don't understand why Santa needs
helpers when he's so powerful and has all those elves.''
	Myers suggests parents level with their children about the fake Santa
Clauses, and explain that these people are just doing a job for the real
Santa, who only appears once a year on Christmas eve.
	But dealing with the Santa myth is ultimately a matter of personal
choice, Myers said.
	``A parent's job is to prepare children to be effective adults. How
each parent does it is up to them,'' he said.
	If that means telling children from the start that there is no Santa
Claus, so be it. Myers, in fact, never believed in Santa Claus, even as
a child.
	``My family never taught me there was a Santa Claus,'' he said.

    
    As a Christian, why not forego Santa Claus completely and make reality
    the focal point of our celebration (i.e. Jesus's birth).
    
    We have and it is a great freedom (after the initial shock and
    indignation of relatives).
    
    jeff

	Jeff,

	I do not celebrate Christmas though I have done in the past. Should
	not the focal point of Christian's be what Jesus is now? Rather
	than what he was 2000 years ago. I say this because to many, Jesus
	is what he is portrayed as each and every year, a defenseless little
	baby and yet in reality he has been given authority over heaven and
	the earth.  
	
	For exapmle, when someone dies you may hear the comment to children 
	"they have gone to heaven to be with baby Jesus" as though he never 
	grew up. This is not reality and comments like these must come from 
	the way Christendom portrays Jesus. Surely the emphasis is in the 
	wrong place. 

	Phil.

    
    .-1
    
    I don't believe that to many Jesus is what is portrayed at Christmas -
    a baby.  It is a fact that Jesus was a baby at one time.  It is a fact
    that Jesus grew up to be an adult.  Most people know this (that know
    anything about Jesus).
    
    I believe that a celebration of Jesus's birth is good.  It reminds us
    of God's great love for us and establishes the fact that Jesus was
    conceived, not of a man, but of the Holy Spirit.  There are many
    wonderful mysteries and miracles to discuss concerning the Christmas
    story.  I certainly find it to be meaningful to my spiritual condition
    to remember and to celebrate Jesus's birth each year.
    
    jeff

    When I was in the second grade, I got into a discussion with a classmate
    of mine over the existence of Santa Claus.  I was taken aback by his
    confident assertion that there was no such thing as Santa.  He
    presented a very reasoned and coherent argument.  For example, he said,
    how could Santa Claus keep track of how good every single kid in the
    world was?  My response, "Maybe he uses computers", got a disgusted
    response from him.  But later, I considered his arguments, and I
    concluded that he must be right.  I decided to break this news to my
    mother, fearing that I was saying something blasphemous, such as that
    God didn't exist.  But she took this revelation of my new found
    skepticism quite well.  :-)

    -- Mike

re Note 362.6 by FATBOY::BENSON:

>     As a Christian, why not forego Santa Claus completely and make reality
>     the focal point of our celebration (i.e. Jesus's birth).

        Does one (or a family) need to forego "Santa Claus"
        completely in order to make Jesus' birth the focal point of
        the celebration?

        I would think that bringing "Santa Claus" himself back to the
        reality of the story of Good Saint Nicolas would do much to
        restore the right perspective on the holiday.

        Today's "Santa Claus" has become a god, an idol, with
        miraculous powers and apparent immortality (except for the
        occasional Christmas movie where somebody has to save him
        from some stupid little problem).

        But the story of a good and generous follower of Christ is
        very to the point.

        Bob

    
    Bob,
    
    I say Christians should forego Santa.  But it is a personal decision. 
    

    
    RE: 7
    
    Hi Phil,
    
    Actually I think it's critical for Christians and non-Christians alike
    to remember that Jesus came to earth not helplessly, but willingly as 
    a child.  Remember being that He was fully God He could have chosen to
    not go through dirty diapers, teething, and childhood diseases.  He
    could have come as a grown man and felt some of the things we felt, 
    but since he came to save all, He started where we started.  After all,
    many people are saved when they are young.  Children loved Christ,
    they rushed to Him, because He understood them.   The plan was perfect.
    
    As a side.  I grew up believing their was a Santa.  It didn't demolish
    my relationship with my parents when I found out otherwise.  Also, I
    think it can be used as a nice comparison...good old St. Nick giving
    gifts that our temporary, and our Lord Jesus Christ giving the only
    gift that will last for all of time.  It might not matter to the kids
    on Christmas Day, but when the toy breaks, it might sink.
    
    Jill
    

We have told our daughter regularly that there is no actual
Santa Claus today, but that the character of Santa Claus is
based on a real person named Nicklaus who lived a long, long
time ago and cared for children.  This man, after he died,
was remembered and eventually given sainthood from which we
get the name Saint Nick, Saint Claus, Saint Nicklaus or
the Spanish Santa Claus.  We tell her that he was a Christian
who gave his heart to Jesus.

Laura told me several days ago that she wanted to believe
Santa was real.  :-)

Collis

Collis,

I told my children very much the same account of Santa as you have
with your daughter.   I also added that it was fun for all of us to
imagine that Santa was real and that it was like acting in a play when
I pretended to be Santa Claus and we all participated in the fantasy.

Ro

    
    You mean he's not really your mother??
    
    D.

    I was once asked if by someone else's children if Santa Claus was
    real.  Sticky situation.
    
    My answer to them surprised even me, the one who said it.
    
    My response was pleasing to their mother.  I said, "Santa is a spirit,"
    which, in my estimation, is not a lie.  It seemed to satisfy the kids,
    too.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

A little background information, gleaned from our church service bulletin on 
the Second Sunday of Advent...
				-=-

December 6th is St. Nicholas Day; celebrated for Nicholas, Bishop of Myra 
in 342.  Nicholas attended the 1st Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325, from 
which we get our Nicene Creed.  He was tortured and imprisoned by Emperor 
Diocletian.  Nicholas is best known for his love ad care for children.  As 
a bearer of gifts to children, his name was brought to America by Dutch 
colonists in New York.
				-=-

I agree that gift giving can cloud the importance of Christmas, but given that 
St. Nicholas day is a couple + weeks before Christmas, and the gift bearing 
Magi arrived a couple weeks - after Christmas, combined with the Birth of
Christ being a Very Great Gift from God to us, I think gift giving can be used
to teach what such a gift means.  I would far rather use the example of Saint 
Nicholas as a positive pointer to Christ than dismiss his story out of hand.

Peace,

Jim