Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Hi Paul,
    
    The book Joshua (that I refer to in 17.2) is a fictional story about
    just what you suggest "What if Jesus returned today...".  I don't
    want to spoil the book for anyone who would like to read it.  But
    yes, it happens as you describe - very few recognize him, especially
    the church hierarchy.  I applaud your attempt to show this in your
    note; it is very well written.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ro

    	Well, first I'd like to say a couple of deflating words regarding
    the numbers of people who attribute all strangeness to religious
    origins. They are a small minority. Most folks - and I don't mean "a
    little more than half" - keep their religious context sequestered to an
    hour a week, if they can get to it. Many more people would think he (or
    would it be a SHE this time?)(Hi, Gil) was an alien - split decision on
    a good or an evil one. Still more would think the "New Christ" was a
    loony, some sort of potentially dangerous nut or fruitcake. Only the
    solid Christian conservatives would see it in a religious context and I
    suspect they would generally be negative. Especially if the female
    option were chosen.
    	If I were Christ and thinking of a sequel, I would come back as
    Satan and SCARE the devil out of us. And if *I* can think of such a
    thing, cannot God ?  ;')

    .1   No, I haven't seen Joshua (or your reply), but it sounds
         interesting.
    
    .2   Quite right.... If Jesus returned to American society, how
         would  he/she react to all our Western customs/habits/values?
         He/she would probably act like a "fruitcake," I would imagine.
         Very very different.
         
         And what if Jesus returned as a female this time?  Good point.
         Would she be instantly rejected by mainstream Christianity?
         
    Paul
         

    
    Isn't the Antichrist also supposed to come speaking of peace?  I
    think this makes things a bit difficult....

    Right,  thanks for reminding me; I forgot to mention that.   In the
    scenario described in .0, many would consider Jesus the antichrist.
    Again, what would Jesus have to do to prove to Christendom of his
    authenticity, and what criteria would apply?
    
    Paul
    

    Well, I read Joshua, and I enjoyed it, but at the same time I thought,
    well that's the authors opinion of what Jesus would be like. The author
    BTW, is a retired disgruntled priest who has been at odds with the
    Church hierarchy for some time. He's kind of like Fr. Andrew Greely
    if any of you know him.

    I could write a book with the opposite kind of Jesus. A Jesus who comes 
    back as one of the hierarchy and points to those who did not follow those 
    he put in charge over them.

    The problem with this is that when we speculate what Jesus will be like,
    we fall into the same trap that the Jews did in Christ time. 
    They thought he  would free Israel from Roman oppression, put the Jewish
    people in charge of all the earth, etc.


    Peace
    Jim

re Note 44.0 by JOKUR::CIOTO:

>    I doubt that there is *anything* Jesus could do -- miracles,
>    raising people from the dead, you name it -- to tear a large
>    portion of Christendom away from its attachment to a certain
>    understanding of this book, if it were indeed amiss.  Nothing. 
>    Jesus would be written off as a heretic for shaking up the
>    religious order of these times, the way he was so long ago. 
>    Written off by 20th-century Pharisees.

        Some would react this way, but I hope that most wouldn't.

        I assume that in Jesus' time, most of the people generally
        agreed with the Pharisees and other scholars of Scripture --
        after all, they were the authorities, the teachers.  Yet I
        get the impression that most people, when they were
        confronted by the love and truth of Jesus himself, simply
        dropped their old conceptions in favor of what they
        experienced first hand.

        Yet I also get the impression from Scripture that most of the
        official teachers reacted in exactly the opposite way -- they
        stubbornly held to their cherished notions and rejected even
        what they could plainly see.

        Somewhere in the epistles it says that the teachers will be
        held to a higher standard of accountability for error and
        leading people astray.  I suspect that, when Jesus comes
        again, once again it will be the teachers who have the
        hardest time recognizing him.

        Bob

re Note 44.5 by JOKUR::CIOTO:

> many would consider Jesus the Antichrist.
  
        Which suggests that the Antichrist will try to fulfill our
        expectations of Christ as closely as possible.

        Bob

    RE  .8
    
    Right.... the Antichrist will condemn homosexuals, demean women, wear a
    $500 suit, and hold $1000-per-plate church fundraisers, and many 
    Christians will say, "Wow!  It's really Jesus!"  ;)  ;)
    
    Paul    }:^)
    

re Note 44.9 by JOKUR::CIOTO:

> wear a $500 suit, 

        Are you attacking an identifiable group of people?

        Bob :-}

    .10
    
    If the suit fits ....   ;)  ;)
    
    Paul  ]8)
    

    Bob - 
    
    Since I've never seen anybody who wore their suits (except possibly my
    grandmother who was a little spacy but never wore a $500 suit) with the 
    price tag showing I don't think so.  :-)
    
    Nanci

    	OK, maybe it's time for us to stop taking cheap shots at certain
    "religious leaders/personalities" and got back to the topic. Not to
    suggest that the cheap shots are inaccurate, only that they apply to
    cognizenti everywhere. I am currently reading a treatise/debate in the
    Scientific American regarding "The Extinction of The Dinosaurs" and
    there is more than one mention of the fact that the established leaders
    (and many older followers) in each of several fields rejected the
    research and theories presented. Similar patterns are evident in other
    fields. So, let's not be TOO harsh on our Pharasees just because they
    are human. ;')

    If Jesus were to show up at my front door today, he would most
    likely receive a hug.  This is not unusual, since most who come
    to my door are so embraced.
    
    If Matthew 25 is correct, then Jesus frequently does come to our
    door.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    
    If Jesus returned today he would return (according to the Bible) in the
    sky in great majesty and triumph.  The Bible is clear about Jesus'
    return.  In paraphrase it says, Let know one be deceived, many will
    come calling themselves the Christ and people will say Christ is here
    or Christ is there.  But Christ will come back from the sky.  Every eye
    shall see Him.
    
    It is wonderful to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ!!  And it is
    also very comforting to know that no man or woman who appears in the
    usual way (born and raised on earth) can be Jesus!!  Jesus' return will
    be from above and it will be obvious to everyone at that time.
    
    jeff

    
    A friend of mine told me last night that there would also be trumpets
    sounded.  Now that should get our attention! :-)
    
    "Attention all planets of the Solar Federation, we have assumed
     control, we have assumed control...."  - Neil Peart
    
    
    guy
    

    Jesus was not the conquering military Messiah expected the first
    time around.
    
    It would not surprise me if Jesus arrived in an unexpected form
    next time also; perhaps as a woman, or an Asian, or......
    
    Peace,
    Richard

re: perhaps as an Asian

How did one know Rev. Moon wasn't him in disguise?

--Simon

    re .18  The Rolex on his wrist? ;-)
    
    Richard

I haven't read the replies here yet, but I'll enter what I think.

I agree with you Paul that Jesus would have a lot of problems with the
ultra-conservatives.  Those whose lives are lived, to a large extent, by
rules.  Because Jesus was not a person of rules in the way that we
think of rules.

I also believe that Jesus would have a lot of problems from the liberals
because He would continue to make the same exclusive claims today that
He has made (and have been rejected by the liberals) in the past.

I do have a lot of confidence in believers, however, who seek Jesus.
I would *not* expect instant acceptance by everyone since we one of
our responsibilities is to "test everything" (and everyone).  Yes, if
Jesus reveals Himself as Jesus, we should immediately accept Him (if
we can *know* that this is who He is).  However, sometimes Jesus chooses
to remain anonymous (road to Emmaus, for example).

Collis

Speculation is a lot of fun. Very cerebral at times, at others a great outlet
for fervent beliefs. However, speculation is speculation, nonetheless.

I think a more interesting speculation (one in which we should indulge every
day, IMO) is, what would Jesus think of what we have made of His teachings?
How would he view our "organized" religions?

An extremely pointed (and poignant) exploration of both these perspectives is in
Dostoevsky's "The Grand Inquisitor," in which Christ returns to earth and is
subjected to imprisonment and inquisition. I think it is as relevant today as
when it was written.

An interesting sidelight is that Dostoevsky was (hearsay) an atheist.