Conference 7.286::golf

    did mr. hacker play the round by himself.
    his playing partners must have known he was
    cheating, unless they each kept their own
    scorecards.
    
    tournamet people should do something about
    how they report scores.
    
    mr. hacker should be punished, according to
    the penalties established for his crime.
    
    black nicklaus

    A much more difficult crime to prove is sandbagging on your handicap.
    But it is just the same as cheating on a scorecard.  If the prize is
    money then it should be the same as fraud.
    
    This summer I played in a member guest tournament which used a match
    play format, the final match was against 2 golfers that had higher
    handicaps than mine which was 17 at the time.  With 3 holes to go we
    were all even, then all of a sudden they went birdie, birdie, eagle to
    close us out and win the flight.  
    
    It seems that most tournaments I've been in are won by a group coming
    out of the 8 th or 9 th flight.  The same member guest the year before
    was won by a twosome that was 22 under par in the 8 th flight.
    
    The prize money was $1200 for the overall winner and $300 for the
    flight winner.  When you think about the ethics involved with the money
    its not only not fair but on the verge of being criminal.  Granted
    individual clubs should make an attempt to verify handicaps of golfers
    but its up to the individual to post actual scores.
    
    I guess I sleep better at night but the winners have that new set of
    clubs I'm dreaming about.

    This kind of stuff used to "haunt" the Oldsmobile Scramble, which is a
    national tournament where regional qualifiers go to the finals in
    Florida to play for some serious prizes. Tournament officials have
    really clamped down on contestants, and do all they can to legitimize
    handicaps, but they STILL get sandbaggers. While I don't think strokes
    are involved, you're supposed to have different level handicap players
    in each foursome. What happens is that a few teams end up with three
    nearly scratch players, masquerading as "B," "C," and "D" players. In a
    scramble format, these guys are VERY tough - plus most of 'em can hit
    it a mile as well. I just don't play in these things - I get pissed
    off, and don't think there is a legitimate chance of success.
    
    __Jack

    Try golf league playoffs. A few years back my partner and I were blown
    out by a sandbagger who shot a 36 on Stow North front. His league
    handicap was a maximum 7 for nine.
    I don't bother any more.
    
    Rich

    
    Rich...
    
    I hear ya... and agree that higher handicappers win many tournaments,
    BUT.. I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt.. a 14 handicapper
    can shoot 36 on his/best day. I'm a 12-14, turn in all scores, and
    occasionaly... I should say *very* occasionaly hit 30's for nine.
    
    Now if this guy was an 18+, I'd say something was wrong.
    
    		Jerry
    

    Jerry,
    
    I understand that a high handicapper has the better potential to shoot
    a round that is "over his head",however, this particular person had a
    3 (for nine) when he first joined the league. My guess is that his
    reasoning was that "others are doing it and how can I compete against
    them"? Not by joining them! I tell you  that it just takes the
    enjoyment of the competetion.  I would rather give Walta strokes
    knowing that I would have to play "over my head" to win. At least I
    would have lots of fun dropping clubs in the middle of his backswing!
    
    Rich

    
    
    HI Rich,
    
    	Sandbagging in golf will always be there. The only way to not be
    victim of it is to play/compete against honest golfers, or compete
    when there are "no" strokes given. Sadly only a couple tourny's each
    year are played straight up. They are the ones I really look forward
    to.
    
    	At least I have a low enough cap to compete with others straight
    up, but the people I really feel sorry for... are the bunch of
    honest middle/high handicappers who must play NET to compete. For
    they are always being victimized by sandbagging! How many times
    have you heard of a high capper shooting his career round 6 under
    his normal score... and not even place in the top ten ! Some of
    the scores I've seen in NET tourny's should be in a record book...
    
    	Funny thing... it was all the hoopla with handicaps that brought
    forth the Challenge Cup that Rick B started. I really enjoyed that 
    tourny. We'll have to get it going again next year ! :)
    
       Wish there were more golfers with your attitude Rich...  how many 
    other sports do players limp up to the line wimpering about all
    their ailments trying to get extra points? If you need strokes? Do
    what I do... practice.
    
    	Ok I'm done. 
    
    	Walta 
    
    	

    re: last few...
    
    	I've had an on going "discussion" at my club because of the abuse
    of the USGA handicap system. Many when playing golf with their
    wifes/girlfriends/buddies make sure they get high scores to insure
    their handicap stays up there,then clean up in tournaments....
    
    	I've been arguing for the following as a possible solution....
    
    	The only scores used for handicap purposes should be competitive
    rounds played i.e., league scores/tournament scores....
    
    	this is on the theory that when putting up money for tournaments
    people will try their best, in leagues the same seems to be true...
    
    	The USGA says ALL scores should be turned for handicap purposes
    but it's still too easy to pad this way....!!!
    
    	Don't think the pro's who go home for a couple of weeks
    and play at their local course shooting 62-65's turn them in for
    handicaping ....oh never mind, they play differently...!!
    

    Unfortunately, we're a "winning is everything" country. I feel kind of
    bad for guys who are competitive, because in golf, the easiest way to
    "win" is to cheat - and the easiest way to cheat is with your handicap.
    I can think of no other sport where it's so easy to take advantage of
    the rules. There are lots of people who just flat don't care - and it
    doesn't bother them. About all you can do is wait until you're playing
    lousy, post a bunch of scores and then stop playing - but take some
    lessons, hit a million balls and work on your short game. When you
    start playing again, you'll have a brief advantage (until your handicap
    catches up to you).
    
    I figure you play the best you can, post your scores and whatever that
    comes out to in terms of a hcp is what you are. It might not be as low
    as you think it "really should be" (a WHOLE other issue - guys get hung
    up on their macho and want to say they're a 10, when they really can't
    play to it, for example), but you live with it. The other side of the
    coin is the guy that figures he'll never be able to compete as a stroke
    play guy, so he concentrates on winning (at any cost) by using his hcp
    to his advantage. To these guys, winning is the ONLY thing. Screw 'em,
    I won't play with 'em, which is why I don't play in leagues. I should
    say that most league guys are great - it's the few hypercompetitive or
    improperly handicapped jerks that ruin it. For me, the worst thing in
    the world is losing to a cheater, or some super competitive blowhard,
    so I just don't put myself into those situations.
    
    Did you ever notice that women golfers almost never have these kinds of
    problems ? Are we missing the point, guys ?
    
    __Jack 

    
    Handicaps s***. I say can em. Who needs em. I say may the best player
    win. I get more satifaction out of playing my heart out and loosing
    than I do shooting 5 strokes higher then a person and winning. I play
    with some good players and they say I'll give you 2 aside. I say oh no
    you won'y I'll kisk your but without the strokes. Hey I know how to
    play this game. I know if I want to compete with the good players I
    have to proactice harder than they do. Handicaps limit you. If you can
    win a match with an eoghty why should you have to shoot 75. 
    
    I hate handicaps, I hate Handicaps. Everyone. I hate handicaps.
    
    Leagues you ask. A flight players play straight up,play the ball down
    and putt everything out. All flights for that matter. If your a c
    flight player in the c flight then what the hell do you need a handicap
    for. I hate handicaps. 

    I'm on the handicap committee at my club and have seen every way
    possible used.  The USGA has an interesting guideline that we use all
    of the time called "exceptional tournement scoring".  When invoked
    it allows the TC to deduct strokes from the handicap and keep
    them off.  
    We have also instituted the no triples rule.  The highest anyone can 
    post is a double on any hole.
    Mike