Conference 7.286::golf

    
    	Bob....
    
    	He's hitting his new 6,7,8,9 the same distance? I don't understand
    	how this is possible, assuming the swing/clubhead speed is the same
    	for all his clubs. Meaning that a full swing is being taken on all
    	the clubs.
    
    	There's many things to consider with the new clubs. Shaft type, 
    	head type... etc.
    
    	What kind of clubs did he buy?
    
    
    		Smitty

    
    Don't know without seeing the swing but I would guess he's playing
    the ball way to far forward in his stance. Sculling the low irons and
    adding to much loft to the higher irons. Have him play the 7,8,9 in
    the middle of his stance and inch forward the 6 thru 3 until he is
    playing the 3 iron off the inside of his left heel. Be sure the ball
    is not to far away at set up that will cause a ton of problems. Hit
    down on the ball that's how the clubs are designed although a sweeping
    swing is preferred on the long iron 1 thru 3 iron. If it continues see
    your Pro.
    
    Pete
    
    Pete

    
    One other thing. As you move towards the higher iron the distance from
    club to club becomes less. The difference in a 3 iron and a 4 iron is
    only about 7  to 10 yds.
    
    Pete

    
    re .3
    
    >One other thing. As you move towards the higher iron the distance from
    >club to club becomes less. The difference in a 3 iron and a 4 iron is
    >only about 7  to 10 yds.
    
    Really? Is this what is suppose to happen? I get a bigger difference
    as I move to the long irons. I hit my 3 alot further (20 yds or so)
    further than I hit my 4. As I get to the short irons then drop into
    roughly 10 yd intervals.
    
    --Bob
    

    
    Hi,
    
    	Pete is right... the long irons will typically cause less
    distance per club. That is when talking about how far the ball
    will "carry". If you count roll also, then it's a different story.
    
    It's real tough to hit all your irons the same distance... it's like
    trying to throw a ball at different launch angles to the same spot.
    
    	Are you talking carry distance?
    
    	Walta

    re: Bob
    
     Well I don't know what to tell you Bob. That's the way it's supposed
    to go but there are so many differences in our swings. As long as you
    know how far each iron is going to go, crash on. 
    
    Pete

    Just curious, but did your partner in the base note tend to hit his
    irons to the right, putting a cut on the ball?  I have found that
    people who cut the ball (not really a slice) usually have a lot shorter
    distance in their irons.  I had a similar problem late last year, which
    was really strange since my normal swing is a draw.  The problem was
    that when I started my backswing, I also swayed to the right, leaving too
    much weight on my right side and making it difficult to shift my weight
    to the left side through the downswing.  It seemed that from 150 yards,
    it didn't matter whether I hit a 7 iron or a 3 iron, I still wasn't
    going to reach the green!.  As soon as I corrected the sway, I was able
    to make the proper weight transfer, hit down and through the ball, and
    get much more power and distance with my irons (and my draw came back
    too).
    
    Gary 

    
    I hope this is a good place for this, I di a DIR/TITLE = DISTANCE
    
    I need so help, some real big help!  I can't hit the ball for any 
    kind of distance at all!!!!!
    
    Here are the facts:
    
    I do not hit the ball that far to begin with.  I use a 6 iron from 
    150 yards, and I can hit a 3 wood off the tee 180-200 yards on my
    goods days.
    
    I have a problem with my back, so I can't make a very big turn, but
    I played like that all last year!
    
    I can't seem to carry any distance at all with my irons.  When I make
    what feels like a goods swing to me, my 6 iron won't even go 120 yards!
    I just got back from the driving range and I never got the 6 iron past 
    the 100 yard marker.  I checked where I was making contact, I'm not
    hitting it fat.
    
    The ball is going fairly straight, and doesn't seem to be too high, it
    just won't carry!  I'm having to hit my 8 iron from where I would hit
    my PW from last year!  
    
    Please advise, I'm not a good golfer, (I usually shoot around 100), and
    I have experienced giant slices, duck hooks, and fat hits that would 
    scare anyone, but I have never had this problem!
    
    Help please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Shane
    
                                                          

    
    Hey, I hit a six iron about 120 yards - What's wrong with that ?
    
    If I had to guess I'd say you were trying to hard to 'hit' the ball.
    Try just swinging the club with the ball in the way...  Better still,
    take a lesson.  A couple of half hours lessons a season will do wonders
    for your game.
    
    -laura
    
    

    To get back to the initial question.  If you just bought a set of clubs
    and all of a sudden you find yourself with the problem of distance
    described in the initial note, you should have the clubs checked for
    lie and loft.  What you buy in the shop may not be what you think
    you are getting in these areas.  I have always bought forged clubs
    and they are always totally messed up.  I have played around with
    some of the cheaper cast clubs and have found similar problems.
    
    Mike.

     
    See note 393.* for charting distance..  Just use as a guidleline.
    
    	bw

    Some of the problems with distance could be hand and ball position at
    set-up.  If your friend is doing what is commonly taught (moving the
    ball back in his stance and his hand forward as he hits shorter clubs)
    what could be happening is him delofting the clubs so they are actually
    longer than they are suppose to be. An example of this would be John
    Daily.  At impact his hands are ahead of the clubhead actually changing
    the club by as much as 2-3 clubs. Have you friend try to hit from the
    same ball position concentrating on his hands being in the same
    position.  I believe you will see a difference between clubs.
    

    re the distance problem:
    I used to have the same problem with distance i could not hit anything
    long. the problem was that i was not using my wrists. If you do not
    break your wrists out and back then you get nothing for distance. The
    golf commercial that is on cable (half hour) every weekend has a pro
    illistrate distance using first just his body, (little distance) then
    his arms (same effect) but when he just used hi wrists he hit it 200
    yards (or so they said) but i beleive that may be the problem.
    
    leo

As one who is struggling with the physics of the swing, let me ask my experienced
colleagues the following question:

Which player would get greater distance? Player A whose club comes square at the
ball, whose club face is square at impact, who hits the ball off the sweet spot,
but does not use his wrists, or Player B who does use his wrists but comes across
the ball, and hits it off square, off center?

Tommy Horton, ex Ryder Cup player, once gave me a practical demonstration of 
the difference. The way he showed it, method A got almost twice the distance
than method B. But he may have been cheating :-)

What is your experience?

Curiously yours,

Peter

    
    re: .13
    
    I think you hit it on the head.  The other night I was so desperate to
    make something happen, that I choked down on my 5 wood and just made a
    real quick move through the ball and hit the ball right on the green
    from 150 yds.
    
    So the next night I worked on the samething with my irons.  I started
    to feel my wrist cock and release, something I wasn't doing before.
    
    My plan is to do this for awhile and slowly move my hands back up where
    they belong.  Hope it works!
    
    SHane
    
                      

    re:14
    
    I suppose your answer comes from the Physics equation...E=MC2.  If the
    clubhead when useing the wrists is moving faster (the C) then the
    distance should be farther.(assuming square contact).  However, the pro
    was describing and most of us realize that the wrists are also a
    problem, because they can help or impede the swing depending on where
    in the swing they are activated.   At the top of the swing they cause
    problems(casting the club).  Too early in the take away makes the swing
    unpredictable.  
    
    Imagine trying to snap a towel without wrist, or a whip.  That is where
    the final eliment of speed comes from.  But the same is true on tennis
    swings where the wrists cause problems because of non-square contact. 
    Control vs. distance.  Sounds like a time worn argument.
    
    SCD

    
    Shane. Do yourself a big favor and see a pro. If you don't know how
    your swing got to this point you will not know how to get it back.
    You'll probably save yourself a few bucks when you consider the price
    of a half hour lesson and the amount of balls you are going to loose
    by the time you figure out what is going on. I 'll tell you one thing
    I know you're not doing is hitting down on the ball. If you take a 
    seven iron, place in the center of your stance and in a position were
    you are not reaching for it, take a slightly strong grip, a 3/4 swing
    and hit down in the ball it will 150 yds. Be commited to hit it fat. 

    re:              <<< Note 1517.16 by NEWPRT::JOHNSON_DO >>>

>>    I suppose your answer comes from the Physics equation...E=MC2.  If the
>>    clubhead when useing the wrists is moving faster (the C) then the
>>    distance should be farther.(assuming square contact).

    That would be true in Europe where they build clubs with metric components
    (C in this equation represents the speed of light in CENTIMETERS/sec).
    In this country, we use  N = K+3BS    ;^)

    Really.
    
    I thought that C represented velocity period and not just the speed of
    light.  This is the same equation used for ballistic pendulums et. al. 
    The concept being that the velocity of the object because it is squared
    has a greater impact on the energy produced than does the mass.  OF
    course this is all factored by the mass of the object being impacted
    because of inertia, which is related to mass and gravity.
    
    SCD

    SCD
    
      This equation applies only to relativistic phenomena, where speeds
    are approaching the speed of light. John Daly won't even generate
    200 mph club head speeds, so it clearly doesn't apply.
    
    -S.

    
>>      This equation applies only to relativistic phenomena, where speeds
>>    are approaching the speed of light. John Daly won't even generate
>>    200 mph club head speeds, so it clearly doesn't apply.
    
    Ya, but the original author said he was observing his brother-in-law's
    swing so the theory of relatives applies even if it's not a blood
    relative.

    Now as for John Daly...Whadaya figure...125 mph?  What if we got a
    train with a flatcar going 75 mph (make it 80 for the angle [see
    below]) set up a windscreen for John....


		    ------------------------------
     ===============|    | o                 \   |==========================
      |  |  |  |  | |    |-|                  \  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | 
      |  |  |  |  | |      |                   > |  | --------------> |  |
      |  |  |  |  | |     / \                 /  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | 
     ===============|    /   \               /   |==========================
		    ------------------------------
                                              o  Hit ball off at this angle

    Re -1
    
    Further on down that gopher hole!!!
    
    Paul, I figure with your example by the time John on his flatcar went
    about 300 yds the ball would be on it's decent and would land right
    back on the flatcar for John to re-tee it and hit it again. 
    
    I watched Art Selinger do a clinic and he calculated a ball in the air
    8 seconds would travel 300 yds.
    
    Ken 

    re:16
    
>    I suppose your answer comes from the Physics equation...E=MC2.  If the
>    clubhead when useing the wrists is moving faster (the C) then the
>    distance should be farther.(assuming square contact).  

    Right idea, wrong equation.  E=MC� (or "Emck" to Young Einstein fans)
    is a formula which relates matter to energy.  E is the amount of energy
    you could (theoretically) get from a mass M, where C is a constant (the
    speed of light.)  Since C is very large, you get a whole lot of energy
    from a little mass (that's why nuclear weapons are so effective.)
    You're probably thinking of KE (kinetic energy) = �MV�, where M, is the
    clubhead mass and V is the clubhead velocity.

    Bill

    re:20
    Thanks, but if you consider the speed which he appeared and disappeared
    from the golf scene, he may have approached the speed of light.
    
    SCD