Conference 7.286::golf

     When your game goes south go back to fundamentals.  The problems you
     are having with your driver are probably also there with the rest of
     your clubs, just less apparent.  Go to the range and spend some time
     with your 7 or 5 iron until you feel confident.  Then slowly work up
     through the bag.

     I also going to a pro helps, not hurts.  Since when your swing heads
     south you don't know what you are doing wrong.  (Otherwise you would
     correct it.)  A good pro can watch your swing, find the flaws, & help
     you correct them.  (I've also found that most people who avoid the
     Pro are either stubborn (I can't learn from anyone else) or don't
     want to make the modifications the pro is recommending.)

     One last word of advice is that you may be trying too hard to score
     well.  That puts more stress & muscle tension into your swing.  That
     in turn can produce more bad shots.  So relax, don't try so hard, &
     the good rounds will sneak up on you.

     Larry

    Pam,
    
    I agree with everything Larry says in .1 .
    
    It sounds as if you may have gone mentally stale.  You can't seem
    to put the clubface on the ball squarely; and don't know why.  
    Nothing seems to help.  
    
    Two suggestions:                                                
    
    Sign up for a few PRIVATE lessons.  Tell the pro what your going
    through.  S/he should be able to work you through your problems.
    
    Don't play for a week or so (I'm getting the shakes).  Your mind
    may "sort out" a flaw you may have picked up in your swing.  You'll
    feel fresh the first time you get back out on a course.
    
    Dan.
    
    P.S.  Be careful about your Brother-in-law's advice.  Seems he doesn't
      	  know as much as he says.  Even Pros on the tour take lessons
          all the time.  Why would he tell you your swing was so bad,
    	  and not tell you what was wrong? (unless he didn't know) 

    Hi Pam,
    
    Golf is played 99% with the mind, regardless of whether you're a
    pro or a beginner ; when things turn sour on the course, the
    instinctive reaction is always to "check the swing", when you'd
    probably be better off "checking the mind".
    
    One of the things you always hear pros say when they're playing
    well is that they are enjoying the game ; another thing you often
    hear them say is that they feel relaxed. Finding the key to what
    makes you feel relaxed and happy to be playing the game is the key
    to playing golf well, not wrestling with some swing adjustment.
                                                                   
    It's almost an instinctive reaction to make a swing adjustment when
    you're playing badly ; problem is, you don't ever know that the
    adjustment you are making is either the right one or, if it is the
    right one, that you're actually doing it. Having a lesson doesn't
    always work either ; it's a fallacy to think that pros know all
    the answers to every golfers' improvement. 
    
    I used to play reasonably well some years ago (1 handicap), then
    I started working, didn't play so much and my game went west (8
    handicap) ; when I started to play the game in earnest again I used
    to expect to play to my previous handicap and got really upset when
    I couldn't. The harder I tried the worse it became - some days I
    couldn't break 90, a couple of times I shot over 100 - things were
    really desperate !
    
    I made more swing adjustments than I can remember, took dozens of
    lessons, but all in vain. This carried on for about 5 years, in
    which time my handicap went up from 1 to 8. The answer to the problem
    came when I decided to give up trying to play well.
    
    Now when I go out on the course, I don't ever expect to play well;
    in fact, I don't have any expectations at all. My only goal when
    playing is to enjoy the game and never TRY to play well ; I've
    found that this has improved my game a lot, and made the whole business
    of going out to the golf course a lot of fun, instead of a lot of
    purgatory.
    
    So, only play for fun and the good scores will come naturally as
    you learn not to set yourself unachievable goals.
    
    
    Have fun, Mark

     I completely agree with .2, but here are some tips that worked
    when I used to teach:
    
    1. RELAX YOUR SHOULDERS AND UPPER BODY UNTIL YOU FEEL "WEIGHTLESS"!
    This is CRITICAL.
    
    2. Bend your knees.
    
    3. Make the fullest shoulder turn that you can.
    
    4. Let the club "go" toward the target for as long as you can (without
    falling forward).
    
     Hope this helps.
    
    --Jack

    Thanks for the points!
    
    I went out on Friday night and still hit pretty poorly.  I knew
    I was going to be playing 18 on Saturday and told my friend that
    I wasn't going to worry about a thing the next morning.  I decided
    that I was going to just relax and enjoy the game.  I said that
    it will eventually come back.
    
    So on Saturday morning I decided to forget about concentrating on
    every part of my swing.  I kept only two things on my mind at address
    (instead of 50 million).   Concentrated on keeping my head down
    and taking a 3/4 swing instead of a full swing.  Well I played pretty
    poorly until the 7th hole and then all of a sudden things just all
    fell into place.  I started driving beautifully.  Besided just my
    drives getting back to normal I was shocked with my 7 through PW
    irons.  About 3 weeks ago I could not take a 7 or 8 iron out of
    my bag.  I would just keep topping the ball constantly.  Saturday
    I was hitting beautifully with them.  Also I started hitting my
    PW the distance I was hitting my 6 iron with before.   I kept 
    over shooting with my 9 and PW because I was used to the distance
    that I used to hit with it.  So when I used to take out a 9 iron
    I started taking out my PW and was still overshooting.  I then
    had to adjust with a half swing where I used to take a full swing.
    I was amazed at how well I was hitting these irons.  
    
    I think my main problem was picking up my head and trying to take
    a full swing.  When I tried to take a full swing, the weight of
    the club actually brought the club past parallel making it hard
    to get it back square to the ball.  Now that I think I am making
    a 3/4 swing, it is actually a full swing.  The weight is bringing
    the clubhead to parallel.   
    
    Even though I my score was still a little higher than normal, I
    was phyched.  My drives are back to normal as well as fairway shots
    and my 7-PW are 10 times better than they ever had been.  
    
    What  a relief!!
    
    Pam

    I agree with your brother in law.  I've been ruined by pros and
    it took 2 years just to get back even.  Pros (except for Jimmy
    Ballard) don't emphasize the athletic move and rythems needed.
    I'm a big HOGAN fan. Suggest buying his books. And get a net
    down your cellar. MY KID(here comes the bragging!!) has gone from
    26 to 14 and heading for 9 next year in handicap(16 yrs old). 
    He won Most Imroved golfer at STOW ACRES(over 400 mga memebers)        
    
    If you can afford it at Doral, I would recomend ONLY Jimmy
    Ballard. He  teaches the Hogan system plus the rythem part.
                         Angelo
                                                           
    
    
    

    Forgot to mention one more thing that I think was a major problem.
    I have always had problems getting my hips to turn correctly.
    Seems to go lateral instead of turning.  What I did was tried to
    forget that my lower body existed.  I then found out after several
    holes of playing well that you don't need to turn your hips and
    left knee in.  When you turn your shoulders, you hips just naturally
    follow.  My problem was that I was always concentrating on turning
    them which was screwing me up.  
    
    Pam
    

    
    There is an old saying that once you take a lesson you will not play 
    good again for about 2 months.
    
    Taking a lesson will lead you to the correct fix of the problem.  If
    you  don't take a lesson from someone who is qualified then the problem
    may go away, but it only has been patched and probably will reappear.
    
    Think about it, the reason the game goes south after a lesson is the
    pro, has changed something, you muscle memory now is useless (depending
    on the change of course) it will take time to get it back.  
    
    Though I never have taken a golf lesson, I have taken a racquetball
    lesson, and this is what happened.  I was quickly improving when I took
    the lesson. The pro changed my grip and swing. My games totally was
    horrible for about 4 weeks, then it started to come back, now it is 
    much better than ever before.  The pro will set you up to continue the
    improvement.  If you have a flaw, then there may only be so far you can
    go until the flaw stops you.
    
    Take the lesson, listen to the QUALIFIED instructor and do what he
    says.
    
    --Bob
    

    Speaking as a beginner, I can only endorse .8. I've had some lessons
    from a pro, and I can now understand how things can go wrong, and
    how players compensate for bad fundamentals. They are temporary
    fixes. You wouldn't fix a broken fan belt with a pair of tights,
    and leave it for six months because it happened to be working.
    
    A pro is paid as a pro because he knows something about the game,
    and about teaching. If relatives and friends were so good, then
    they'd be golf pro's themselves. Otherwise, ignore them !!
    
    Colin

    
     Most golf pros are NOT good teachers of golf fundamentals.  There is a
    big difference between a "teaching Pro" and a "golf Pro".  Those pros
    that have the talent to teach are not that common.  Most club pros have
    had more schooling in MERCHANDISING and RETAIL fundamentals, so they
    can run a pro shop, next comes the rules of golf, and little on
    teaching.
    
      Best advice, find a good teaching pro by REPUTATION.  I've watched
    the so-called teaching pro at Leo J. Martin, and he is a joke.  But the
    money is good.....

    re: .9
    	I second .10's reply...I've known a few people who have been
    to "teaching pros" for various lessons and each time they come
    away with a different thing that they are suppose to work on...
    
    Find a good teaching pro by REPUTATION who STRESSES FUNDAMENTALS
    grip/stance/alignment/balance and stick with it and lower scores
    will not be far behind...

    One of the toughest things to do in golf is to admit to yourself
    that you need help from a pro, get it, and stick with the change
    till it clicks in.
    
    I was playing very well this season -- even set a new PR at 80 (!)
    and then my game went south. I played myself out of the DEC league
    playoffs in one horrible round. I was slicing everything. I tried
    everything I knew could fix a slice; no luck. So I finally went
    to a pro at Stow Acres. In five minutes he set me right. He identified
    my problem, and I hit through a large bucket on the spot -- nothing
    but long, straight or drawn shots. It was fantastic!!
    
    It was also almost impossible to recreate consistenly. The next
    day I went out all set to lower my PR, and shot a terrible round.
    My grip is changed, my stance is changed, and my follow through
    is changed. All the tricks I'd developed to correct the compensations
    still creep into my swing, and they don't coexist well with my new,
    improved swing. They're fighting it out in there. Once in a while
    I'll get the new stuff right, and I'll hit a killer shot. But most
    of the time at this point I have a hybrid swing. I know what's wrong,
    I know how to correct it, but the muscle memory isn't there yet
    to do it consistently.
    
    There's a very strong temptation to go back to my old habits. But
    I'm trying hard to stick with the changes till they click in. I
    know they're right, and I know that my old swing is basically flawed;
    I dropped my scores this year through pure bullishness. If I have
    the patience to accept some terrible rounds, I know in the end that
    my game will be better. It's a painful process, but it's happened
    before. Last year I switched from a baseball grip to an interlock.
    I knew if I was ever going to be serious about golf, I couldn't
    do it with a baseball grip. It took a while for the change to feel
    natural. Now, if I hold the club with a baseball grip, it feels
    strange and unworkable.
    
    So see a reputable pro. Do what he/she says, and have patience.
    Losing bad habits is like losing weight: it takes a long time to
    get fat, and a long time to get thin again.

    re:.10,.11
    
    Okay, okay. All pro's are not made equal, (neither are all teachers,
    drivers, computers, .....) I was trying to give a general rule of
    thumb, i.e. if you pay for advice you should get sensible advice.
    If you ask a friend/relative/neighbour, you'll get advice, but it
    is less likely to be sensible advice. (Note *less* not *completely*
    !).
    
    You pays your money, you takes your choice. 
    
    I guess I'm just lucky. The pro who teaches me started with
    fundamentals (swing, grip, stance, body movement, etc). He said
    to get those right before you do anything else. I happen to agree
    ;-)
    
    In summary go to a pro, preferably a good one by recommendation,
    get the fundamentals right, and the game will follow.
    
    Colin
    
    
    P.S. Which end do you hold this stick, guvn'r !! :-) :-)

    My advice: sell your clubs and quit the blasted game.
    
    Joel
    

Speaking of games falling apart...

I joined a Digital golf league for the fiorst time, I started playing golf again
2 years ago after not playing at all for about 10 years. Well to make a long
story sort... I started out playing fairly well (15 handicP FOR 9 HOLES) 
and brought it down to a 10 by the end of July. Well since the second week of 
August I have played terribly, and my handicap is back up to a 15...

The only thing that I can think of is that I have lost a considerable amount of 
weight this summer and it has effected my swing greatly. 

This week was the last week of league play, so I have all winter to recover
but don't know where to start. I am also still losing weight  so don't know if 
any adjustments made now will be valid in the spring...


Any advice...

John