Conference 7.286::golf

      It's my understanding that the grooves are not the problem, it's
    the distance between them that is causing concern.
    
    Rick

    
    See note 376 for more info...

    Can anyone verify if the "square"grooves idea or design is patterned?
    If not they what is all the problem? Let the purchasing public decide
    the "square versus V'ed" groove issue. If the club is a "better"
    club by vertue of it's design the so be it. What's next? What if
    someone finds a better way to weight irons and they in turn are
    50% more accurate than the present clubs. Does this mean that this
    innovation will also be banned?
    Frankly I this this entire issue stems not from the average golfer
    but more from the Pro. So fine. Cut the fareways in tighter and
    grow the ruff thicker right next to the greens and let them play
    with the best clubs that can be engineered. 
    
    
    Tom 

Re: .-1

>    Frankly I this this entire issue stems not from the average golfer
>    but more from the Pro. So fine. Cut the fareways in tighter and
>    grow the ruff thicker right next to the greens and let them play
>    with the best clubs that can be engineered. 
    
     I agree that the issue is one for the Pro's not the average hacker.
     The USGA did some testing and found that square grooves only improved
     shots from the rough.  So your solution would benefit, not penalize
     square groove players!  Actually what you described was US Open conditions
     I don't find it interesting to see some guy shoot 2 under & win.  (Then
     again I don't enjoy enjoy everyone shooting out the lights with the
     winner shooting -20 at something like the Greater Maynard K-Mart Blue
     Light of Savings Classic or some other of those tour nondescript events.)

     Larry

    As I understand it, the thing that makes Ping square grooves different
    from other square grooves is that the "corners" are radiused rather
    than square. That creates a problem in measuring the distance between
    grooves. Do you measure the distance between the vertical walls
    of the groove, between the outward ends of the radii, or somewhere
    in-between?   | | = other square grooves
                
            ___       ____
               \     /
                |    |      = Ping square grooves.Obviously, the distance
    between grooves will depend on whether you measure from the vertical
    surfaces, the horizontal surfaces or somewhere along the backslashes
    that are supposed to represent radii. Solheim says the distance
    between grooves should be measured from vertical wall to vertical
    wall, and, has obviously designed the club to take fullest advantage
    of
    that interpretation. (i.e. as close together as possible). But if
    you take the measurement from anywhere else, the distance between
    grooves becomes smaller, and thus illegal.

Re: .-1

Other square grove clubs also radius the edges of the grooves.  If you didn't
you would tear the ball to shreads.  As it is I can put score marks on Surlyn 
covered balls.  The problem with Pings has to do with the angle formed by the 
radius.  The USGA considers their excessive and nonconforming to the rules of 
golf because it violates the minimum distance between grooves.

This month's Golf Journal has an interesting article that discusses grooves, 
the joint USGA & PGA testing program, etc.

Larry