Conference 7.286::golf

        Paul,
        
                I have hit metal woods for several years.  In a nutshell, 
        metal  woods give  you  a  phychological  handicap  when  hitting 
        because they are smaller.    When you overcome this, you discover 
        that they give you better  feedback  on  how  good your swing was 
        (you can hear the difference between  a  sweet  spot and marginal 
        hit) and supposedly the ball flies farther  when  hit  right.   I 
        love them and recommend them.
        
        Anker

     I got a set of the (offset) Wilson metals last year.  To me, the
     biggest inherent difference between metal and persimmon is that
     the metal woods are weighted more heavily on the bottom than the
     persimmon ones; as a result, the club head tends to be slightly
     lower.  For me, this works out particularly well on fairway shots,
     but gives me a tendency to hit tee shots too high.  This year,
     I've been using my old persimmon driver, with metal 3, 5, and 7
     woods.  (The metal 7 wood is fantastic -- a great club for getting
     out of trouble.)
     
     --Don

    > (The metal 7 wood is fantastic -- a great club for getting
    > out of trouble.)
     
     Is a "metal 7 wood" a long pitching wedge with a fat head?
    
    Ed "purest! hanging on to my Wilson Staffs with adjustable swing
    weights(14 years old)" Hacker

    I've been using Pinnacle metal woods for three years now, and purchased
    another metal driver (Taylor Made - tour burner 9.5 deg/stiff)
    recently.
    
    Once you have played with metal, you may never go back.  Hitting
    a "wood wood" now, feels like hitting a rock with a marshmallow
    on the end of a stick.
    
    Peter

	I'm right  now  playing PowerBilt metal woods (Pro Sonic) - they
	are traditionally shaped, i.e look just like 'wooden woods'
 	unlike some others. 
	I  have  foune  that  metal woods don't give the same feeling as
	wooden  woods do, however they are much more forgiving - you can
	mis-hit the shot and still get away with it; even if the ball is
	not hit dead-centre the shot would still turn out OK.
	As far as distance goes - I don't think metal woods give more 
	distance, it is just perceived that way since you hit more
	straight shots because of the forgiving nature of metals.

                           -< Metals vs Wooden Woods>-
    
    	I just picked up some Taylors ( metals) because I was having
    problems with my driver slicing. I could hit the 3 wood pretty good
    ...straight and far off the tee, but would slice a little off the
    fairway.   Well after getting the Metals my prblems slicing have
    gone, probably due to their forgiveness. I miss hit a few drives
    and payed little price for it, where the woods would punish severely
    by slicing a banana slice into the woods...the metals simply started
    off   off-line but remained mostly straight. 
    
    			Metals are a MUST !
    
    	Walt
    
    	Golf? Anytime  ANyplace   ( as long as it's not a plane ride
    away)
    

	I have tried, hit, both types of woods and see the only advantage
    to the metal woods is they are in fact more forgiving. So, this
    would denote that the average player, above 18 over par, should
    try the metal woods to improve their game a level or so. I would
    not reccomend the metal woods to a sub 80's player. The metal wood
    does not allow for, easily, different types of shots; ie: slice
    or fade on one hole and hook or draw on another. The metal woods
    make it harder to move the ball. 
    
    	As a general statement, if the metal woods are better products
    we would see more of them on the pro tour. If one has a problem
    with hooking or slicing of the ball, and wants to correct it with
    every club, take lessons. There are a lot more things that cause
    slicing or hooking that are equipment related; shaft stiffness,
    club length, swing weight of the club, to name a few. Once you have
    all of these equipment related issues sized for you, start working
    on your adress, swing and follow through. 
    
    	I am an avid, sub 80's player, and I use wood woods. They work
    for me but that doesn't necessarily mean they are best for everyone.
    

    re: -1
    
    There all over the Tour. Maybe not the big names, although Trevino
    is probably big enough. And the major reason? Accuracy on mishits.
    You probably like your woods because you frequently hit the sweet
    spot and rarely mishit a ball. I also disagree that you can't
    manipulate a golf ball with metal woods. I have a 7 degree Taylor
    Metal wood and can slice or hook at will. I have more problems than
    I do with a 10 degree club but I can still do it without much effort.
    
    Roger
    

	This is not the most conducive forum for debate but it does
    provide the opportunity for transfers of opinions, accenting opinions.
    If in reading 10.8 you'll find that "'can't' manipulate the ball"
    is not referrenced. I commented to the fact that it is not easily
    accomplished. In support of that view I contest that if a club
    is more forgiving, meaning crucifixion does not occur on a mishit
    ball, as Roger and I have both mentioned, than the club does not
    promote ease of different shots. I beleieve Roger and I are in
    agreement that if a player is at a level where they can move the ball 
    in either direction at will, then they can do so with almost anything; 
    including milk bottles ie: Wally Meyers. (Name dropper)
    
    	I apologize if I was misinterpreted, but my intent was to provide
    an opinion that holds true for most golfers; recognizing most golfers
    enjoy playing one shot and one shot only. My rebutal is intended
    for clarification, not a proclamation of right or wrong, and is written
    in what may be termed as marginally humorous. 

    	Signed: Virgina's having fun......

    	I agree with .8 in the fact that if Metals were that much better
     than wood woods, almost all the touring pros would be using them.
     Roger, you seem to be knowlegable about many golf issues and I'm
     not trying to say you're wrong, but I did go to the GHO this year
     and I do watch a lot of golf on TV, and I honestly cannot say I've
     seen to many pros playing with metal woods.  You are right that
     some of them do, but the majority do not.  I couldn't give an exact
     percent but as a guess, I'd say about 80% do not play with metals.
    	I also agree that more than anything, the reasons for slicing
     or hooking the ball, or just plain mishitting a shot, has more
     to do with swing mechanics and the proper club for your own 
     particular swing.
    	One reason that has not been mentioned to play metal woods over
     wooden woods is durability.  If you play a solid ball, like Top
     Flite for an example, Metal woods are for you.  These solid balls
     can be very damaging to your woods even with proper care.  Metal
     woods can stand up to the beating much better.  That is why most
     Driving Ranges that offer clubs for you to use have Metal clubs
     now instead of wooden ones.
    

    I just found this notes confernce yesterday so I thought I would
    jump in somewhere (I'll register soon).
    
    I have a couple of metal woods just to see how they feel. I really
    couldn't tell too much difference between the metal and wooden clubs.
    I did not like the fact that the metal head ws smaller.
    Psychologically, I need a wood (driver in particular) with a bigger
    head. But that's only my personal preference.
    
    As far as accuracy, yes, metal woods are slightly more accurate
    than the wooden clubs. They tend to hook a little less and slice
    a little less too when mishit. The pros would rather have a club
    that they can use to work the ball easier (as someone mentioned
    earlier). The toughest shot to hit is a dead straight shot so the
    pros always make it move from left to right or vice versa (even
    if it is just a little bit).
    
    Another point to be made about metal woods out hitting the wooden
    clubs. That can't be true period. If it were, than the clubs would
    probably be out lawed (just like a ball that goes 500 yards or doesn't
    hook or slice). Our friendly neighborhood rules makers can't allow
    something like a metal wood to drastically change the game.
    
    Mike

    I AM A RELATIVELY LOW HANDICAPPER AND, FOR ME, THE METAL WOODS FLY
    HIGHER AND SHORTER FOR THE SAME LOFT AS A TRADITIONAL WOOD.  HOWEVER,
    THEY ARE EASIER TO HIT IN MOST CASES.  I USE A WOOD DRIVER AND CARRY
    A METAL TAYLOR TOUR SPOON (ABOUT LIKE A 2 WOOD).  THE SPOON WORKS
    LIKE A 3-WOOD FOR ME.

    I tried a metal wood after using a deep-faced Titlest stiff driver
    - I had a lot of trouble not hooking the ball. This may have resulted
    more from the metal wood being a regular shaft more than anything
    else.
    
    For myself, the shots do seem more lively - but I don't like the
    sound, looks or hooks. (9 han.)

    
    
    The game of golf is a funny one. Many factors influence your game.
    Comfort and confidence are most important, so i would say to just
    find a set of woods you feel comfortable with and try working on
    the short game.
    
    I usually hit the drives pretty good, but without the putter, you
    are just hitting balls...not golfing. I use the metal woods now
    because they just have a better feel for me.
    
                                           Euge

    Metal woods?  Thats like seeing aluminum bats in baseball. You will
    never get the same sweet feeling with a metal wood.  I know you
    have a different feeling, but if God had intended golfers to use
    metal woods he would have planted more petrified forests.  Know
    what I mean?

    RE -.1
    		If GOD had meant for humans to play Golf, he would have
    given us longer arms, metal hands, and we would all own 50 acres!!!
    
                                                          Beak

    This is an old note, but I think it's a good one.
    
    At the beginning of this year I bought a set of Dunlop Red Max metal
    woods (driver, 3, 5). I have always been ok off the tee and a wood
    from the fairway. I have always used wood/woods till this year.
    I *love* these metal woods. They really do seem to go straighter
    and usually farther. 
    
    I play with a couple of big hitters and in the past the almost always
    out-drove me. Now I can keep right up with them, and many time I
    out-drive them. I know you still gotta put the ball in the hole,
    but it sure makes that 2nd shot a lot easier when you get off the
    tee. Not only the tee shots, but I think my fairway wood shots (3,5)
    are *much* more accurate and with a lot more distance.
    
    I, too, had said that golf should be played with wood/woods, but
    now I would not go back. My game has improved because of them. I
    still don't shoot par, cause I still can't putt, but I am *very*
    confident with these woods. I recommend them or metal in general.
    They are also much less expensive than persimman(sp) woods, and
    a lot less care.
    
    Smitty
    

    Always use to use wood woods.  Just bought a new set of metal woods and
    am very pleased with the results.  The drives are much better, as so
    far as removing my slice, unless I get tired then nothing can help the
    game.  
    
    	Mike

    Well, I hate to admit it, but I am no longer a purist. It layman's
    terms, that means I bought a metal driver. I did this mostly for
    smiles and giggles. However, I am beginning to like this club. I
    bought it because they are finally making metal woods with a deeper
    face like wooden ones.
    
    In general, I found it hard to maneuver the ball. Drawing and fading
    at will was tough. I guess I'll just have to hit it straight from
    now on :-). The club was definitely forgiving.
    
    I found I could increase my distance from what I read in Golf Digest
    (driver - 5 iron and I was on a par 5 in 2). Basically, Golf Digest
    said that metal clubs are becoming more and more popular on the
    tour. How popular? Well, remember they guy who said that if metal
    woods were that good, the pros would be using them. According to
    Golf Digest, some 80% of the touring pros are using them (including
    Jack Nicklaus!!!!). Nicklaus sees the light with the metal clubs
    and now understands why the increase in distances. Since the club
    is more forgiving and will not bend (i.e. hook or slice) as much,
    the pros are making a harder pass at the ball off the tee and
    therefore, producing a faster clubhead speed (which will give them
    more yardage).
    
    So much for being a purist.... However, I still like my wooden 4
    wood. I use it off the tee from time to time and I can smoke it
    from the fairway if I need to.
    
    Mike

    Hey Mike you left me hanging!  What are the specs & name of the
    driver.  I'm giving serious consideration to making one for myself
    and would like know the specs and your thoughts on what is important.
    
    
    
    						KO

    KO:
    
    I bought a Taylor Made metal wood (Burner Plus). It has a stiff
    shaft and a 9.5 degree face. I was looking at 7 and 7.5 degree clubs
    but I think they would only be somewhat useful in the summer when
    the run makes a difference on a dry fairway.
    
    If anyone is interested, I bought this at New England Golf Supply
    on route 20 in Marlboro. I think it was $70 or $80 (which was cheaper
    than Nevada Bob's). They have a couple of nets there so you can
    swing the club and see how it feels. I then proceeded directly to
    the driving range on route 9 in Westboro and knocked a few balls
    around before heading to Marlboro Country Club to play some real
    holes.
    
    Mike

    
    Taylor Made.  Thanks Mike.  I believe that this has standard buldge
    and roll and had a weight port on the bottom.  I'll look in the
    pro shops.  I'm making one now with a similiar setup (std buldge,roll)
    but has a 1� open face instead of 2.  It's probably the one I'll
    do for myself this winter.
    
    BTW a mutual friend of ours is going to be on your case for not
    talking to me before your bought that club. :-)
    
    					KO

    
    During the Byron Nelson classic this past weekend one of the
    commentators mentioned something similar to the fallowing. 60%
    of the players were using metal woods and they were averaging
    about 2 yards farther on their drives than the players with wood
    woods... Did any body catch it, was that basicly what was said...?
    
    
    Gene

    YEP, that's what the man said....he also went on to say that
    if they did the survey/test again, that the probability exists
    that the reverse would happen i.e. woods = 2yds longer than metals.
    Joe C
    

    re: .25
    
    Hard to figure...a shot that goes straighter would always seem to
    be longer if you are measuring for distance and the metals DO GO
    STRAIGHTER...slightly mishit with wood woods and you don't get
    the distance you get with a slightly mishit metal wood because the
    metals go straighter even on a mishit..!!???
    
    So even though the statistics of proability would seem to go along
    with the reverse being true if they tested again I'd still bet on
    the metals being 2+ yards longer....

      Does anyone know how Graphite clubs rate?  I use a Mizno driver, and 
    I haven't noticed much of a difference between that and my old woods.
    
                                          Dean

    Yes, I've used both, I recommend you talk to a pro, or golf shop
    i.e. Navada Bos's, they will measure you, tell you how long your
    clubs should be, weight, flex etc....they really helped me.  I
    get 30 to 40 yards more distance with metal woods vs. wooden woods,\
    and I find them easier to control.....
    
    Good luck...
    
    Before you buy, be sure to get measured, get something that suites
    you, not something you have to suit.....
    
    

    I have switched this year to a metal wood. I picked up a Taylor
    Made 9.5 degree loft driver used with a stiff titaniam shaft.
    I to find it easier to control. This has put the driver back 
    into my bag. 
    
    
    Tom

    metal vs wood "woods"
    In response to the metal vs wood question, I deliberated the same idea
    awhile back and here is what I came up with, I like the feel of the
    wood woods when you hit the sweet spot much better than metal woods,
    although the sweet spot seems larger on the metal woods the feel wasnt
    there, I went out and bought a graphite wood (and graphite shaft) this
    club has the feel of a wooden wood with reel good distance and acuracy. 
    What ever you decide try them out first.......good luck...........
    
    Dave_M

    Here is a new view. I put away my Taylor made and went back to my
    perssimon after 8 mnths. Why? The swing weight. Most metals are D-0
    and my woods are D-4. I have better feel of the club head with heavier
    swing weight. I must admit I did not attempt to add lead tape, perhaps
    I should. It is true that metals will forgive.
    
    Digger

    
    You can make your own conclusions from this...
    
    Woosnam,Olazabal and Faldo (Nos 1,2 & 3 in the world at the moment)
    all used wooden headed drivers at this years Masters. 
    
    Watson and Wadkins, who were both in contention at the Masters, 
    both used Metal headed Drivers.
    
    Would I be correct in assuming that Pros with their best years behind
    them, are turning to metal to stay competative ? 
    
    ...Derek.
    
    
    

    Re; -1
    
    I believe Woosie was using the ADX driver which is a graphite headed
    driver. 
    
    I think you find more pro's using wood because of the ability to work
    the ball. It is easier to work the ball with wood than it is with
    metal. Hence, the attraction to metal by the average player. 
    
    Metal=less spin=straighter shots
    Wood=softer hitting surface=more spin. 
    
    I heard the ratio is 50/50 wood to metal on tour. Favorite club may
    also have something to do with it. You see the pro's change irons every
    other year, but they tend to keep their driver and putter forever. 
    
    
    My $.02 worth.
    
    Ken

    From March Golf Illustrated...
    
    			TOUR PLAYERS DRIVER LOFTS
    
    METAL					WOOD
    
    BRAD FAXON		7.0			SEVE BALLESEROS		9.0
    ROBERT GAMEZ	8.5			BEN CRENSHAW		9.0
    SCOTT HOCH		8.5			NICK FALDO		9.5
    ROCCO MEDIATE	9.5			TOM KITE	       10.5
    JODIE MUDD		7.0			BRUCE LIETZKE		9.0
    MARK O'MEARA	9.5			SANDY LYLE		9.0
    STEVE PATE		8.5			GREG NORMAN		9.0
    JOEY SINDELAR	8.5			JOSE OLAZABAL		9.0
    CURTIS STRANGE	9.0			TOM WATSON		9.0
    LEE TREVINO		8.5			IAN WOOSNAM		9.0
    
    just a sampling for your review....
    
    Rick

    I used metals for years and last summer I tried a set of Ping
    wood/woods that Juniper Hill had as demos...I ended up buying
    a set and would not go back. The feel was so much better I felt
    like a blind man suddenly being able to see. With the increased
    feedback I was able to gain accuracy and distance. They do require
    more care i.e. Head covers are mandatory but well worth it. I still
    use a metal 7 wood as that club is good for trouble spots ans as
    such takes more of a beating. 
    
    Chris