Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    My mother and father have owned organs for years. When they retired
    to Florida, their gift to each other was to buy a new one...
    
    They shopped, compared, horse-traded, dickered and finally got what
    they believed to be the end all and be all of home organs. (I dunno
    the name.) Built in rhythm generator, auto chord, lotsa presets,
    flashing lights, hot and cold running water, everything...
    
    ...except MIDI!!!!
    
    ...and it cost them >$10K!!!!!!
    
    I haven't seen it personally, but there's a good chance it's got
    alot more than they are aware of, none the less, unless having a
    piece of furniture is an issue, one should be able to get orders
    of magnitudes more functionality outta what we all know as "MIDI
    gear"...
    
    Edd

    I'm interested in some box that contains separate sounds for 3
    different keyboards (2 for my hands,1 for my feet) that can be
    connected to 3 seperate keyboards.
    It all must be compatible with what I should call an 'average pipo organ'.
    The 'bass' keyboard (the one for my feet) must be 'full blown'
    (27 keys) to be able to play classical jsb-like stuff.
    
    Does this kind of box exist?
    
    Mari

    There is at least one such box, made "especially for this sort of
    thing", although I'd think any multitimbral, polyphonic MIDI "box"
    ought to do this as well (set up Great manual for MIDI channel 1,
    Swell sends on Ch. 2 and pedal on MIDI ch 3. 
    
    The "box" I know of that was made as an "organ in a box" is the
    Wersi extender box, I don't know its part number for sure, but I
    can find out (I *think* it's called an EX10 or something close to
    that).  
    
    What are you using for keyboards/pedals - a MIDI equipped organ?
    
    	-Jim

    Re .2 
    
    I know that Rodgers (?sp) actually makes sets of MIDI-controlled
    pipes, for use on their "electronics'n'pipes" hybrid organs.
    
    I've always wished that a company like Allen or Rodgers, who spend
    so much time and effort on sampling the classical pipe organ, would
    sell a "box" with all of the Allen or Rodgers sounds - for use with
    any MIDI controller...
    
    	-Jim

    An uncle and aunt of mine did essentially as .0 did; went out and
    bought the biggest, fanciest, baddest electronic organ around. 
    
    This thing accepts ROM cartridges that are preprogrammed with various
    "favorites" and all you have to do is to press the keys that have
    lit LEDs to play the song.  Or, if you want, you can tell it to
    press the keys for itself.
    
    This thing cost as much as a small car and (with the exception of
    the cartridge-ROM "sequencer" ) does less than my smallest, stupidest
    SGU does.
    
    But then again, it's pretty "furniture", in it's wood (or is it
    Formica?) case. 
    
    When I visit, I try not to point, laugh, giggle, or vomit....
    
    	-Bill 

    Dontcha love it when they sit down to play those things and have
    the arpeggiator running, the drums running, the genie chord running,
    and one-finger a melody?  Usually it starts out okay.  And, I guess
    it sounds all right, being a marvel of technology and reaching new 
    credit limits.  But, I wish they would play more that one chord per
    song ... at least a different chord with each song would help ...
    
    Steve

    ref .3
    
    At the moment I have a Yamaha PF2000 plus an Yamaha EMT-10 box
    connected to it.
    This offers me a nice piano (PF2000 has 88 weighted keys) and via ROM
    cartridge a lot of funny sounds.
    Upgrade will be done (dutch guilders is here the limiting factor) in
    steps:
    
    1) some 'organ' box as described in .2 connected to my PF2000
    
    if this box has all the feature I mentioned begin
    
       2) find 27 foot pedals in a row with a midi cable
       3) buy a second keyboard that becomes my second 'manual'
    
    wow....then I don't have spent Saterday evenings in a cold church
    to practice for Sunday morning!
    
    Any idea of the price of such a Wersi box?
    
    Mari 

    < Note 1995.7 by UTRUST::SLAGBOOM "another bugcheck please....." >
>    At the moment I have a Yamaha PF2000 plus an Yamaha EMT-10 box
>    connected to it.
    
    I think i saw a Keyboard mag review of the EMT-10.. it uses AWM
    (Advanced Wave Memory?) technology.. got very good review for the
    piano sounds.. am I thinking of the same one ?
    
    karl

    It's AWM, it does have nice piano sounds, don't know about the review,
    so.....I think you think about the same box.
    
    Mari

    
    One thing that most organs have that MIDI gear doesn't is *lots* of
    polyphony...like lean on every key and pedal all at once, and you get
    all 100+ notes.  This might have a bit to do with the price. Even my
    1971 vintage Lowrey has 70 note (37 + 32 + 1; they cheated on the
    pedalboard, it's mono) polyphony, gee I only need *5* D-50s to get that
    much polyphony...... 
    
    I saw the Wersi kit that Heathkit sells, and noticed that it does *not*
    have such polyphony, I think it had 16 notes or so, but you could add
    extra "voices" in modules if you needed more.  Looked like a reasonable
    MIDI controller if you prefer an organ-type (with pedal board)
    interface rather than piano-type. 

    WERSI has 2 expander boxes.  EX10R and EX20.  Summary as follows
    
    EX10R
    
    	Rack Mount 5 1/4 inched in height
    
    	9 drawbars (Hammond Organ Sounds)
    	Supports Touch Sensitive
    	Supports Velocity Sensitive
    	Transposer
    	Glide Controls
    	Pitch Control
    	Voice Layering
    	Create rhytym
    	Create bass patterns
    	Create chord patterns
    	Create solo patterns
    	Create song sequence	
    	Foot switch - start/stop, rotor speed, sustain, transpose, glide
    	16 total presets (3 keyboards)
    	50 sounds (changable by programming or ROM cartidge)
    	48 Rhythm patterns
    	Midi in/out/through
    	and many effects that I'm not going to type in.
    
    EX20 the same, but adds VCO, VCA, and Fourier Synthesis
    	Stereo assignment, and a 200 feature processor to modify
    	sounds on the fly.  DOes not have the rhythm section.
    
    
    Prices:
    
    NOTES			EX10R				EX20
    
    8				$1990				$1490
    16				$2450				$1950
    20				$2910				$2410
    
    
    and as usual, these modules can be updated to the latest technology
    as it becomes available by purchasing a new card.  No need to throw
    your investment away.
    
    
    						Chris

    Thanks for taking the time to supply all this info but....it's not
    exactly what I have in mind.
    
    I really think of a sampled classical 'pipe' organ in a box.
    A seperate set of presets for 3 different keyboards.
    Possibility to mix all presets per keyboard.
    
    In short: 100% compatible with an organ.
    
    They put piano's,harpsychords,guitars even complete brass bands in
    boxes.....why not a bunch of pipes?
    
    Mari

    With the addition of yet another tier on my USS stand, I now have
    a triple-manual "organ", with each manual capable of at least several
    reasonable organ sound patches.
    
    All I need now are the pedal manual.  (er, the footpedal register?).
    
    (and no, I can't play it worth b***s, but I can and am learning.
    That's the second-most-fun part.  The most fun part is blasting
    Tocatta and Fugue in Dmin on Oct. 30.  :-) )
    
    	-Bill 

    re.12
    
    Ah.. Details you want...
    
    Listed Pipe Organ Sounds on the EX20 are:
    
    	Gedeckt, Quintadena, Sesiquialter, Cornet, Spitzflute, Principal
    	Principal 8-1/2', Flute 8-1/4', Flute 16'/8', Mixture 16', Tutti 1,
    	Tutti 2, Pipe 1-4, Bass Flute, Bass Tutti.
    
    	Also a RAM and ROM cartridge called Liturgical.
    
    
    					Chris

    
    I'm glad to see some discussion on this topic as I've been playing the 
    organ since 1970. 
    
    I've been a Yamaha Electone enthusiast ever since.  I've moved from a
    B10R (1970)  to a  D3 with a Minipops rhythm unit (1972)  to a  FS500
    (1983).  I currently have a HX-3 with a  MDR-2P (MIDI Data Recorder). 
    Recently I hooked it to my Macintosh running Mark of the Unicorn's
    Performer (just got the V3 update flyer ... looks even better!).
    
    If anyone has any questions on Yamaha's HX line, give me a call.  I'm
    not on commission, but I'm a big fan!  I confess to being a Yamaha
    bigot ... and with good reason.
    
    In my opinion Yamaha produce the best range of organs (called
    "Electones") available today and have done so for years.  Their range
    includes models for home use, costing only a few thousand dollars to
    models suitable for professional performers costing tens of thousands
    of dollars.  As with any musical instrument you get what you pay for!
    
    I think that organs are typically easier to use than synthesizers,  
    particularly by novices.  
    
    The features on Yamaha's organs are similar to the features provided by
    a typical setup of master keyboard(s)/synthesizer(s), tone generators, 
    drum machines, sequencers, amplifier, speakers, etc..  However, an
    organ typically houses all of the components in one package.  You'll
    find organs packaged as "classy" pieces of furniture, others have more
    of a  "high-tech" look.  [Some models are notoriously bad for aesthetics 
    and look like cheap trash (no biases here!)]
    
    You typically get two keyboards, 49 notes (spinet) or 61 notes (console) 
    for the left and right hand. You also get a pedal keyboard or 13, 21 
    or 25 notes.  The keyboards are polyphonic (pedal - monophonic) and can
    be touch sensitive.  
    
    You can have concurrent tone generators (FM, AWM) playing combining 
    string instruments, percussion instruments, wind instruments, 
    hi-tech instruments, etc.;  Rhythm section;  Effects;  Sequencers;  
    Registration presets;  MIDI capabilities;  etc.  Ie. you can have all
    sorts of options depending on what you're willing to pay.  
    
    You can easily move from a classical style to a brass band, to an
    orhcestra, to a contemporary sound.  Through MIDI data recorders you
    can record and edit your performances, and take advantage of MusicSoft
    disks from Yamaha.  
    
    Through MIDI I can hook into all the other things discussed in this
    conference.  Isn't technology great!
    
    
    I think that the key advantage of an organ is that you can learn to
    play more easily. You can produce a decent sound more quickly than you
    can with a piano.  
    
    At the age of 7, like most kids, I took piano lessons.   I had to be
    forced to practice and I hated practicing the mundane exercises that I
    was supposed to.  I hated it, my teacher hated it and my parents
    hated it!  After a year I finally quit.  I didn't seem to have the
    aptitude or the interest. 
    
    However, when I was 10 my family moved overseas for 2 1/2 years.  For
    the first three months, we lived in a hotel.  We got to know the hotel
    organist and pretty soon my father and I started having lessons.  As a
    kid, I enjoyed playing the organ.  My parents never had to tell me to
    practice.  I learnt to play "real songs" and with the different sounds
    available on the organ I even sounded good!  Within a year, on
    Saturday's I started playing outside my teacher's music shop in the
    local shopping mall. I entered into the Yamaha Music Festival.
    
    Well, since then I've never looked back.  I advanced to teaching
    beginners organ lesson in my late teens.  The only problem I have
    nowadays is finding the time to play.  If I can make the time, one day,
    I'll be as good as I used to be!  
    
    
    Well, that's it for now. 
    
    Roger Crown
    
    GLDOA::CROWN, ROGER CROWN @FHO
    (DTN)444-2198
    
    

    I say.
    
    I have been playing the organ since 1974.  I have played on Hammond,
    Technics, Wurlitzer (sp?), and Yamaha and I also found Yamaha to be the
    best.  They also have a very well established system of schools,
    teaching methods, textbooks, concerts, competitions (Yamaha Music
    Festival, as .15 mentioned).
    
    One advantage that I believe the organ has over the "separates" is that
    it is designed to allow better integration with the performer: all
    controls are logically placed and within easy reach.  My 15-year old
    E-5 has a knee lever that allow me to switch registration without
    taking my hands off the keyboard!
    
    Another problem with "separates" with many people is that one has to be
    knowledgeable to be able to put together a good (even compatible and
    working) system.  It is like building your own computer instead of
    buying one.
    
    Well, the problem with the organ is (at least for me) the high price
    (why do you think I am still holding on to an organ that's 15 years old).
    
    Chong ("d**n lottery").