Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I've been interested in wunna these for awhile. List is what, $595???
    
    Can I ask ya what the going price is??
    
    Edd

RE < Note 1697.1 by WEFXEM::COTE "Name changed to protect innocence" >
    
>    Can I ask ya what the going price is??
    
	I heard Sam Ash was gonna sell 'em for $415.

	Dan

I paid $495 at Wurly's in Worcester. I forgot to mention that it does
respond to aftertouch and velocity.

dave

    The major drawback in my mind is that they are *NOT* polytimbral. 

    Sure, you can put 'em in cascade mode via MIDI OUT and have up to 36
    voices at a time, but who cares if you can't play more than one patch
    at a time? 

    At least my Xa splits - it won't respond to 2 channels, but you can
    cheat on one channel if you have to.  The 1000 won't even split - at
    least that's what I was told. 

    I love the Oberheim sound.  I wish that someone would come out with a
    really *good* analog box-in-a-rack with the same features as some of
    the more popular digital units (poly-timbral, dynamic voice allocation,
    respond to poly aftertouch, etc).  And that didn't cost an arm 'n' a
    leg. 

-b

    You get polytimbral on both the Xpander and Matrix-12.  Also more
    modulation routings, etc.
    
    I picked up a used mint-condition Xpander for $800�.  That's more
    expensive but you get front-panel programmability with it.
    
    Unfortunately, it doesn't rack...
    	
    	-Bill

    re 0: yeah, but did you like it?
    
    len.
    

>    re 0: yeah, but did you like it?

;^)) you got it Len! The point is that it sounds fantastic! For this price
you don't expect to get every whiz-bang feature of units costing ten times
as much. You just get 1000 unbelievable sounds! At say 30 seconds per patch,
it will take you over 8 hours just to try them all out! It's 50� per patch.
They do all kinds of things to the filters and envelopes using the velocity,
aftertouch, and even the sustain pedal. Some of the patches take the whole
30 seconds or longer going through filter sweeps, pitch envelopes, volume
envelopes, and other strange doings. If you want multitimbral buy more
units and don't cascade them. Assign one to each channel. The sounds are
already so fat, I can't see MIDI stacking them anyway. This unit is worth
checking out. At $495 or $415 it is a steal. When you test it, don't
expect a patch to just sit there and let you play the keys. You have to
use pressure, velocity, the sustain pedal, and lots of patience to find
out what hidden audio pleasures lie in wait for the casual patch poker.
Some of the patches are very soft, others are very LOUD. The bass patches
usually sound best played in the range of E0 thru E3, and may not even
be audible above C4. Some of the patches do not seem to be velocity
sensitive. Others are not pressure sensitive or sustain pedal responsive.
It's a giant grab-bag of audio fun.

dave    

    The grab-bag effect is a consequence of the wealth of possible inter-
    connections in a Matrix-style synth.  Most of the default patches
    in the Xpander have no velocity sense at all; I've had to put it
    in myself. 
    
    (I guess that's due to the lack of affordable velocity controllers
    when the Xpander was first released; most people couldn't afford
    a velocity controller, hence the patches were built to not require
    velocity.)
             
    Does the Matrix-1000 have the BUGFARTS patch?  :-)
    
    	-Bill

    dunno.  But, I'm sure I can squeeze one out on my sampler next time
    that I'm ... uh ... 'in the mood'.  ;^)
    
    Steve

    There _really_ _is_ such a patch on the Xpander.  I hope the
    Matrix-1000 designers saw fit to immortalize it in the 1000's ROM!
                                                                  
    	-Bill

    It's a good thing it's synthesized; can you imagine the tiny little
    microphone you'd need if you wanted to *sample* it????
    
    ...not to mention the difficulty in getting bugs to eat a burrito.
    
    Edd

    I not understand recent musical terms used,,, what is 'rust'?
    what is 'cider' ?  what is 'pothole' ?
    
    must be cultural differences, eh?

    the desert rat    

    Rust - a fruit blight caused by a fungus.

    Cider - the elixir of the apple, freshly pressed every Wed & Sat AM. 

    Pothole - imperfections in the skin of an apple due to denting from
	      hail. 

    We have apples for dessert, not rats.

&*}

MIDI is a state of mind.

  None can see it. 

    None can touch it. 

      It carries the wisdom of the the ages,

        beyond the present, 

      into the future,

    on a strand of copper 

forged from the mountain.

Orimoto

RE: Dave Orin (not the philosophy note 8-)

    Agreed - your observations on the 1000 are probably correct.  I was
    just griping because the TX81z is out there, AND polytimbral, AND in
    that price range. 

    But it ain't near as fat.

-b

    I'm glad you liked it, 'cuz I'm picking mine up Saturday morning.
    
    len.
    

re.17 -

I bought a TX81Z mail order from Caruso's. I got their demo model for $300
and tried it out for a month. I then sold if for $350 in the WantAdvertiser.
I don't mind making $50 to try out a new piece of gear. Compared to the D110
and Matrix 1000 I was extremely underwhelmed by the TX81Z. I couldn't
justify taking up a rack space, but then I'm not an FM lover anyway. It's all
a matter of personal taste. 

re.16 -

Congrats, Len. I think you're gonna love it.


dave

How expressive is the Matrix-1000? Does it respond to breath control so I can 
use my WX7 with it? I have a TX81z and some of the sounds are a little thin 
especially the strings. This could be an interesting combination.

Geoff 

Geoff,

>How expressive is the Matrix-1000? Does it respond to breath control so I can 
>use my WX7 with it? I have a TX81z and some of the sounds are a little thin 
>especially the strings. This could be an interesting combination.

The M1000 is very expressive in terms of the various controls including
velocity, aftertouch, sustain, and even release. It does not have any special
breath control features that I know of. Can the WX7 affect velocity, aft, sus
or rel? It would be interesting to try. Do you live near Hudson MA?

dave

Recently, I've noticed that my Matrix-1000 is the noisiest beast in my rig.
(Bear in mind that my rig is pretty quiet, so this is a minor nit.  The
hum is not excessive and would not constitute a product defect.)  The
problem?  Good ol' analog-ish 60 Hz hum.  I get it most when the case is
mounted in the rack.  If I take the case out of the rack or power it down, the
hum goes away.  If I take it out of the rack and let it sit by itself, the 
hum is cut drastically and is reduced to what hum comes through the output
jack.  Run a wire from the case to the rack and the hum comes back in full,
agonizing glory.  Grounding the case with the mixer does the same.  But, 
grounding only through the output jack reduces the hum to about the level of 
the hiss from my TZ.  And, yes, I tried all possibilities of swapping plugs 
and cords around.  Though I haven't cracked it open, it would seem there is
some funny stuff happening as far as ground attachments to the Matric case go.

Only reason I found this was because I've gone to �'' reel to reel instead of 
my Rat Shack cassette player.  The noise generated by the cassette player
exceeds the noise of the SGUs.  Mind you, I got the Rat Shack player that
had the best specs at the time.  When I went to reel to reel, the overall 
noise went down, making the hum from the Matrix apparent.  The reel to reel 
seems to beat the cassette player for being quiet.  We're talking noise 
generated by the cassette player just sitting there.  To a casual listen,
you don't hear noise from the player or the SGUs until you crank the
volume up really high. 


Steve

< Note 1697.22 by MIZZOU::SHERMAN "quality first cause quality lasts" >
                              -< BUZZZzzzzzz.... >-

>Recently, I've noticed that my Matrix-1000 is the noisiest beast in my rig.
>problem?  Good ol' analog-ish 60 Hz hum.  I get it most when the case is
>mounted in the rack.  If I take the case out of the rack or power it down, the
>hum goes away.  If I take it out of the rack and let it sit by itself, the 
>hum is cut drastically and is reduced to what hum comes through the output
>jack.  Run a wire from the case to the rack and the hum comes back in full,
>agonizing glory.  Grounding the case with the mixer does the same.  But, 
>grounding only through the output jack reduces the hum to about the level of 

Steve,

It sounds like you are having ground loop problems, or else perhaps a power
supply filtering problem. My M1000 does not exhibit the hum problem. Have
you tried disconnecting the ground shield on the audio output cable? I've
had the same problem with other equipment and it was always due to ground
loops.

dave

    I did disconnect the ground shield on the Matrix output (suspecting
    ground looping through the shield).  It still hummed when I had
    it in the rack.  I did the disconnect by pulling the RCA connector
    out far enough that the signal connected but the ground didn't.
    I'll play with it some more tonight.
    
    Steve

    I'm having the exact same problems with my Deltalab ADM 1024 delay
    and haven't found anything that works yet.
    
    	db

    Well, last night I tried to play around with the problem some more.
    But, my wife was making noise (making cookies!) in the kitchen that 
    muffled all hum and hiss (the setup is in the living room adjacent to 
    the kitchen).  Granted, I was using phones that don't muffle outside 
    noises.  But, I had all outputs turned up all the way and couldn't 
    distinguish the hum like I could the night before when all was quiet 
    in the apartment.  (See, it really is a quiet system.)  I suspect that 
    for some reason my noise levels were all lower, possibly the result of 
    cleaner power (I do run power through surge protection and
    filtering)?  Don't know.  But, my current setup is pretty quiet with
    the Matrix sitting outside the rack.  For now, that's just fine.
    
    Steve

    
    You may be picking up hum from some *other* unit's power supply.
    
    I had a graphic EQ that seemed noisy until I moved it off the top
    of my power amp.  Three inches was enough to make the hum go away.
    
    

    You could make yourself some insulating bushings out of an old Clorox
    bottle and insulate the Matrix even though it's in the rack.
    
    	-Bill

>    filtering)?  Don't know.  But, my current setup is pretty quiet with
>    the Matrix sitting outside the rack.  For now, that's just fine.
    
Steve,

How about covering the mounting brackets with electrician's tape and mounting
it in the rack using nylon or teflon washers to keep the chassis from
touching the rack and mounting screws? If the chassis touches other rack
equipment, perhaps some cardboard or other material would help. It sounds
kind of kludgey, but might help get it back into the rack.

dave

    
    Have you tried using your wife's oven as a rack mount?
    
    dc

        After a (too brief) visit to Dave Orin's studio last night,
    I realized that I have caught the analog synth bug. I have few
    bucks to spend, so a Matrix 1000 seems just the thing. Are there
    any Oberheim dealers in the southern NH area? Anybody have a
    complete (or close) list of Oberheim dealers in New England??
    
    Thanks a bunch !
    
    Frank 

      I have an (I think)pertinent question about the Matrix 1000. I just
     tried one at Rogue Music for about 45 minutes (didn't get thru all
     the patches..darn it) and it sounds pretty good.
      The question is..if midi only supports 128? patch changes, how
     do you access patch 546 through midi?. Does it have a built in mapping
     function, for example the TX81Z, in which you can tell it "when
     you recieve program change 06, go to patch 37". I really can't
     see running over to this device in the middle of a set to switch
     patches...kind of defeats the whole purpose of midi, don't it?
                                     
    					inquisitively yours....
     rich

    You can change "banks" (the first digit of the 3-digit program number)
    by sending some kind of controller command and then sending a program
    change.  It's a little wierd (I don't remember the details, but
    they're in the manual), but it works.  If you want details, I (or
    some other M-1000 owner can look it up and report back).
    
    len (back from a week in Aruba...).
    

       Thanks for the info...as a matter of fact i've been waiting approx.
    one week for an answer.   Aruba,huh?
    						rich
    

    Wudja get me, Uncle len????
    
    Edd

    Aruba is 17 miles north of the north coast of Venezuela.  It's about
    12 degrees north of the equator.  The temperature is a constant
    82 degrees F, and the wind blows *constantly* from the northeast
    at 15 mph.  The net result is gorgeous weather.  The island gets
    about 20 inches of rain per year, so it's a little desert-like.
    
    Edd, I got you you a real nice sunburn.  Unfortunately it peeled
    off before I could get it to you.
    
    len.
    

      Weeell,  I too have taken the Oberheim plunge! And how refreshing
    it is! I haven't owned an analog synth since the Crumar days. The
    most striking thing about the M1000 is its tremendous variety of
    timbres. It is NOT just 1000 variations of punchy horns and lucious
    strings,,,timbres that analog synths seem to be famous for. It includes
    sounds like shrilling bells, bigger than life cathedral pipe organs,
    percussive piano type sounds, breathy flutes/french horns, the list
    goes on and on and on. I have found more uses for this synth than
    I had ever imagined. Of course it has tons of the 'classic' analog
    sounds that I've heard over the years too. Some great/funny effects
    also. 
          I would recommend an M1000 as a necessity (or close to it)
    to anyone who has an all digital set up. Yeah, a D50,SQ80,M1 can
    make some lush analog*ISH* sounds but wait till you add the real
    thing to your rig!!!
          
    
        simply a GREAT product.
    
    Frank

RE < Note 1697.38 by ACDC::RENE >

	I, too, have been OB'd!  I picked up a Matrix-6R last week and I've
been thrilled at the sound.  The Matrix6R, of course, is programmable, and it
is INCREDIBLE how much flexibility you get!  My mind is constantly whirring
with all the various ways I can modulate various parameters against one another.
At first, I thought I'd need to get replace my DX100 in order to get good 
control to the M6R (the DX100 is a non-touch-sensitive keyboard).  But after 
seeing how many other MIDI messages it emits (breath control, data entry, MIDI
volume, pedals, etc.), and seeing how flexible the Matrix is in responding to 
these controllers, I think I may hang on to the DX a bit longer!

	Gotta agree, too - the Matrix sound is more than just fat horns and lush
strings.  I have a patch that is a perfect 'sample' of a low voice saying 
'Yeah!'.  Incredible.

	Dan

    Is anyone aware of any patch editing software for the Matrix?  There
    were supposed to be a few "good" packages coming out "real soon now"
    ... that was a few months ago. 

    Anyway, I've decided to keep my OB-Xa for reasons very similar to
    those mentioned in the last 2 notes.

-b

    There is a patch editor by Dr. T's that runs on at least the Amiga.
    I will probably acquire it next time I visit my friends at EUWurlitzer.
    The Matrix-1000 is too neat not to program...
                   
    len.
    

    According to the Matrix-1000 manual some of the patches can be
    modulated by aftertouch. Has anyone found such a patch?
    
    On the patch sheet some of the names have an asterisk next to them.
    There isn't any explanation in the manual and I'm curious about
    what it means (if anything).
    
    When I send patch changes over midi my unit takes it sweet time
    responding (more noticeable when changing from a low patch number to a
    higher patch number). Is this a *feature* or do I have a rogue box?
    
    Dan

    My M-1000 patch list doesn't have any asterisks, so I don't know
    what they mean.  I have gone through all the patches (whew!) and
    determined which are mono.  Wouldn't have been too hard, had I thought
    of it, to determine which also respond to aftertouch.  I suppose
    you'll want to know which are mono now, huh?
    
    Are the asterisks "part of" the patch name?  I seem to recall some
    like that.  Maybe they're just part of some cute naming style?
    
    Don't know about patch change time, as I usually just select patches
    from the front panel (I'm always changing my mind about what patch
    to use for a sequence, or tweaking it without bothering to write
    it back to memory as edited... makes life more interesting). 
    
    len.
     

    The asterisks seem to be an afterthought, sort of tagging after
    the patch name. 
    
    Re: aftertouch
    
    I drive the M-1000 from an ESQ which is supposed to respond to channel
    or key pressure. The M-1000 book says to experiment with different
    modulators, aftertouch was mentioned. Since my other SGUs (S10,
    D110) don't transmit it, I'm trying to determine if the ESQ really will 
    respond correctly.     

    The ESQ doesn't xmit aftertouch.  Do you have a keyboard that does?

-b

    I must have dialed the dummy hotline...
    
    You're correct, the Esq does not transmit aftertouch. No wonder
    I'm having problems.... 
    
    Head	Wall
    '''''       ===
    ;o o; ====> | |     
    ' v '       | |
    '.-.'       | |
                ===
    

Well, I've gotten over my initial dislike of the M-1000 and I now really love
the sound.

Some of the presets do, indeed, respond to aftertouch, and unlike some boxes,
the aftertouch response is reasonably sensitive.  I'm sure that with an editor
you could make it *very* sensitive.  Some of them even respond to "reverse
direction mod wheel (lever)" from the Oberheim Xk controller.   'Tis nasty,
though, that out-of-the box the M-1000 doesn't respond to MIDI mono-mode
commands or portamento on/off/time controls.  I'm going to hack at it with the
OpCode editor this weekend--the manual looks like I can make it behave the way
I want to.

	Eirikur

To restart this note, ---

About two weeks ago, I bit the bullet and got a Matrix-1000 from Sam Ash. They 
really were $299. Anyway, I hooked up the WX7 and blew away and great things 
happened. Good box. 

However, Some of the patches (like some strings) need to have some of the 
parameters changed to make it a bit more tailored to the wind controller. I 
can do that with a TX81Z, but I have two things I need help with. First, does 
anyone know of a good book that explains how this thing really works and what 
the half a zillion parameters per patch really do? I can figure out how to 
tweak the patches without much problem once I have some basic definitions. 

Next, I need an editor/librarian for an IBM-PC/MPU-401 combination. I see them 
for Amiga and Mac. Any ideas?

Thanx.

Geoff

    SOmething that mayu not be totally obvious.  If you can borrow a
    Matrix-6, you can use its front panel controls to edit your patches, (I
    think), or at the very least, you can edit patches on the Matrix-6 and
    send them over to the M-1000.
    
    	Eirikur

    Re Matrix-1000 programming documentation - find someone with a Matrix-6
    and ask them to copy the manual for you.  Most of the PC-based
    programmers just tell you how to operate the programmer, which is not
    the same as programming the Matrix-1000.  Alternatively, I suppose you
    could write to Oberheim and request a Matrix-6 manual.
    
    len.
    

re::< Note 1697.50 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >
                           -< Documentation Scarce >-

>    Re Matrix-1000 programming documentation - find someone with a Matrix-6
>    and ask them to copy the manual for you.  Most of the PC-based
>    programmers just tell you how to operate the programmer, which is not
>    the same as programming the Matrix-1000.  Alternatively, I suppose you
>    could write to Oberheim and request a Matrix-6 manual.
    

I can't seem to find Oberheim and the Boston music store were a joke (as 
usual). Anyone got a Matrix-6 manual they would like to copy or send to me and 
I'll copy? 

BTW, Oberheim seems to have moved - my warranty card on this thing was 
returned by the USPS.

Geoff
   

What I heard (may be even in here somewhere) was that they went bankrupt
again and Gibson took them over...

Chad

I still need some help - see below. After a dozen phone calls and a bunch of 
letters, I received the wrong thing from Oberheim. I sent it back, but still 
no manual and I'm about $27.00 poorer thanks to Oberheim's bungling. Anyone 
got a Matrix 6 manual they can copy?????


Geoff

--------------------------------------------------------------------

< Note 1697.51 by CSG001::ROACH >
                 -< Still need some help - documentation rare >-

re::< Note 1697.50 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >
                           -< Documentation Scarce >-

>    Re Matrix-1000 programming documentation - find someone with a Matrix-6
>    and ask them to copy the manual for you.  Most of the PC-based
>    programmers just tell you how to operate the programmer, which is not
>    the same as programming the Matrix-1000.  Alternatively, I suppose you
>    could write to Oberheim and request a Matrix-6 manual.

Guess what? I should have put this note here sooner. The manual showed up 
today!!!!

Yeahhhhhhhhh!!!!

    Hey, let us know if this is a useful reference for programing the
    Matrix-1000.  Maybe I need a copy....  
    
    	Eirikur
    

Last night on a gig, I hooked up my WX7 to the Matrix 1000 and started to 
play. To my surprise, the notes would come on, but not shut off. After tracing 
the problem down to the Matrix 1000, I paniced, then came up with a work 
around. I forced everything to play the same note using Unison mode and turned 
down the volume when I wasn't playing (using a volume pedal). The problem then 
went away. I don't know if it was the work around or something else.

Any ideas? Is the M1000 hosed?

Geoff

    Anything sending a MIDI sustain?
    
    Steve

    Hello !
    
    Can anybody tell me the differents between the MATRIX-1000 and the
    MATRIX-6 (Price, Sounds, Mode (Multi,etc), etc.)
    
    Thank you in advance..
    
    Mac_Goetz_happy_M1_owner
    

    They're the same architecture, but differ in the following ways:
    
    	M-6R					M-1000
    
    200 programmable onboard sounds	200 programmable onboard sounds,
    					800 RAM sounds
    
    front panel programmable		SysEx programmable
    
    2 rack spaces			1 rack space
    
    
    The Matrix-6 is the keyboarded (5 octave) version of the Matrix-6R; the
    Matrix-1000 comes only in rack form.
    
    That's all I know off the top of my head.
    
    
    len.
    
    	

    
    ..and the price ?
    
    Mac_Goetz_with_another_question
    

                                  
    OK, the Oberheim M1000 has 1000 Sounds.
    
    Question : If i want to play Sound No. 576, how is the
               Program-change in CUBASE 2.0 ?
    
    In my opinion the max. of program-change is "127"...
    
    Mac_Goetz_think_about_to_buy_a_M1000
    

    The Matrix 1000 has 10 banks of 100 patches each. I believe that you
    must have the box set to bank #5, then program 076 will play the
    desired patch. When bank #5 is selected, you can only access patches
    500-599 (I think). A way around this is get your favorite 100 patches 
    and copy them into one of the first two banks. Banks 3-10 are ROM only.
    	I've had mine for a few years now and really love it. I just wish I
    had more time to play with it. In fact, I could probably use two more
    of them! 
    
            Good luck!
    
                  Frank (another analog lustie)

  It's been a while since I've done it, but I'm pretty sure you can do a
  "bank select" on the M1000.  You send it some controller # followed by the
  bank #.  That way you can get to ANY patch, not just the currently selected
  bank.  Although I seem to remember doing what -.1 suggested and moving
  the patches I used to the same vicinity.  That's because not all controllers/
  sequencers had the capability of doing the bank select.

-Tom

    There *is* a way to select banks remotely; it invoves sending the patch
    change request while some continuous controller is set above the
    halfway point.  If you urgently require details I can get them from my
    manual.  Yes, it is bizarre, but it does work.
    
    len.
    

    Len,
    
           I'd love to be able to send 'bank select' to my M1000. I've been
    calling the patches up by hand before hitting 'play' on the sequencer.
    Interesting possiblities when I call up the wrong patch! While not
    "urgently required", I still would appreciate some insight as to be
    able to remotely bank select.
    
              Thanks,
    
                     Frank

    OK, here's the details -
    
    You can select a bank via the following SysEx sequence (all values hex
    unless otherwise noted):
    
    	F0 10 06 0A <bank> F7   with <bank> = 00 to 09
    
    I don't know what happens for values of <bank> > 09.
    
    This also enables "bank lock", i.e., all subsequent program changes
    (even from the front panel) will be relative to the currently selected
    bank.  I don't recall what happens when you send a patch number outside
    the bank (i.e., program change numbers 100 - 127 decimal).
    
    To disable bank lock, send
    
    	F0 10 06 0C F7
    
    Note that with bank lock disabled, a patch change will necessarily
    select patches 0 - 127 decimal (i.e., bank 0, patches 00 - 99 decimal,
    and bank 1, patches 00 - 27 decimal).
    
    To select a patch via the usual program change message (e.g., from
    a keyboard), send the program change message while MIDI Controller
    #1 (modulation/vibrato) is more than halfway on.  The program change
    number will be interpreted as the bank number; you are responsible for
    figuring out how your synth represents program change numbers 0 - 9
    (e.g., A1 - B2, 11 - 22, 1 - 10, etc.).
    
    If you need vibrato for something else, you can get the same effect
    (the same way) by using controller #31.
    
    BTW, this is all in the Matrix-1000 manual.
    
    len.
        

    Thanks Len,
    
            I have misplaced my manual so this was a great help.
    
           Frank

    
    OK ! Now i am a proudly owner of the M1000 too ! :-)
    Great sounds ! 
    But now i am looking for two things :
    
    First : An EDITOR for the ATARI-ST !
    
    Second: Detailed described steps to do the programchange via CUBASE 2.0 ! 
            For example: - Patch 438 (M1000)
    			      |
    			      |
    			      ? (Things to do with CUBASE)
    		      	      |
    			      |
    			  - Patch 867 (M1000)
    
    
    Markus_now_with_very_good_analog_sounds