Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    
    Re-1
    
    Looks good ! However I'me not sure I understand the tone at the
    beginning bit. Bear in mind that I am a non-technician. How do I
    put a tone to help with calibration on to my submission, and how
    will it help you ?
    
                                                            
    					Paul.

    
    
    Calibration tones are generally used in 'professional' recording
    situations to allow the person who is transferring the songs to
    set his/her levels in advance. The catch is that the calibration
    tone reflects the level at which the tape was recorded at, so the
    theory goes that if the output of the source deck is set to the
    same level that the tape was recorded at, you should not have
    overloading/underloading problems in the transfer (specifically
    such bogeys as tape saturation, excessive hiss, and low level).
    
    Professional equipment usually has a tone generator on board which
    generates at least 1 tone (usually 1 KHz), and possibly more (400,
    1000, 8000, 10000, 12500, 15000, 16000 are all 'standards'). 
    
    You don't really need a calibrated tone generator to make a reference
    tone. If you have any kind of SGU you can calibrate your own tone
    (middle-b-natural please) and set your recording levels so that
    a steady tone registers at -3dB on your meters. This tells me to
    set up my deck at the same level, and providing that you make sure
    you don't saturate your tape after you have generated a tone, I
    can then assure that our levels match. I then leave the levels alone
    for the duration of your tape, which keeps your dynamic levels intact
    (You *do* have dynamic levels, right? ;^) )
    
    A tone level should be long enough to calibrate by. Two seconds
    is not enough. 30 seconds is too long. 10-15 seconds is ballpark.
    
    I hope this explains the use effectively.
    
    /pjh

    Thanks for volunteering, Paul.
    
    However, the lack of substantive reviews (5!) for C-V and the literally
    hundreds of resulting wrangling replies renders me somewhat uh,
    irritated with the conference members and not too inclined to submit
    right now.  You're all heartbroken, I can tell
    
    karl

    
    
    re: karl
    
      Hopefully we can get beyond this stuff again. Who knows, I might
    even submit something...
    
      /pjh

>    However, the lack of substantive reviews (5!) for C-V and the literally
>    hundreds of resulting wrangling replies renders me somewhat uh,
>    irritated with the conference members and not too inclined to submit
>    right now.  You're all heartbroken, I can tell

I'm sorry to hear that. I usually look forward to hearing your music on
every new COMMUSIC tape. Sorry I haven't taken the time to write up any
reviews, but be assured that I look forward to each tape. Don't let the
number of reviews posted be the indicator of interest. I think the number
of distributed tapes would be a better indicator (db, do you know the numbers
of copies sent out by you? for tape III, IV, V?)

/Mitch

    My god, what have I done.
    
    Can't we put all this nonsense behind us.  I admit it's nonsense,
    and I even take the blame for starting it.  What more can I do?
    
    If I had really thought that the whole thing would have died
    as the result of me mentioning the copyright nonsense, I'd 've
    probably suffered in silence.   I really enjoyed these tapes.
    That's why I did them.
    
    C'mon Karl, be a part of the solution!
    
    Would it make you feel better if I contributed a "substantive"
    review that ragged on your stuff?  ;-)
    
    re: .5
    
    I distributed about 70 copies (is PJH hyper-ventilating?) of each
    tape.  Commusic VI is the exception.   I don't know why, but only
    about 30 copies of Commusic VI have been distributed.
    
    Also note that I have loaned copies to various people (ahem, some of whom
    have not returned them) and god only knows how many copies of copies were
    made (I presume lots as I have encouraged people to copy a friends
    rather than order from me).
    
    	db

>    Commusic VI is the exception.   I don't know why, but only
>    about 30 copies of Commusic VI have been distributed.

That was tape IV, right? musta been cause I was on that one.  :-(

/Mitch

>    tape.  Commusic VI is the exception.   I don't know why, but only
>    about 30 copies of Commusic VI have been distributed.
                                  ^
                                  |

                             Gee, with all this mess about COMMUSIC, you
                             folks pulled a fast one and got VI out already! :-)

Chad
 

    
    uhh, didn't you mean V? Which one am I going to do?
    
    70 tapes, huh... that's enough to get copies done outside at 3.75
    apiece. Hmm....
    
    /pjh

>< Note 1631.6 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Yo!" >
>    C'mon Karl, be a part of the solution!

    .. and do what ?  I've certainly contributed to the tapes over the
    past two years.  My problem is that I feel irritated by the recent, 
    incredibly bad signal-to-noise ratio in this conference.. 
    
    The word 'uptight' comes to mind.  
    
>Would it make you feel better if I contributed a "substantive"
>review that ragged on your stuff?  ;-)

    Yes, I see the smiley face, Dave.  You and others seem to assume 
    that all I seek is 'favorable' reviews of MY STUFF.  Wrong on both 
    counts.  What I seek is more reviews, good OR bad, of everyone's material, 
    and less 'reviewing' of the few reviews that DO get posted !  Of
    course, in expressing my feelings now, I'm guilty of reviewing 
    the reviewing of the reviews.  Recursively yours.

    All that has happened is that despite the '30 or so copies' that 
    db DID distribute, only 5.75 people have said ANYTHING
    about the music.  And no new reviews in two weeks.  but who's
    counting..  I would say that potential reviewers might be intimidated
    to say what they feel about the music.  
    
    We can wrangle about this IN PERSON Monday, 8/22 at El Torito's
    in Framingham, Mass Pike @ Route 9, at or about 6 PM.  Thanks to
    Edd, len, and Ron, there's a special LERDS-BIM happening.  Complete
    with ersatz Mexican food.  I'll be there.  

    karl

>    All that has happened is that despite the '30 or so copies' that 
>    db DID distribute, only 5.75 people have said ANYTHING
>    about the music.  And no new reviews in two weeks.

Karl, please just keep in mind that there are still peaople who want to HEAR
your music, even if they don't get to review it.

>    We can wrangle about this IN PERSON Monday, 8/22 at El Torito's
>    in Framingham, Mass Pike @ Route 9, at or about 6 PM.  Thanks to
>    Edd, len, and Ron, there's a special LERDS-BIM happening.  Complete
>    with ersatz Mexican food.  I'll be there.  

Hmmm,  since I live about a stone throw away from there....

      uhh..  maybe I'll throw some stones.

/Mitch

    
>>    We can wrangle about this IN PERSON Monday, 8/22 at El Torito's
>>    in Framingham, Mass Pike @ Route 9, at or about 6 PM.  Thanks to
>>    Edd, len, and Ron, there's a special LERDS-BIM happening.  Complete
>>    with ersatz Mexican food.  I'll be there.  
 
    Rats! And here I am coming into town on a Tuesday night thinking
    I might just catch 'em in their usual haunt... 
    
    /pjh   

    Y'know, the thing is, the more we talk about it, the worse it gets.
    
    Saying things like "that's all I'm gonna say about this" in NOTES
    is, in my experience, a more reliable lie than "the check's in
    the mail".   In 3 years of moderating MUSIC I have *never* seen
    anyone live up to that "promise".
    
    So it is with some trepidation that I'll say that I'm going to
    self-impose a moratorium on this subject for myself and just regard
    all this as never happening.
    
    	db

    
    
    I have started receiving submissions.
    
    Apparently, some of you feel compelled to send your submissions
    as insured, registered packages. I can understand your mistrust
    of the US Snail system, however, I would like to tell you about
    the geography of this part of Vermont.
    
    My house is about 8 miles from Digital. The Colchester post office
    is about 6 miles in the OTHER DIRECTION. In order to receive registered
    material from Colchester, I must drive for 15 minutes in the wrong
    direction, (two-lane crowded roads into that part of Colchester),
    drive back past my house to the Interstate, then drive the 8 miles
    to work (12 minutes). This turns a 12 minute commute into a 42 MINUTE
    commute.
    
    I do not want to discourage you from sending submissions by registered
    mail. However, if you must, please send it to the FOLLOWING ADDRESS:
    
    Active Audio
    1908 Airport Pkwy
    South Burlington VT 05403
    Attn: Paul Harriman
    
    The reason is that the S. Burlington post office is on the way to
    work and I don't have to drive all over creation to get something
    during the Post Office business hours, which is usually when I am
    at work.
    
    I hope this doesn't confuse people too much. The reason I have two
    addresses is simply because my studio isn't at the same place my
    house is, and we have our own mailbox there.
    
    Thanks....
    
    /pjh

================================================================================
PAULJ::HARRIMAN "THINK before you VOTE.It's the LAW" 24 lines   3-NOV-1988 14:46
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, Brad, where can we move this off to? New note?
    
    To put things in perspective:
    
    I am not an editor. I don't intend to edit ANYONE's submissions
    except my own. You are responsible for editing your submissions,
    or *not* editing them, as the case has been occasionally. But that's
    the fun part. Come on, we're all working people.
    
    The only condition/standard I impose is purely mechanical in nature
    and a source of courtesy for the poor slob (aka myself) who agreed
    to compile these. That is, keep it under 12 minutes (hear that
    Janzen?), and give me a reference tone to set my levels by, so that
    rotten overloaded dogfart-like-noises don't get blamed on my nicely
    calibrated decks. Your musical content is your business, and without
    ratholing ourselves (this has been "discusted" recently) I feel
    that sharing our music has lots of value, reviews and retorts
    notwithstanding. 
    
    Okay, I've said my piece. You folks who wish to submit tapes, please
    do so when you feel ready. This hasn't been much work so far.
    
    /pjh

             <<< NOVA::$111$DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -<   **  Computer Music  **   >-
================================================================================
Note 10.15           COMMUSIC Tapes - Ordering & Submitting             15 of 15
DRUMS::FEHSKENS                                      10 lines   3-NOV-1988 17:58
                               -< Just Say No? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Does this mean I can submit my copyright threatening "Beach Boys
    sing doo whop as produced by Phil Spector" covers?  If not, I'll
    have to submit my latest constructivist exercise, you know, "Night
    Shift at the Synth Factory".  You have been warned.
    
    And Dave, that one piece you rejected was actually three pieces
    by three individuals.                             
    
    len.
    

    Len,
    
    I know that it was not your intention to criticze, I feel
    your mention of it sorta obligates me to explain it, or appear
    inconsistent.
    
    > And Dave, that one piece you rejected was actually three pieces
    > by three individuals.
    
    But I didn't know that at the time, did I?
    
    	For the benefit of those who have no idea what Len was referring	
    	to, the piece(s) I rejected was(were) submitted anonymously and
    	presented as ONE 1/2 hour piece in 3 parts.
    
    And when I was informed of that, I DID put one of them on the tape.
    
    And I was ready to put the other two on the tape as well if that
    was the wish of the submittors.  But since the other two works were
    not offered as serious efforts, I talked them out of it.  And note
    that at least one of them has since criticized another Commusic
    submittor for not offering his serious efforts.
    
    	db

    Yo Dave, my cat put her heart and soul into that piece....
    
    :^)
    
    Edd

    
    re: copyrights etc.
    
       Considering the limited distribution of this tape, I think that
    ASCAP has better things to do than chase after me for royalties.
    In the unlikely event that I get a call from some goon threatening
    to break my fingers if I continue to infringe on someone's copyrights,
    I'll post the episode here. 
    
       Besides, royalties are about 5� a song/copy generally. 
    
    /pjh

> < Note 1631.17 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >
>     Does this mean I can submit my copyright threatening "Beach Boys
>     sing doo whop as produced by Phil Spector" covers?  If not, I'll
>     have to submit my latest constructivist exercise, you know, "Night
>     Shift at the Synth Factory".  You have been warned.

I'd rather hear "Night Shift at the Synth Factory", please.    /Mitch

    > Yo Dave, my cat put her heart and soul into that piece....
    
    I thought I heard a cat in there somewhere.
    
    I'm gonna report you to the ASPCA, and Len to ASCAP.
    
    	db

    As long as we're tweaking one another about trivial details, that
    "half hour" piece was actually 23 minutes long.  My contribution
    to it, the one that actually made it to the tape (Get Sirius Noah,
    COMMUSIC IV or so) was about 3 minutes long.  Merlin did not
    contribute, except to meow soulfully for attention every now and
    then.                                         
    
    So now I have to actually commit "Night Shift ..." to tape?  It's
    so much more elegant as a concept materialized solely as sequencer
    data.
    
    Uhm, "Phil-Spectorized Beach Boys-like covers of 50s doowhop" is
    ordinary, not unusual material?  I wonder what you listen to.  And
    doncha wanna hear me sing?
      
    len.
    

> < Note 1631.23 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >
>     Uhm, "Phil-Spectorized Beach Boys-like covers of 50s doowhop" is
>     ordinary, not unusual material?

Well, "Beach Boys covers of 50s doowhop" sounds pretty ordinary,
but, if "Phil-Spectorized" puts it out of the ordinary, then I'm all for it.
hmmm.  I've never heard any Phil Spector.  Is it out of the ordinary?
Maybe I'll pick something up by him.

>  And doncha wanna hear me sing?

hmmm.   Is it out of the ordinary?

/Mitch

    
    Re: Phil baby
    
    Mitch either you're showing your age or Len is showing his  8^)
     8^)  8^)
    
    Len, *I* would liketa hear it.  Particularly if it comes out better
    than Roy Wood's attempts....
    
    

    Phil Spector was a producer famous for his "wall-of-sound" production
    values (well, he was also a member of the Teddy Bears, who did the
    '50s (maybe early '60s?) classic "To Know Him is to Love Him". 
    There is a record of "Phil Spector's Greatest Hits", which features
    greatest hits by the groups he produced - The Crystals, The Ronettes
    (he eventually married Ronnie of the Ronettes), The Righteous Brothers,
    et al..
    
    My singing is mediocre, which makes it by definition ordinary. 
    Except that most people with mediocre voices aren't allowed to sing,
    so it's out of the ordinary in that regard.  I try to hide the
    mediocrity of my singing by doing multipart vocal arrangements (a
    la the Beach Boys).  It doesn't help.
    
    I guess I'll stick to constructivist oddities.
    
    len.
    

    On commusic VII, I'll sing a blues accompanying myself on guitar,
    as I did last saturday live at mobius in boston.
    Tom

    I've got a nice polka sequence I did in the style of Bruce Springsteen
    and Madonna. Would anyone like to hear it? (I do both vocal parts!)
    
    Edd

    Well Len, I'd rather hear your "killer" version of "Feelings"
    by Morris Albert.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    While I would NOT term my former anonymous contribution to the infamous
    23-minute "Three Piece Suite" a 'throwaway', I recall begging the
    author of the 'vest' section, to shorten mine, apparently the 'pants'
    section.. too tight in the crotch or long in the inseam..  It was
    the length of the piece that red-flagged it.  It was certainly as
    'serious' and valid as any other 20th-century surf music.
    
karl    

    
    	Ah, but does he know how Phil did the wall of sound? Did
    you line up all your SGU's, each individually miked, along with
    the ceiling mike to catch all the bad noise flying off the ceiling?
    Gotta hand it to him - he captured all the ambience of the second
    balcony at the Boston Garden (where'd the bass go?). It's a great
    technique when you wish to  "hide" boo-boo's, can't sing well (maybe
    we all should do it), or generally wish to generate that mush sound.
    I'd like to hear it! Has it got the tamborine just off the beat
    too?
    
    	But I wonder - Phil screwed up the Let It Be album - I think
    because he tried to produce the sound as an after affect, it wasn't
    recorded the right way. Can Len actually do it with his toys? OR,
    was it a clandestine effort of BIMMERS who stayed at the bar too
    late?  Save the Night-shift for VII - old rotting minds want to
    know....
    
    					bs

    Hey, you bet I can outdo Phil's sound.  I mean, like, I've got *THREE*
    SRV-2000s to throw at this problem, uh, opportunity.  Just set the
    early reflections density to maximum, the decay time to 20 seconds
    (I could go all the way to 99, but that'd be overdoing it, doncha
    think?), set the EQ to remove all the top end...  I've got 5 drum
    machines to layer my snare drums with, gosh, the possibilities are
    well nigh unto endlessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
    
    len.
    

    < Note 1631.33 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >
           -< Wanna Hear my 14 feet in diameter, 5 feet deep snare? >-


    .. they mean Phil SPECTOR, not Phil Collins..

    
    .-33 Good god, i can't wait!! This should bring back all those great
    memories from the late 50's when there were still soda fountains,
    hood's (with leather jackets and motorcyles) and my father's
    haircuts( i can still hear harold warner saying, "it's easy wally,
    you just take the electric clipper and shave away!").
    
    	So then it's offcial eh? Len does the Beach Boys in the bathroom!
    (wonder if brian wrote "in my room" there..)! Ok, this is sliding
    down fast, i'll quit
    
    
    					bs

    re: calibration techniques
    
    I tried putting a tone down last night on my semi-el-cheapo pioneer
    deck. I put it down at roughly +3db (damn these led-bar meters) in
    record and it played back at roughly -3db, is this what you're looking
    for in a test tone?
    
    dbii 

    
    Gee, Dave, sounds like you need a cleaning, biasing and recalibration
    too ;^)
    
    Well, yes, it is sort of what I want.
    
    The point of a "calibration tone" is to tell me, in advance, what
    level your recording is going to play back at. This way, I can make
    an assumption about your dynamics (rash assumption: your material
    *has* dynamics...sorry, couldn't resist). 
    
    In theory, it works like this: You set your levels, and record a
    tone onto your tape. The tone can be at any level actually, as long
    as I know what that level is supposed to be. 0VU is a standard for
    some, although those whose meters understand dBs instead go for
    -3, 0, or +3.  Like I said, it doesn't really matter as long as
    I know what the actual level setting is supposed to be.
    
    When I get the tape, I set my deck to the level indicated by the
    test tone. This way, as long as YOU didn't overload the source tape,
    I don't overload the COMMUSIC master. 
    
    There are two benefits. One, I don't have to listen to the tune
    all the way through (I hear them enough, believe me) and monitor
    the meters for the high spot and assume that that's not just a peak.
    As a corollary, we should end up with source/copies that are at
    the same level, which optimizes us as far as hiss/overload is
    concerned, i.e., if I record too low then there will be more noise,
    if I record too high then there will be distortion.
    
    I you are recording at a certain level and your deck doesn't play
    back at the same level, demagnetize your heads first, clean them
    second, and try it again. If it still persists, check your bias
    for the tape type (I, II, IV  is a good start, it might be more
    complex, like having it adjusted by someone who knows how to bias
    your deck (which might be you for all I know)... we are currently
    talking about this somewhere else in a current topic, aren't we?
    
    Anyway, to make a short story long, your tone should match playback
    and record anyway, and as far as I'm concerned, I record at the
    level that the tone indicates.
    
    It's supposed to help make a better tape. To date, I have not gotten
    many test tones. Not a bitch, just a statement.
    
    /pjh

    Hmm every deck I've ever owned (all three) had this descrepancy in
    the input/vs output level....since this deck is really brand new...I
    assume (bad word there) that it should be fairly well biased...not
    being real super technical analog wise anyway I'm not certain how
    to proceed with calibration of the bias....but I'll see if I can
    find the other note...
    
    the real bottom line is the deck allows me to 'saturate' the hell
    out of it on record and it plays back pretty clean....I seem to
    be able to record all the way up to +6db on the stupid bar meter
    and it plays back at about 0 to +3 with little or no discernable
    distortion...(assuming that I can tell the difference with these
    tired rock'd out ears...)
    
    dbii finishing up for CMVI

    < Note 1631.38 by DNEAST::BOTTOM_DAVID "Everyday I got the blues" >
>    Hmm every deck I've ever owned (all three) had this descrepancy in
>    the input/vs output level....since this deck is really brand new...I
>    assume (bad word there) that it should be fairly well biased...not

    "Well biased" to WHAT ???  Any recorder is biased to a specific
    tape.  And having the output level match the input level (easier
    to adjust on three-head dex) is part of the bias set procedure.
    
    karl

    there is no bias adjustment that I know of on this deck (or any
    of the others other than 1 casette deck had a dolby
    adjustment/clibration proceedure and my 3340 has switches). The
    deck automatically switches between high and normal bias based on
    the switch that interacts with the cassette. If there is an adjustment
    the owner's manual does not mention it, it is internal to the tape
    deck (ie: I have to take it apart and tweak something...) Since
    I use maxell udxl-II's all the time it would actually be nice to
    do this adjustment if it will improve the performance of the deck,
    however, I do not have any idea what to tweak or how to proceed....
    
    
    3 db down...

    re DB�'s cassette deck.. very few dex have the bias adjustment pots
    available without removing the cover.  
    
    karl

    is there any way to be sure what pot is the right one?
    
    curiouser and curiouser....also I need a pointer to the note that
    explained the proceeedure...
    
    thanks
    
    calibrating db's

    
    The way to be sure is to get the service manual for your deck  8^)
    
    

(Grrrr. This menu-driven notes stuff is for the birds.)

	Okay, folks, we just passed 60 minutes of material. I need 18
	more minutes of stuff and then we can release this sequel.

	So if anyone who hasn't already hit their 12-minute limit
	wants to submit something (or if someone who hasn't submitted wants
	to get on the tape), I have some space on side B.

	FYI, I'm mastering to VHS HiFi. Those few who have sent me 60 minute
	tapes, please contact me on what you want to do with them.

	Any questions, send mail or reply. 

	/pjh

	Well as of yesterday afternoon we're down from 18 minutes to about
	six minutes left on side B.

	I am very impressed with the quality of the submissions. So much, in
	fact, that I am willing to go the extra bit to make the tape itself
	more "professional".

	Seeing as I have lots of 'white labels' for cassettes, I'll spring for
	the labels for the cassettes. I'm planning on using that new DOCUMENT
	format for the actual cassette liner (inside). 

	I would like suggestions for the cover art. We are capable of color
	reproduction. Anyone have any clip art that is pertinent to computer
	music and would (a) not violate someone's graphic copyright, and (b)
	is either UIS, sixel, PostScript or DDIF format? If so, send it along
	or provide a pointer, please?

	This has not been really bad, yet. Of course, I haven't made 70 copies
	yet, either. 

	I am willing to ship a "first generation master" to someone in Europe
	if they are willing to take care of the distribution there. Likewise
	if someone in the GIA area is listening, or wishes to assist. 

	/pjh

    I'll only say, don't get fancy at the cost of either 1) raising your
    cost and/or our price for the tapes, or 2) delaying the tape's release.
    
    I'm but one voice, but I still say that the primary purpose is just
    to hear what other folks are doing.  It should be regarded almost as
    if we were just exchanging tapes and ignoring the required formalities
    of a Commusic release.
    
    	db

    I agree in principle that these are casual tapes, we cold leave
    out the cases and just mail little reels of cassette tape loose.
    But on the other hand, we are growing up and can do a little bit
    if it's easy quick and cheap.
    has anyone ever sent a commucus tape to national public radio morning
    edition with the publicity tag that it's computer engineers trading
    tapes of their computer music ?
    Tom

    Hey, *that's* and idea!  Might as well make the whole series available
    to 'em as far as I'm concerned.  Let 'em pick and choose ...  No
    objections from me ... :-)
    
    Steve

	re: .-2, .-1

	Funny thing, a writer friend of mine was sitting in my living room
	while I was sorting out the pile-o-tapes from all over the planet,
	when I mentioned that it was a bunch of "people like me" trading
	over a computer network (I stretched it and said "BBS") she started
	making noises about wanting to do a story on it. I dunno, it's
	not my call. You guys wanna be in the paper?

	re: db

	well, it's not like it's a lot of work. The labels would be nice,
	I make them all the time. The color, well, of course it's not
	necessary, but why the heck not? If you can do it, why not? 

	Not to get over-formalized or anything but I figured hey, it's a 
	cassette album.

	whatever. Haven't got any artwork yet, we'll figure something out.

	If you'd like I'll just send yours without labels ;^)

	/pjh

    re: -.1
    
    I vote for anything, so long as it's fun, cheap and moral.  :-)
    
    Steve

    "...you guys wanna be in the paper?"
    
    Sure! And we can use my picture 'cuz I'm the prettiest!!
    
    Actually, I recently wrote an article for submission to one of the
    cat lovers magazines regarding some of the goings-on in the FELINE
    notes-file. It had to go through corporate P.R. for the proper
    blessings firstly. (Although most of their concerns were over the
    proper use of DEC vs. Digital Equipment Corporation, how to properly
    spell All-In-1, etc.)
    
    You may want to check...
    
    Edd
    

	... thanks Edd, I had a feeling the Corporation would care how we
	talked about internal goings-on. Who did you talk to, by the way?
	just curious

    
    
    RE The European Tapes
    
    I have acted as mail stop for the Euro distribution channel in the
    past and would be willing to do so again. I've not had any complaints
    about the service so-far.
    
    			Paul.

    Elizabeth Slattery in P.R. is a good place to start. There was actually
    very little hassle; my story cleared with only minor modifications.
    
    She's at 264-1551.
    
    Edd

    this tape is not an internal goings-on, if we don't mention the
    company.
    Tom

    I dunno, I sorta feel like it vfiolates the general principle of
    "low profile" that I feel non-work related notesfile should maintain.
    
    I envision some stockholder reading it and being outraged that in
    times like this, that DEC is allowing company resources to be used
    to discuss cats and MIDI.
    
    But I recognize my tendency to worry too much about these kinds of
    things, so I'll leave it at that.
    
    	db

   re: last couple

	thanks Edd. Can't hurt to check at least.

	Since I haven't gotten back to her, it's kind of a moot point, but
	it is a good story. You're right Tom, we don't necessarily have to
	mention the company, but then again... db, you worry too much.

    I'm a stockholder and I'm not outraged... ;^)
    
    Dave

	Since my last status update, I have received 3 more submissions.

	These total up to about 14 minutes. There is space for one four
	minute submission, or we can live with four minutes of dead air
	at the end of the tape.

	I'll hold for another week for someone to claim the last four minutes.

	/pjh

	No sooner did I post the last reply before I got another promise
	of a submission which will fit into the four-minute slot.

	Consider VI as being "compiled".

	I still need a week to get the rest of the production together,
	but watch this space for ordering/availability/leadtime info.

	To all submittors: If I haven't gotten liner notes from you,
	please try to get them together, as I want to get them included
	in the liner, among other things. I need copyright info if I haven't
	gotten it also. 

	/pjh

	Okay, here is the current state of affairs:

	I have received essentially 90 minutes of material.
	
	I have finished the first master onto VHS HiFi. (Actually this
	got done last week but I'm getting ready for a new band's debut
	this Wednesday and had to shelve everything else)...

	Before I blow away all those originals, should I make another
	master (onto some optimal medium) for the European distribution,
	or another source in Mass?

	Also, I must have all liner notes from everybody by the end of next
	week so I can finish the labels. If you could send the name and year
	of birth for your submissions I'd really appreciate it, as everything
	is spread between paper and various computers, and I am having a hard
	time coping with all the little pieces of paper.

	Other than that, pending resolution of these little issues, we are
	ready to start cutting copies of this production. I would really like 
	to hear back from anyone interested in helping with the distribution,
	i.e. Europe or Mass. That determines how many "first generation" masters
	get made. Otherwise, I'll just copy the HiFi master to tape and you'll
	get a copy that way.

	/pjh

	

    
    As I think I have already said. I will handle Euro distribution. I
    can handle a VHS-HIFI master if that is possible failing that a
    good chrome tape will do. What do you want from us to pop the process
    along ?
    
    					Paul.

    Paul are you congizant that the US uses the NTSC standard and that
    the UK uses the PAL standard, consequently our VHS tape are
    incompatable, and the conversion hardware is very expensive?
    
    just checking
    
    dbii

    
    re: .-2, .-1
    
    	Fortunately, I just scored a Tascam 32 which should make the
    mastering process much easier. Paul, can you handle 7" reels? If not,
    I'll just master on down to a chrome or metal cassette (you choose). I may
    very well remaster (or at least make another copy of everything to) the
    32, since it is much more robust and has similar specs to the HiFi.
    
    	Wish I had the 32 when this all started...
    
    /pjh

    
    re -2 ,-1.
    
    Dave  you are right (I think) American VHS tapes do not work over
    here. Is that true of the HIFI signal as well as the VIDEO? Anyone
    know ?. I can handle 7 inch reels recorded at 7.5 ips I have DBX
    but am not sure whether it's DBX1 or DBXII so no noise reduction
    might be safest. Is the 32 halftrack my machine isn't. Does it matter?
    
    
    					Paul.
    

A lot of the more expensive VCRs will take both NTSC (or whatever it is)
an PAL signals.  Check your manuals, maybe you can do it still that way.

Chad

    I have never seen a consumer VCR that took multiple formats. We
    had to buy a multi-format machine here at ASO to use training videos
    made in Ireland. The only machine sold in the US that took both
    NTSC and PAL formats that we could find was made by panasonic, does
    not record NTSC and costs nearly $2K and the audio path is analog
    lo-fi. I'm uncertain of the situation in the UK.
    
    PAL tapes run at a slower speed than NTSC tapes do, based on that
    assumption and some experimentation here NO you cannot use the hi-fi
    portion of the tape. This is unfortunate but true.
    
    dbii
    
    ps: I was told when visiting Ireland that NTSC stood for "never the
    same color" :-)

    That's right, the official meaning of NTSC is Never The Same Color,
    but as a joke some people call it, "National Television Standards
    Committee."  Honestly, some people have no respect.
    Tom
    

	Re: Mr. Kent.


	The Tascam 32 is a half-track; it can make 7.5 ips tapes. It will work
	with a quarter-track machine, just don't flip the tape over, unless
	you like hearing Mitch Norcross, Mr. MSL Test and others backwards.

	The choices are therefore:

	Cassette (Metal, Chrome, (dbx,dolby?) ?)
	Reel - 7", 7.5 ips, no noise reduction.

	I need to get this done, I am planning to do it this weekend. The
	covers are almost done, I just wanted to get the people's names
	onto it. The clip art is integrated onto it, you'll probably like
	it, if you don't, too bad. Assuming that I finish the assorted masters
	and get them numbered, I will commence production of copies starting
	sometime next week.

	There will be four masters in all, and I apologize for the delay in
	production (and subsequent delivery of people's tapes), but it's
	a matter of quality and I think we would like as high a quality as
	we can get.

	I will keep two masters, one being the VHS master, one being a reel
	master.

	db will get one master copy for ZK area distribution. Paul Kent
	will get one master for European distribution. I will look to
	you two to discuss what you need with me outside of this conference
	so that we can post a coherent order info reply by next week.

	Suggestions are of course welcome.

	/pjh

    Do I understand the we'll then be adding a generation of copying
    in order to distribute the tapes? In other words, are the masters
    that db etc. getting a real master or a copy of the real master
    or what? (did I say that right?)
    
    dbii

	re: dbii

	no that is *not* the case. I have held off making copies over the
	originals I received in order to make some more "1st generation"
	masters. However, there will only be four of these "1st generation"
	masters made because it is a royal pain in the arse to keep the
	27 cassettes in order, set the levels for each song, filter out the
	test tones, etc.

	This way I save a generation on the distribution copies.

	Should affect our overall quality, for the better, no?

	/pjh

    Great, for a minuite I was worried but I sorta figured you wouldn't 
    do that...
    
    waiting for the release date
    
    dbii

    -- shouldn't that be "for a minuette I was worried"?
    
    Richard.

    So, like, what's the story ?  Though not a contributor, I'd love
    to hear the tape and watch the review wars.
    
    This conference be toooooo quiet.
    
    Where's the crackpots of yesteryear ?
    
    karl

    I've been busy...
    
    Edd

    
    Yeah, I'm waiting for VI to come out because I am actually going
    to contribute to VII if it occurs within this century.  
    
    8^)  8^)  8^)

    I'm too busy also...
    
    (Trying to meet the early entry deadline for Billboard's song contest!)
    
    Is anybody else out there persuing this???

	Argh. Well that's what I get for committing to make 4 masters...

	Everytime I think I'm caught up, a bunch of other stuff gets in the way.

	Masters were to be finished this weekend, at which point I make
	the 12 or so contributors' copies, and send the two masters that
	are going elsewhere (i.e. Europe and ZK). 

	I have two completed masters. I just got the reel tapes for the
	next two sets. (db, expect your master to go off this week).
	I got the label info a couple of weeks ago but I also went away
	to NRO and NIO for a couple of days each week, etc. etc.

	Plus Easter just bit the last weekend. 

	I know, no excuses. It's done, it sounds great, it's behind schedule,
	but if you'd all like I can distribute second generation masters
	starting tonight... I thought I'd try getting that done before
	distribution.

	I'll put in the ordering info, since we're that close. db, could
	you send me (vaxmail) your requirements? likewise, Paul Kent.

	For those who wish to pre-order, I'd appreciate it, since it gives
	me something to plan (like how many tapes to front* *ah, buy).

	A thousand apologies for the delays. 

	/pjh	

Is someone taking care of obtaining, making, distributing copies in the
Marlboro area?

dave

	Currently, no. 

	The current "master list" consists of:

	Paul Harriman (me) - I'll keep the VHS master and a reel master.
			     I will handle distribution to non-NH/MA and
				to the contributors.
	Paul Kent (Europe)
	Dave Blickstein - greater southern NH area

	Greater Maynard area would be helpful, although it's getting tedious
	making masters of everybody's variously-calibrated-and-wound tapes.

	/pjh

    Dave,
    
    What I'm planning to do (as I always do for each new Commusic tape)
    is to show up at a LERDS-BIM and distribute copies there.  I'll
    be announcing when I will do that here in the notesfile.
    
    I will also be distributing them out of my office for folks who
    might have occasion to be at the Spit Brook Road facility in
    Nashua.
    
    I'm also willing to fill orders by mail exactly as I have before.
    
    	db

to dave orin--

There is one in the "hub" 


imagine a <FF> here

in ZKO   :-)

CHad

re .-1

Chad,

Everyone knows that Marlboro is the "hub" of the universe"! 8^))

re .-2

db,

If it would be helpful, perhaps we could ease the burden of copying for
you by splitting up the copying by plants/areas. There are:

Hudson
Marlboro
Maynard
Northboro
Westboro
Shrewsbury

other?

If we could get one or two people from each area to make copies, it sure would
help. I would volunteer to make 10 copies for the Hudson/Marlboro area
(the "hub"). There must be 20 or 30 plants in this area alone.

dave

    Dave,
    
    How do you propose that I circulate the master to the various "hubs"?
    
    An alternative is to send a "hub" representative to the LERDS-BIM
    were he can pick up the copies for his hub.
    
    That would probably delay the LERDS-BIM however as I would have to
    have more copies ready.
    
    	db

    where is lerds bim? no one was there last time.
    tom

    It was in Detroit, at the Metropolitan Airport.  Nobody else was
    there but me.
    
    len.
    

    No, no... it was at my house and nobody showed up.
    
    Or was it in Mexico?
    
    It's tonight.
    
    Edd

    Hell, I thought it was at the top of the British Telecom tower.
    
    Richard.

    you know the world's in a sorry state when I'm the only one  that
    shows up at a lerds-bim.
    Tom

    
    Paul,
    
    I'll volunteer to do copies and distribution for the Maynard area.
    (I'm at MLO5). I have two decks that run at 3 3/4 IPS, so it only
    takes me half as long to make the copies. 
    
    
    Mike D

>    How do you propose that I circulate the master to the various "hubs"?
    
I assumed that I would show up at LERDS-BIM, get a copy, transfer it to RDAT,
and then make copies from the RDAT. I could take your master, transfer it to
RDAT, then make "masters" for the various hub duplicator volunteers. Or Paul
could send me a "master" and etc.  Just a thought...

dave

	re: dave

	what a thought. Cloning masters via R-DAT.

	And I was going to mail you all the DOCUMENT source for the cassette
	labels, too...!

	I should have at least one two-reel set for a Tascam 32 done this
	weekend. Which one shall I send it to? 

	So far, my test copies from VHS have the least background hiss. The
	cassette master gives the most (dolby B, too) (out of two choices,
	though ;^) ) 

	We'll continue this Monday, I should be sending things by then. 
	I think I'm coming down to Marlboro country again within a couple
	of weeks. Maybe I can find the infamous LERD-BIM for meself..

	/pjh

    I'll make copies for anyone in the Augusta area :-)
    
    dbii

< Note 1631.92 by TALK::HARRIMAN "Beep Bop Diddlyup" >

Paul,

It's a little bit tough to coordinate this whole thing. If you send me
the master for Tascam 32 I'll transfer it to RDAT and then pass the master
on to db. From there, I can clone more masters from the RDAT. How does
that sound?

dave

    
    Dave,
    
    Why would you go from Tascam 32-to-RDAT-to-cassette instead of Tascam
    32-to-cassette?
    
    I don't see any advantage to RDAT in this application.
    
    If there's going to be several cassette masters, I would suggest that Paul
    make them.  I can't imagine on improving on that.  That way, Paul
    doesn't have to send you a Tascam 32 which would be much more expensive
    and would subject the Tascam master to getting lost or damaged in the mail.
    
    	db

	Hmm, maybe this is a can-o-worms.

	How about I make up the following:

	1 set 7.5"ips Tascam reels (for Paul Kent)
	1 set cassette, dolby B (done, for db)
	1 set cassette, no dolby (done, who wants it?)
	1 set 7.5"ips Tascam reels (for me)
	1 VHS master (done).

	For those who did not contribute, I am going to start making copies
	in my "spare time" (whatever that means, I have no 'spare time' now
	but the dex are free when I'm editing on the sequencers, etc).

	What I can do is this: Dave O, next time I'm down (a couple of
	weeks, very likely) I'll stop by with my copy of the tape masters,
	we can run them to R-DAT so you'll get a reasonable quality "master".
	By that time, db will have his, so he can make the copies for those
	in Greater Nashua. I will take care of the Vermont/Maine copies that
	have been preordered. I also have to send Paul Kent his masters, this
	will most likely be in two weeks. 

	So worst case, delivery for Europe starts in about three/four weeks,
	since it'll take a week to get the tapes there, and Paul has to run
	copies once he gets them. Northern NE gets deliveries starting this
	week, provided I have orders for them.

	The only losers to this are the contributors, who unfortunately have
	to wait for all the masters to get completed. But if I can hold down
	the incredibly time-consuming task of making a master (real-time, it
	takes about 2.25 hours and much more attention since I have to stop
	and recalibrate everything for each new artist). That's why I would
	like to just share the reel master. It'll save me some time.

	The "art" is done, too. I opted for the Document cassette format, maybe
	next time we can get some decent clip art onto it. Too much work,
	too little spare time to hack.

	This also gets the existing masters into productive work (i.e.
	making copies) sooner than later. Hopefully, db and Dave O can
	agree on who makes what copies.

	The upside to this is that (a) our quality will be excellent for
	all copies this way, (b) when distribution finally gets going, it'll
	get most everybody within days of the receipt of the masters, and (c)
	nobody gets overloaded with too many copies to make (I've already
	memorized everything on the tape...now I know how db felt last couple
	of times).

	Am I making sense? 

	/pjh

< Note 1631.96 by TALK::HARRIMAN "Beep Bop Diddlyup" >
                    -< I agree, this is getting confusing >-

Sorry for the confusion. Paul, your plan sounds fine. The reason I suggested
RDAT was because I only have one high quality cassette deck. I planned to
copy the T32 onto RDAT and then pass along the T32 tape to db, back to
Paul, or whatever.
I could then make dbx, dolby-B, dolby-C, or no-dolby cassettes from the RDAT
without tying up the T32 original tape. I was trying to reduce the number of
time consuming masters that Paul had to make. The RDAT would give me a
"master" with virtually no loss from the T32 original. I could then make more
T32 "masters" or cassette masters from the RDAT. I would then distribute
these "masters" to other people in different areas who would be willing to
help make duplicates. Of course, the very best RDAT master would be made by
Paul from the submitted originals, but since we are several states apart, that
is not practical. Does this help clear it up?

dave

1. Loan me a T32 master for one hour.
2. I'll copy it to RDAT.
3. I'll give you back the T32 master.
4. I'll make either cassette or T32 "masters" from the RDAT
5. I'll distribute these "masters" to additional volunteer duplicators.

    I understand. 
    
    The key point was that making a copy to RDAT would allow you to
    give the tape to Paul faster.   I didn't know if that mattered or
    not.
    
    	db

ahh good, now we're getting there.

I now have everything but the reel masters done. The snag is that the repro
head sounds terrible and it needs a recalibration (brand new deck, you'd
think they'd take care of it).. 

My calculations say I need three 1250' tapes to make a commusic master. So I'd
rather not spend too much on reels. I have six. I'll lend one master to DaveO
next time I'm down, in any case, db can have a cassette master as soon as I put
it in the mail.

Fair enough?

/pjh

< Note 1631.99 by TALK::HARRIMAN "Beep Bop Diddlyup" >
                        -< another day, another groan >-

Sounds good, Paul. Let's plan to have some Chinese food when you come, if
possible.

dave

    You people are doing this far better than it has to be done.
    Make the cassette master and dub it.  Your approach costs too much,
    takes too long, and reaps little benefit for the way most people
    will hear it: on walkmans in a noisy office, or on a walkman jogging
    on a noisy street, or on a cheap hi-fi, or in their noisy cars.
    Tom

< Note 1631.101 by ANT::JANZEN "Linear Microwave Logic Test" >
                            -< GET ON WITH IT!!!! >-

>    You people are doing this far better than it has to be done.
>    Make the cassette master and dub it.  Your approach costs too much,
>    takes too long, and reaps little benefit for the way most people
>    will hear it: on walkmans in a noisy office, or on a walkman jogging
>    on a noisy street, or on a cheap hi-fi, or in their noisy cars.
>    Tom

I'm afraid I disagree completely, Tom. We want the copies to be good quality.
There is no additional cost incurred by having more people make the copies.
It just saves some of Paul's and db's time, and makes the tapes available to
more people in a shorter period of time. I think that the reviews of previous
tapes have indicated that people (especially contributors) _are_ concerned
with the sound quality. Personally, if I can't get a good quality copy, I don't
even want it. Paul and db have donated mucho precious time to this project, and
impatience is not a just reward for their efforts IMO.

dave

>Note 1631.102               Commusic VI grinds on.                    102 of 102
>SUBSYS::ORIN "Quid, me vexarius?"                    20 lines   5-APR-1989 13:04
>There is no additional cost incurred by having more people make the copies.
>It just saves some of Paul's and db's time, and makes the tapes available to
>dave

>    Note 1631.99                Commusic VI grinds on.                     99 of 102
>TALK::HARRIMAN "Beep Bop Diddlyup"                   16 lines   5-APR-1989 10:59
>                        -< another day, another groan >-
>I now have everything but the reel masters done. The snag is that the repro
>head sounds terrible and it needs a recalibration (brand new deck, you'd
>think they'd take care of it).. 
>
>My calculations say I need three 1250' tapes to make a commusic master. So I'd
>rather not spend too much on reels. I have six. I'll lend one master to DaveO
>next time I'm down, in any case, db can have a cassette master as soon as I put
>it in the mail.

>/pjh
 
    sounds expensive "I'd rather not spend too much on reels."
    Sounds slow "it needs a recalibration"
    
    A good engineering solutions meets the problem head-on, it doesn't
    exceed the problem.
    
    I want a bad copy.
    Tom       

    > I want a bad copy?
    > Tom
    
    OK, Tom, I'll be sure and make you one.  ;-)
    
    Note that NOTHING is being "held up".  You will be able to get a copy
    from me very shortly.
    
    FTR (For The Record), my general priorities have been time over
    quality.  Unlike DaveO, I would order it regardless of the quality
    because I want to hear people's musical output, not their engineering
    prowess.
    
    I have a very good quality dubbing deck.  I'm limited only by the
    fact that my master has to be a cassette (instead of RDAT, reel,
    video HIFI, etc.)  I can make very good copies.
    
    However, (and this is addressed to Tom) quality *IS* a perfectly
    valid requirement even if it's not one of mine.  I'm glad that Dave and
    Paul are willing to spend some effort on it.
    
    	db

	I'll let db make Tom's copy ;^) unless he wants a cheapo Shamrock reel
	at 1 7/8"/sec, in which case I'll make a copy of my test copy with no
	noise reduction onto third-generation. Step right up, folks, you want
	the hiss, you can have it today. You want I should put it in your mailer
	and send it? I'll even throw in the Shamrock reel, it's gotta be 20 
	years old.

	I stand by my reasons. I would rather not distribute less quality than
	the submissions deserve - they were overall pretty quiet when it all
	started, and I'm trying to keep the next generation's residual noise
	down.

	db, your tape goes into the mail tomorrow. Hopefully we can start
	major distributions next week, barring another technical difficulty.

	Thanks to most of you for your infinite patience. I know this has
	taken about a month longer than it should have, but, alas, occasionally
	work gets in the way of play. 

	/pjh

    Hey, I remember those shamrock tapes.  They used to break into little
    pieces, didn't they?  Am I wrong?  ANyway, I have a 1 7/8 deck that
    has extra added hiss features, so send it on. 
    ;-)  ~\~
    Tom

    I can well understand the reasons for making as good a job as possible,
    and I must say that I agree with db.
    
    HOWEVER, as somebody else commented on the recent spate of inertia
    in this notesfile, I must add:
    	Attaboy Tom (nothing like rocking the boat to liven things up)
	--------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Jim Burke 

	Re: Tom.

	Yup, those are the ones. I still got a couple on my shelf, splices
	and all.

	/pjh

    Yo Tom since all rock sucks, why even get a copy?
    
    dbii

    
    >Yo Tom since all rock sucks, why even get a copy?  
    
    I wondered that. I imagine it's 'cos if you chop the commusic tape
    into tiny pieces, then tape it randomly back together, then play it
    via a modem into your p.c. the results are a bit odd.
    
    Richard.

   'cause there's non-rock on the tape
    Tom

Any progress?  Is  Tom Foolery's the place to be tomorrow night to get a
     copy of COMMUSIC VI?

/Mitch

    I won't be at Tom Foolery's tomorow; I'll be listening to John Cage
    speak at Hahvahd.
    Tom

    But John Cage will be at TFs... all the best people are!
    
    Edd

    Nope.  Definitely not tommorrow night.
    
    	db

    >  I won't be at Tom Foolery's tomorow; I'll be listening to John Cage    
    >  speak at Hahvahd.                                                      
    >  Tom                                                                    
    
    You sure he plans to speak? Might just stand there for 5 minutes then
    go home.
    
    Richard.nd of note                                                               
    

>    < Note 1631.116 by MARVIN::MACHIN >
 >                                  -< ho ho >-
>
>    >  I won't be at Tom Foolery's tomorow; I'll be listening to John Cage    
>    >  speak at Hahvahd.                                                      
>    >  Tom                                                                    
    
>>    You sure he plans to speak? Might just stand there for 5 minutes then
>    go home.
    
 >   Richard.nd of note                                                               
  He SPOKE continuously for about 100 minutes, and gave me a mailing
    address and his autograph on one of his scores.  His speech was
    beautiful; it was a chance recombination of some of his previous
    writings and some other material I think.  He's very gracious, and
    78 years old this year.  I have to find a frame for the score now.
    I ran to LERDS BIM to show you the score but no one was there at
    7:20.
    Tom  

	to answer the question,

	I sent db his copy of the master. I still don't have the reel deck
	calibrated so that's delayed, but I can make copies for anyone who
	is not a contributor.

	Of course, I also have a case of blank tapes and I can substitute
	equivalent tapes for those contributors who simply can't wait.

	So the situation is thus:

	1) there are now three masters, of which two are cassettes and one
		is VHS. The reel master was trash because the deck barfed.

	2) I still owe db the cassette labels. Hopefully should be done
		today, I had the flu for the past 2.5 days.

	3) I will give contributors the option of waiting for me to finish
		mastering, OR I will substitute their tape for one of
		equal quality. 

	4) Europeans have to wait another week, sorry, but there is definitely
		a problem with the tascam deck that was going to make the master
		and I have a $1200 boat anchor sitting in my studio.

	5) There is no number 5.

	/pjh

	p.s. watch the commusic tape note for instructions on ordering.

    BTW- LERDS-BIM will NOT be held on Wednesday for at least the next
    3 weeks. Tuesday's appear to be an alternative, but wait for the
    official word from one of the grand_imperial_poobahs_and_all_knowing_
    cofounders (Ron, len, moi) for the definitive word...
    
    Edd

    Attention Spit Brook Commusic readers.
    
    I have received my Commusic VI master and have managed to build up
    a modest stock.
    
    I'd rather not have people descending on my office one-at-a-time
    as I'm trying to meet an important project deadline.  Instead, what
    I propose is that you send me mail.   I think there's enough tapes
    for everybody, but if not, its first-come first-served.
    
    My plan is to distribute the tapes in the cafeteria during the
    ice-cream break around 2:45.  That's a nice way to do it I think
    cause we can distribute them all at once and then we can have a 
    sorta mini-LERDS-BIM over ice cream.
    
    I should have enough stock for the rest by Monday and for the
    traditional LERDS-BIM distribution sometime very soon (hopefully
    this Tuesday or the one after).
    
    	db

	...and I am building up a modest stock of tapes also. I will be
	filling the orders I have over this next week. 

	Submittors, please reply on whether or not you want your original tapes
	or a substitute. I will mail substitutes (specify metal or chrome)
	starting Monday. Otherwise, you get to wait until after the European
	master gets finished (likely to be another two weeks at the rate I
	am going with the &^%$^%# deck). 

	/pjh

    There will be a special edition LERBS-BIM/COMMUSIC VI distribution
    party at Tom Foolery's in Westborough (intersection of routes 30
    and 9, on the westbound side of route 9, just off the route 30 west
    exit ramp).  6ish.
    
    len.
    

Re: LERDS-BIMscala

Monday, Tueday, or Wednesday? 

    
    
    I wuz gonna ask the same thing!
    
    rc
    
    

    Oh, my goodness, how could I have left that out?  Seemed obvious
    to me...
    
    TUESDAY, 25 April 1989.
            
    len.
    

    I will have about 20 copies.  In the past, that would have been more
    than enough.  This time, I'm not sure.
    
    Please understand that everyone may not end up with a copy, but if
    that's how it comes down, it's a good excuse for me to come down
    to LERDS-BIM some week soon afterwards.
    
    	db

Where's the liner notes?

    
    
    	How do I order mine?. I would also like as many back issues
    as possible. Price no object.(ahem)............Rich

>   <<< Note 1631.127 by DFLAT::DICKSON "twang and toot, not beep or thud" >>>
>                            -< Look before you buy >-
>
>Where's the liner notes?


See notes 11.7 for liner and 11.8 for cassette label

	I know we've been over this copyright stuff before, but seeing
	the liner notes for COMMUSIC VI made me aware that there are still
	aspects of this that (IMHO) have not been resolved correctly.  So,
	here goes.

				    DISCLAIMER

		I am not an attorney.  I am not an expert.  I *think* I
		understand this stuff, but I could be wrong.  What I know
		about copyrights comes from:  "This Business Of Music" by
		Sidney Shemel and and M. William Krasilovsky; a paper on
		the topic written by a copyright lawyer by the name of
		Jordan J. Breslow; a careful reading of the copyright
		forms.  If you *really* care about protecting your musical
		works, get a copyright lawyer with experience in the music
		business to tell you what's right and wrong.


	1)  The use of (c) as a substitute for � has no legal standing
	    whatsover.  This is not just my opinion, it is the opinion
	    of the above mentioned Jordan J. Breslow who wrote an article
	    that circulated around the network a few years ago.

	    Also, For what it's worth, I have studied the relavent portions
	    of "This Business Of Music" (TBOM) as well as the descriptions
	    of the copyright notices (and uses thereof) that are part of the
	    copyright form instructions.  Since the copyright instructions

		a) specifically provide two copyright notice mechanisms
		   that do not depend on the �, and

		b) are very clear about the required form of the notice

	    I see clear support for Mr. Breslow's contention that (c) is
	    utterly useless.  The only officially specified notices for
	    a PA (performing art) copyright are

		� <date> <name of copyright holder>
		Copyright <date> <name of copyright holder>
		Copr. <date> <name of copyright holder>

	2)  Having said that, it probably doesn't matter in this situation
	    since the proper copyright notice for sound recordings is the
	    SR notice which uses the "letter P in a circle" symbol (which
	    I will denote as <encircled P> since I can't create that symbol
	    on this terminal).  It's the same idea as the �, but with a "P"
	    instead of a "C" inside the circle.  Unlike the PA notice,
	    there is no written out substitute for the leading symbol in
	    the SR notice.

	    The SR (sound recording) notice is

		<encircled P> <date> <name of copyright holder>

	    According to TBOM, the � notice on records, CDs, and tapes is
	    for the artwork and the liner notes.

	3)  Also, the copyright notices should go on either the tape label
	    or the tape box liner, maybe both.  Having the notices in the
	    commusic liner notes is probably useless since you can't expect
	    anyone to keep those notes with the tape.

	4)  If you don't want to list all the different copyright owners,
	    there is (according to TBOM) an alternative:  have the person
	    doing the compilation use a single notice with his or her name
	    for the compilation.  For example,

		<encircled P> <1989> Paul J. Harriman

	    Of course this means the person doing the compilation is the
	    copyright holder of that particular grouping of copyrighted
	    works, which I think is the case anyhow.  Lest anyone panic,
	    according to TBOM it does not make this person the copyright
	    holder for the individual works in the compilation.

	    Also, to be *really* safe you might want to register the
	    compilation.  Then again, that may be carrying it a bit
	    too far.


	Finally, please note that I'm not trying ruffle any feathers or
	give anybody (especially the people who assemble and distribute
	the tape) a hard time.  I know a lot of work goes into one of
	these tapes.

	Also, I don't even know if anyone submitting to a COMMUSIC tape
	is really all that concerned about protecting their copyright.  If
	not, fine.  Just ignore this.  Otherwise, you might want to take
	the above into consideration and get a lawyer.


								John

> < Note 1631.131 by IDONT::MIDDLETON >
>                   -< Copyright considerations. >-
>Just ignore this.  
    
    Solid.

	I had a lawyer tell me it was okay.

	Whatever. If a majority of contributors concurs I'll change it. We've
	had this discussion (see note .0, this topic) before. 

	Otherwise;

	I have decided to f*** waiting for my reel deck to get fixed and I just
	went ahead and made a couple of cassette masters. Therefore submittors
	will get their tapes in the mail this week. APOLOGIES!

	Paul Kent, I need postage money for shipping the European master, it's
	on cassette.

	/pjh

    Yesterday I saw  (c) on something national, like maybe a video,
    but I am too tired to remember.
    Tom

    
    
    re -2
    
    How much ?
    
    What address ?
    
    							Paul
    
    

    
    I believe 10.16 says it all. Your Postal Service should be able to tell
    you the postage for a compact cassette to the USA. The costs are broken
    down in detail there also.
    
    /pjh

    
    For the sheer fun of it I called the copyright office in Washington,
    D.C. and asked them about � vs. (c), the SR copyright notice, and where
    the notice should go.  The person I talked to was Paige Miller and she 
    said the following:
    
    1)	� vs. (c) - it would be up to the courts to decide on the legality 
    	of (c) as a substitute.  The copyright office is not willing to say 
    	one or the other.  
    
    2)	PA vs. SR form of the notice on things like the COMMUSIC tapes - the 
    	SR form is normally used by recording companies who do not own the 
    	copyright in the underlying music.  The PA form (the � form) is 
    	probably the right one for the COMMUSIC tapes.
    
    3)	Where the notice should go - on the cassette shell or the box liner.  
    	Ms. Miller said that putting the notice on something that does not
    	accompany the tapes (for example, liner notes that are sent out
    	separately) is useless.
    
    
    								John

    Was I mistaken or were the submitters supposed to be getting copies
    direct from Paul H.??
    
    dbii without a copy so far

	Nope, not mistaken. Not all have been sent. Yours specifically is
	sitting in the front seat of my car, going into the mail today.

	For those who have been waiting, there were a bunch out last week,
	and it appears to take four business days (usually) to get something
	back to Mass from here. It takes up to 6 business days to get something
	to the West Coast. They don't call it the US Snail for nothin.

	But I had to go to the Post Office to get stamps because not everyone
	sent stamps, they sent money instead.

	evah onwahd.

	/pjh

    
    RE: .134
    
    >    Yesterday I saw  (c) on something national, like maybe a video,
    >    but I am too tired to remember.
    >    Tom
    
    Last night I was reading through some old Guitar Player magazines and
    in the August 1988 issue I ran across an article on Copyright Basics
    by Richard P. Dieguez, a New York music lawyer.  His article matches
    up well with all of the other stuff I've read, and it also comments on
    something relevant to Tom's statement.  He says that many people, even 
    companies you would expect to have legal staffs and know better, get it 
    wrong, some going so far as to confuse copyright and trademark notices.  
    He doesn't discuss (c), but does mention that common substitutions for
    � include the @ symbol, and that abbreviations other than Copyr. are
    sometimes used.  They are all incorrect.
    
    Now he doesn't say you will necessarily lose your copyright if your 
    copyright notice is flawed, but he does say you are taking a risk with 
    some of your rights as a copyright holder.
    
    He also states that a comprehensive international copyright notice for
    both sheet music and phonorecords takes the form
    
    	� <encircled p> <date> <name of copyright holder>.  All Rights
    	Reserved.
    
    
    
    								John

    < Note 1631.140 by IDONT::MIDDLETON >
                             -< Copyright Basics >-
>    	� <encircled p> <date> <name of copyright holder>.  All Rights
>    	Reserved.

    Incredible rathole.. how you make the little circled c image on
    a VT terminal (or DECterm) ??  
    
    thanks, karl

    You mean this one? �
    
    <compose char> O, c
    
    Edd (who never could do that before!)

    
    
    Or  <compose char> c, o
    
    Works either way!
    
    Ralph
    

near the bottom

or on a DECterm:  space_<compose>  o,c 

Chad

    
    Now if <compose character><space> o,p would produce the <encircled p> 
    symbol we'd be all set.
    
    
    							John

	It has been said that the one constant in life is change.  It seems
	the rules on copyright notices have changed.  The United States now
	complies with the Bern Convention, so you no longer need to include
	a copyright notice on your work.

	The flip side of the coin is that you can no longer assume that a
	work without a notice is public domain, and you can no longer claim
	protection as an innocent infringer just because there was no notice.

	In spite of the above, it is probably a good idea to continue to use
	the notice.  It leaves less room for error.

	The above information is from a phone conversation with the U.S.
	Copyright Office.  Also, they are sending me Circulars 93 and 93A
	which describe the changes caused by compliance with the Bern
	Convention.

	Standard disclaimer:  I'm not a lawyer.  Get one if your care.


								John