Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    I've seen a couple of different size rack screws. My big rack (in
    my living room, it's black and chrome and out of the '50s) takes
    10-32s, not 10-24s. However, it has threading in all of the rack
    holes. The rack that my partner bought appears to have some kind
    of Metric size - it's newer, apparently, also. My road rack has
    no threads, big holes, and fits anything from 1/4" to 8-32s before
    the heads fall through the holes. No doubt it really wants clip-nuts.
    The Ultimate rack that I got to fit on my keyboard stand has oblong
    holes, 1/4"x3/8"...! So I got 1/4"x1" bolts with wing nuts for that.
    
    /pjh

    Re: .1
    
    Thanks Paul.  I should clarify.  The rack has strips which have
    pre-drilled and pre-tapped holes.  Sounds like the 10-32 might do
    it.
    
    Any other wisdom is welcome.
    
    		Derek

    Finding screws for your rack is one of the classic problems of having
    rack-mounts.  Whenever I buy new gear, I ask for screws.  Don't
    count on finding the right color and size in your local hardware
    store.  My best guess is that they are some metric size.
    
    By the way, another classic problem is finding rubber balls
    with the right sized holes in them to raise up the back of the keyboard
    on a stand.  Pet stores used to carry them, but not lately.  Forget
    the local hardware store, too.  Maybe a hobby shop, but I haven't
    found anything, yet.  
    
    Here's my complete list of hard-to-find goodies that the salesman
    might indicate are easy-to-get in order of difficulty of obtainment:
    
    	1. black rack-mount screws
    	2. aforementioned rubber balls
    	3. a record contract
    	4. cheap QD's
    	5. the last fx box you'll ever need
    	6. the last synth you'll ever need
    	7. a good trade-in value for the stuff you bought last year
	8. third party support in a year for the stuff you just bought
	9. a date with the lady in the Ramsa ad
    	10. more credit
        
    As a rule, always be suspect when the salesman says you can get
    this part 'anywhere' and that he just doesn't have them in stock right 
    now.
    
    Steve

    I solved my rack screw problem more or less forever by buying two
    bags of 100 screws and washers from American Musical Supply.
    $10.00/bag.
    
    len.
    

    I solved my rack screw problem more or less forever by having len
    buy two bags of 100 screws and washers from American Musical
    Supply. $10.00/bag.
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd
    
    

    what size were these n bags of 100 screws?

    Smaller than breadbox.  Big enough to hold 100 screws and washers.
    
    Seriously, maybe 2" * 3" by 1/2" thick?
    
    len.
    

    ...sigh...
    
    I shudda known better. Oh well.

    On a related issue, is the vertical spacing between screw holes
    the same for all rack mount stuff?  
        
    The reason I'm asking is that I'm planning on converting our former 
    stereo cabinet into a poor man's rack for my reverb and compressor.  
    What I figured I'd do is drill holes and put in those little threaded 
    thingies (forgive the technical jargon).  But I want to do the whole 
    rack, not just four holes for the two pieces of rack mount equipment I 
    have.  Can I just put thingies X distance apart, X being the distance
    between the holes on the pieces I have (which are consistent, but
    I don't wanna make any assumptions).
    
    Rodney M.
    
    

    
    The spacing is consistent, but it is NOT consistent between any
    2 vertical holes. It's actually a group of holes, every two vertical
    holes being matched,
    
    i.e.
    
    x		x
    x		x
    
    x		x
    x		x	(not to scale, kids)
    
    x		x
    x		x
    
    I don't remember the actual dimensions off the top o'me head, but
    if you stack your two single rack-mount pieces, then measure the
    distance between the holes, you'll get the idea.
    
    /pjh
    
    

RE: .9

    Watch using the "threaded thingies" (I enjoyed that - thanks) for
    mounts.  I just got done building a road rack and had considered using
    them, but they are somewhat prone to stripping, and will chatter unless
    you've drilled a *very* good hole for them to sink into.

    I ended up sitting the rack on its backside, laid everything in face
    up, measured and drilled to the holes, rather than drilling a bunch of
    excess holes.  I then used good old wide-top screws and lock-nuts (with
    ring washers, of course) to mount the stuff.  It's solid as a rock.

    Another thing to watch for are metal thorns.  If you have a nose
    grinder attachment for your drill (or even a round file), make sure you
    de-burr the hole after you drill it.  I didn't on the first one and
    ended up with a piece of aluminum in my finger.  Very painful.

-b

    Sorry, Rodney, I didn't realize until after I'd hit ^z what you
    were really asking.  I don't know the screw size - they were advertised
    as "rack screws", and there's no size mentioned on the package,
    or on the screws themselves [;^)].
    
    len.
    

    re .11
    
    The reason I was going to use the inserts (what *are* they called,
    anyway?) is because the sides of the cabinet are wood (or, more
    likely, a wood laminate), not metal. I figure I can force fit the
    inserts so that they don't chatter or rotate.
    
    I didn't want to go directly into the wood in case I ever want to
    change the setup. The tip on deburring the holes is well taken, tho.
    
    re. 10
    
    Thanks, that's what I was wondering about, even though I didn't
    explain it very well.

    Rodney M.

    Boy, what a controversial subject!
    
    I think I'll just stop being so cheap and call AMS and have them
    send me the screws and the nylon washers.  I wanted them to use
    this weekend but I'll live, I guess :-(
    
    Sorry I didn't put this under the topic of racks and such.  Guilty
    as charged.
    
    		Contritely,
    		Derek

	I would offer a somewhat unsure warning concerning the hole spacing
described in a few of the replies here.  I say 'unsure' because I haven't ever
gone and measured hole distances on my rack, but...

	I built a couple of racks using steel rack railing salvaged from a
computor rack.  There are a LOT more holes than the previous notes showed, and
they are not spaced 1" then 3/4" then 1"...  Like I said, I've never gone to 
measure the pattern, but it's different than described previously.  I assumed
that they are set up for two deviations 

	1)  For rack units that are more than 1 unit high

		Some of my rack modules are multiple levels high.  They do not
		put the mounting holes on the top and bottom, where, if I had
		set multiple single units in its place, the top hole of my unit
		would correspond to the top hole of the top single unit.  Rather
		they are located somewhere in the middle.

	2)  For a flexible placement of the unit vertically in the rack

		You may not want an amp, for instance, to sat all the way to the
		bottom, as you may want some room for it to dissipate heat.

	Has anyone else seen the mounting hole arrangement I've described and 
explain better why it was laid out that way as opposed to the simpler pattern
described by others in this topic?

	Dan

    I can vouch for the fact that 10-32 screws are hard to find.
    Somerville Lumber (which has a pretty good stock of hardware) does
    not have 10-32 screws.  They have 10-24 (which I bought originally)
    and 8-32 (which I bought last night), but no 10-32.  
    
    The 10-24 appear to be the right diameter but the thread is wrong. 
    The 8-32 are the right thread but they are too loose.
    
    I am going to try calling a few of the local music stores to see if
    they can help (fat chance), but if there are any noters who live in the
    greater Maynard area who would be kind enough to loan me 4 rack screws
    for my gig on Saturday, I would be greatly appreciative.
    
    		Thanks,
    		Derek_desparately_seeking_rack_screws 

    I know $10/100 is steep, but I couldn't find them anywhere else
    and they fit perfectly.  They are the oval head Phillips slot type
    that you mention, and come with black fiber (not nylon) washers.
    
    Music stores seem to lose rack screws like they were freely available.
    Actually, I suspect they folks who work there "borrow" them, because
    they're so hard to find...  Also it seems to be increasingly the
    case that rack mounted gear is shipped sans mounting screws.  My
    D-550 didn't come with any screws.
    
    len.
    

    > Also it seems to be increasingly the
    > case that rack mounted gear is shipped sans mounting screws.  My
    > D-550 didn't come with any screws.

    I can see the dealer now: "Oh, Mr. Fehskens, you mean actually wanted
    to mount your D-550 in a RACK?  What a novel concept..."  
    
    This is starting to sound like a conspiracy.
    
    		Derek_the_paranoid

    Usually the guys at EUWurly's will try to scrounge up screws for
    me, but too often they can only find 3, and they're all different
    styles.  So when I saw the bag of screws in the AMS catalog, I jumped.
    
    BTW, racks themselves never come with any screws either.
               
    If there's some way we can get together before your gig, I'd be
    happy to *give* you four screws and washers, Derek.

    len.
    

    re .14 - those hole spacings sound suspicious.  I drew them out
    on a piece of paper, and they don't look right at all.
    
    I don't have any rack mounted gear with me, so I can't measure anything
    until I get home, but I'd be wary of running off this weekend and
    drilling and tapping a lot of holes with the spacing specified in .14.
                 
    Also, you can get predrilled/tapped rack rail that can be mounted in
    any case you want.  Also available from AMS, probably at a "steep"
    price.                                
    
    len.
    

	The best place I know of to get rack hardware is Penn Fabrication.
They ship in a week's time, great prices.  Someone has my catalog right now
so I can't give you the address.  Anyone else have it?

	Dan

    Hmm, it wasn't .14 that had the hole spacings in it, and .15 has
    disappeared.
    
    Anyway, I measured my racks this weekend, and the holes in the units
    I have are spaced on 1/2" and 1 1/4" centers.  I.e., the holes are
    1/4" from the edges of the 1 3/4" high rack space.  Also, the holes
    are 18 1/2" apart across the face of the panel.  This means they
    are 1/4" from the left and right edges of each panel.  Depending
    on the thickness of the rail, and the sharpness of the bend's
    curvature,  the holes in the rail may be just about any distance
    from the edge of the rail.  The important thing is that when the
    rails are mounted, the holes be 18 1/2" apart.
         
    Pictorially, relative to the rack mountable unit:
    
                |1/4|<---------- 18 1/2" ----------->|1/4|
    -----  ---	+-----------------  ...  ----------------+
      ^	   1/4"	|                                        |
      |    ---  |   O                                O   |
      |         |                                        |
     7/4"  5/4" |                                        |
      |         |                                        |
      |    ---  |   O                                O   |
      v    1/4" |                                        |
    -----  ---  +---------------  ...  ------------------+
    
    The holes in the rack mountable unit are usually pretty ample ovals,
    so there's a lot of tolerance for minor errors in hole position.
    
    len.
    

    Re- .22
    	
    	Penn Fabrication(U.S.A.) Inc.
    	1111 Rancho Conejo Blvd., Unit 303
    	Newbury Park, California  91320
    	(805) 499-5932
    
    or,
    	2144 Woodbridge Avenue
    	Detroit, Michigan 48207
    	(313) 961-9111
    
    or,
    	P.O. Box 356
    	96 Lafayette Avenue
    	Hawthorne. New Jersey 07506
    	(201) 423-4404
              
    	
    	Neal
    
    
                    
    

    
    Does anyone have any extra rack screws they'd like to sell?
    
    Mike D

    Where are you?  I paid $3.50 for a dozen, with washers, at Daddy's,
    Nashua.  They are from the Rack-Crate people and have worked out well.
    
    	Eirikur
    

    EUW in Boston had em in black for .24 cents a piece.
    
  

    How many ya need?
    
    Len gave me a bunch and I can possibly pass the favor on...
    
    Edd

    
    re .25  That's funny. I deal a lot with Daddy's in Salem, and I asked
    them just last night if they sold rack screws, and they said no!! They
    didn't even mention the Nashua store! Makes me wonder about them.
    
    Mike D

My rack is the kind where you need the clips, not with pre-threaded holes.  I
found screws (8-24??) for it at the hardware store.  They also had those
grey fiber washers.

Chad

    I looked high and low for rack screws a while ago, and low and
    behold I went downtown to the local hardware store and got
    screws, nuts and nylon washers (to protect the rack face)
    total cost for a 2 foot tall rack of stuff ~$6