Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    In the previous note, I meant to say that the DSP128 sounds wonderful,
    I'm still working on the sounds. One day I'll conquer basic motor
    skills  and be able to type. I'm not really that self centered.
    
    Geoff

    
    I think that the use of effects in a recording (or live, for that
    matter) is an entirely subjective act. It depends on a number of
    things, including how many parts are being 'effected' at once, what
    other effects are in the mix, how many people are in the audience
    if you are playing live, etc.
    
    However, there are some cause-and-effect (no pun intended)
    relationships which you can be aware of and use to make judgements
    on your use of effects...
    
    like, for instance, the use of reverberation. Using too much
    reverberation for too long, albeit habit-forming, causes your sound
    to go to mud. If you are a sax player, a little reverb is nice.
    
    Delay is another matter. Depending on whether or not you are doing
    a solo, you may want more or less delay. How long the delay is another
    matter,again. Sometimes you might want to have a long delay for
    a particular effect...but not through a whole song. 
    
    Likewise with flanging/phasing/chorusing. All doppler effects sound
    great, but overuse tends to make them clich�. 
    
    I think what I'm trying to say is 'don't overuse your fx box'. A
    dsp-128 lets you do lots of things, and all at once. Whether or
    not that sounds good will be up to your audience.
    
    /pjh

    The best way to develop new effects is to set the parameters on
    the box to the most extreme values allowed.  Put that parameter
    on
    maximum, that one on its minimum, and so forth, then after trying
    it
    out, reverse all the relationships and mix  & match.
    About excessively long use of effects,
    Who was that flute player that built his whole internationally
    famous career on album after album entirely recorded in large
    echoey places like taj mahal?
    GO FOR IT!!!!
    Tom

    Gated Reverb is nice on the snare drum, although I've been known
    to throw it on vocals or back vocals to beef 'em up a little.  
    
    Reverse reverb is nice (if you can sync it) for doing simulated
    drum rolls or specialty effects on percussion sounds.
    
    Chorus (The All Purpose Effect) This is probably the least obtrusive
    effect.   You can get away with putting a little chorus on everything,
    although it's best to be selective.   Add it to lead lines or vocals
    to fatten and "pull them into tune". 
    
    The best advise, however, is just to experiment and make it sound
    how you think is right.   Be careful not to overuse (mix in too
    loud) any of the effects (usless you want wild sound).  Have fun.
    							Scott. 

    Always use effects with no through and 100% effect
    Tom

    re .3
    The flute player you allude to is Paul Horn.  He already had a
    successful career as a jazz flautist before he recorded one (count'em,
    one) record in the Taj Mahal.  There may have been a followup record,
    but to say that his success is based entirely on recording in large
    spaces is a bit misleading.
    
    Perhaps you are confusing him with the Paul Winter Consort (?), a group
    that does things like record in the Grand Canyon.
                                                                  
    len (a fan of Paul Horn's for over 20 years now).
    

    From a practice perspective, I find it best to eliminate ALL effects
    except those that directly affect the melodic aspect of the performance
    (eg, gated verb, "timed" DDL, multi-taps).  Leave reverb, chorus, fuzz,
    and even slight DDL off while getting lines down. 

    Why?  A couple reasons.  FX can cover up sloppy chops - so your playing
    suffers.  Also, as PJ alluded to earlier, it is possible to suffer from
    "reverb burnout", and if you use you ear a lot (like I do), then you
    may end up doing strange things with FX that you wouldn't normally do,
    like a full wet fuzz guitar solo in Old Man's Cave (see COMMUSIC IV for
    details)... 

    Of course, if you're assembling tunes to play out, then this advice is
    (as usual) null and void.  How do you like the DSP?

-b

    See note 1132.*, in which I asked (almost) the same question ...
    
    (more on using (and choosing) FX) ...
    
        	-Jim

    re 1450.7
    I like the DSP, I think. It does good things. I'll know more after
    I use it more.
    
    Geoff

    Anybody else notice the chap playing the WX7 backing Whitney
    Houston at the Wembley 'Nelson Mandela Birthday Concert'? 
    
    Sounded great.
    
    Richard.

    Re: .7
    
    Do you think that The Edge practices without effects?
    
    Steph

    RE: .11
    
    The Edge uses mostly the "timed" DDL that Brad specifically mentions
    as an exception to his theory of effects use.
    
    But this comment points out a division in how I view effects.
    I think that most of the responses here that suggest restraint
    when using effects are referring to a studio situation and in
    that case I would agree. Not going overboard when adding effects
    in the mixdown will give a clearer, nicer sounding final piece.
    
    But, as an instrumentalist (guitarist in my case) I like to make
    maximum use of effects. My chorus is always on, it's just part of
    my "sound". I use a lot of "timed" echo (love The Edge's sound).
    Some people (Tom?) use the effect almost as an instrument itself.
    
    Maybe this applies more to guitar than other instruments. I can't
    think of a synth player that uses outboard gear like a guitarist
    might, maybe because synths have more sonic capabilities to start
    with. All depends on what sounds you're trying to get to.
    
    Rob
        

    I have to agree that a guitar play tends to us more effects
    consistantly than a keyboard player. Since I play both, I suspect
    it is because that the variations in tone on a guitar are substantially
    limited in comparison to a keyboard with sorts of available sounds.
    Guitar is my main instrument, but I rarely use a chorus unit, where
    I prefer the effect on a keyboard. I suppose that's the best part
    about all the new technology in music, there is enough variation
    that each person can bring in the pieces that they want (or can
    afford) and either maintain, or create new musical personalities.
    Slick Stuff.
    
    								Jens

RE: my previous posting

    I was referring to PRACTICE, not actual performance.  Hey, if you're
    trying to incorporate FX into your performance as part of your sound,
    AND as part of your practice, go for it.  But mark my words, if you get
    into the HABIT of practicing with mega-fuzz/reverb on your guitar, or
    with lots of FX on your synth (or by constantly hold the sustain pedal
    on the piano), your chops will suffer.  Play dirty, but practice clean. 

    I am primarily a keyboardist, although I play guitar.  This is purely
    subjective, but I find that I use effects more on parts that will tend
    to stand out.  I use chorus, distortion, various DDL FX and reverb, in
    addition to MIDI controllers when I do synth solos.  But I cut back on
    the use dramatically when I'm playing fills and acting in a "support"
    role (as opposed to a "lead" role). 

    From my perspective, outboard FX not programmed with the patch itself
    lend an extra degree of expression. 

-b

    I practice guitar on my Carvin plugged directly into a 12 watt
    Dean Markeley practice amp set on the cleanest possible setting.
    
    I practice keyboards on my RD-300 on a basic piano setting.  No
    effects, not even reverb.
    
    Also, I usually practice to a metronome or to the click of a drum
    machine (which I like cause it emphasizes the first beat).
    
    My philosophy is that this is the best way to expose weaknesses in
    almost any area: expression, timing, etc.  Reverb can smooth over
    bum notes, timing problems, etc.  Going absolutely dry seems to
    make any mistake stand out like a sore thumb.
    
    If I can play a piece and make it sound good under these circumstances,
    it gives me tremendous confidence when I play it with all the
    processing stuff added.
    
    	db

    Another thing that I've found useful while practicing is to not get too
    tied to one instrument.  I'll do a few days on my piano (Sohmer, not
    electric) and then use the KX76 for a few days.  The change in action
    helps to keep fingering precise and firm. 

    And, if you're really into misery, use a patch with a very sharp attack
    and not much sustain (KX mode only, of course).  Then do timing
    exercises (like Hanon).  It's amazing how unsyncronized your hands are,
    even after having mastered the exercises on a piano. 

-b

Exactly what are effects?  If I move my set of acoustic drums from the cellar
to a sound room, am I gonna hear changes in room ambience?  Yep.  Do I
play any different in one room or the other?  As a matter of fact, I probably
do.  The sound produced by an instrument will affect the way it is played
by the musician.  I don't play a flute patch the same way I play a string
pad.

The point is to practice using the sound that you want to be good at making.
I happen to love using lots of effects on guitars and synths (Fripp would be 
proud).  I like the sound they make with those effects.  I want to be good
at making them, which is why I practice with them...

Todd.