Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    The Senate is also pushing a bill prohibiting the use of
    FM Rhodes patches.
    
    ...'bout time!!!
    
    Something has to be done. The youth of today have no morals
    or ability to puctuate properly due to these evils. 
    
    I think they should enforce capital punishment for any band with
    the word "White" in it's name.
    
    Edd

    They should put a rider on that FM bill to prohibit the D-50 Fantasy
    patch.  Also they could say that it was gonna get the asbestos out
    of our schools if they wanted to really get it through in a hurry.
    
    Steph

    SET TOPIC/RATHOLE
    
    And what about these often-used sounds ...
    
    Steinway pianos, that same timbre sometimes fills an entire album!
    Bands who use only one (real) Snare, for every song!
    Stradivarius (?sp) violins, so clich� ...
    
In other words, what distinguishes "cliche, overused, wrongly-used"
    from "used often because it sounds good"???  :-)

    re .1 >
    
    	O.k., so a particular synth produces such a good patch that
    sounds so good, is so expressive, and can be applied in so many
    situations that everyone condemns it because it is so popular. 
    Sounds just like the top 40 syndrome:   everyone else likes it,
    and god forbid, I don't want to be like everyone else, so I'm gonna
    hate it just for that point.
    	What if, in pre-DX days, a company built an acoustic instrument
    that sounded as nice and was as reliable and practical as the DX
    rhodes sound, but it was its only sound?  It would just be accepted
    as a good sounding instrument that makes one hell of a good sound.
	
    	Ron 
    
	(with sarcasm)
    	- who is pushing a bill to punish anyone using those damn round
    things with heads on them -- drums! -- sure, they make great sounds,
    but, gad, they're overused!
    					;^)

    That's my point in .4 
    
    Some sounds have used for centuries without that many complaints
    about them being "clich�".  Some sounds are so "good" and so are
    sought-after, like "THE" grand-piano sound.
    
    Drummers can use the same kit, bassist the same bass (or perhaps
    2 basses), etc., all gig/album long, and we never seem to see
    complaints, but heaven forbid the keyboardist should use his "Rhodes
    patch" more than a couple of times, and he's "overusing" it!

    Gosh, there was a LONG time there when all I played in public was
    the 'Rhodes' patch.  I believe the unit was made by Fender and
    was designed by one Harold Rhodes.. heavy sucker though. Now that
    I have a KX88 and a big rack I'm MUCH more portable (wink)
    
    karl

    I didn't mean to ban COMMUSIC V.  I was cut off at the pass by 
    a net disconnect.
    I said ban flanging.
    But that would end the easy-listening of yuppies, new age.
    and commusic V
    8-)
    Tom

    The ESQ-1 has a patch that is destined to be tacked on to this bill
    as a rider. The DIGPNO (db will back me on this ;^) patch is a tad
    over used. DIGPNO seems to be the ESQ-1 'signature' patch. It
    proliferates Comusic IV.
    
    For those of you who missed the point of the topic (most of you
    did, so pay attention here), humor was used to ridicule those who
    cling to timbres which were original in their conception, but have
    become timeworn in their use. 
    
    Those of you who would compare this criticism to criticizing the
    time-invariant tone of a Steinway or Stradivarius are missing an
    important point. Stienway has yet to add things like envelope
    generators, filters, and LFOs to their pianos. They don't have to.
    The only timbres you can get out of it come from your hands, and
    the placement of the piano on your room. SYNTHESIZERS, on the other
    hand, have all those funny buttons on them so you can create >NEW!<
    sounds.
    
         Some creative person once made an Orchestra Hit. The group
    Yes used it in 'Owner of a lonely Heart'. Within months, (or so
    it seemed) the effect showed up in the most unusual places. That
    effect is highly limited in its scope, and yet there is a current
    flop-40 song that actually doubles the melody line with Orchestra
    Hits. It doesn't work. But then, flop-40 music has never known the
    bounds of good taste.
    
    Let us review the major points, so there is no confusion:
    
    1) Pianos and Violins are not programmable instruments, and should
       not be viewed as such.
    
    2) Synthesizers are programmable (by some people) and should be
       used as such.
    
    3) Try creating a new timbre for each new song you work on. Hmmm,
       what would a magic-marker writing on ice sound like... you get
       the idea.
    
    I almost never flame in this conference,
    dp
    
    

    The tone of an acoustic piano is
not time invariant.
    Tom

    There is something different, in my mind, between a piano sound
    and a cliche synth patch.
    
    Actually, I think that it has to do with if a timbre is used
    ``expressively'' versus ``texturally''.  In other words, if the
    D-50 fantasy patch is used in a massive solo, that's fine, because
    the performer is imparting motion upon the sound (I hope).  On the
    other hand, if it is used as a ``lets put a little swish in here
    by just pushing a key'' sound, then it really smacks of cliche.
    
    Of course, any sound, not just synthesized, is subject to this type of
    clicheing. Post-production strings and Carpenter style backing vocals
    evoke the same wave of nausea as the D-50 Fantasy patch.  It is just
    much cheaper to get cliche textures with a synth. 
    
    Steph
    

    re .10
    
>         The tone of an acoustic piano is
> not time invariant.
>    Tom
    
    I knew I was going to get in trouble for saying that. You're quite
    correct, Tom. For that matter, neither is the tone of a violin.
    
    Thanks for keeping me honest ;^)
    dp

    I don't know, the Fantasy Patch (also on the MT-32) is so good,
    I use it for everything, even as a drum machince. If course, the
    previous sentance is pure BS, but, as far as I'm concerned anyone
    can use any patch that they like. I'd love to illegalize Rod Stewards
    Voice (Immidately causes me to change channels on the radio), and
    quite a few other non-synth sounds, why, cause I don't like them.
    Since other people do, then I guess it's ok, amy maybe should be
    legal.
    
                   Jens_who_uses_orchestra_hits_when_he_feels_like_it. 

    
    Could someone please tell us non-d50 owners what the Fantasy patch
    sounds like? Maybe cite some obvious examples?
    
    Thanks
    
    CdH
    

As far as I'm concerned, most popular music is filled with untolerable cliches.
Which is why I no longer listen to mainstream radio.

Is it true that the BSO sometimes employs 'Synth Hits'?

Rhodes (not the patch).

    re .9
    
    The Cars' "Hello, Again" has one (1) orchestra hit in it. Even though
    it wasn't an original idea then, it sounds great among the *30 or 40*
    other synth patches used on that one cut.
    
    It's not the sound itself that's clich�, it's the sound combined with
    the way it's used.  It really gets your attention in that tune.
    
    
     

    				

    Orchestra hits scare me on the Mirage....
    
    I just *KNOW* that someday, somewhere, I'm gonna load up the disc
    that I'm *sure* has my ORCHESTRA HIT on it. THen right at the 
    crucial moment I'm gonna SLAM that one key and everyone will
    hear, in full 50khz sample rate splendor....
    
    
    
                   "This is a blank formatted diskette...."
    
    
    
    Edd