Conference napalm::commusic_v1

	I'll start out...

	My first experiences with third-party patches was with my CZ-101.
I picked up a book published by Micro-Ware called 'Easy CZ' which boasted
an amazing 350 original sounds for only $19.95!  Well, I thought, out of
350 I should be able to find at least a coupla dozen that would be musically 
useful.

	First of all, the book is written in very plain english, and has a lot
of strange drawings which illustrate both the concepts presented and some of
the sounds available.  In the beginning is an EXCELLENT explanation of synthesis
in general and synthesis as found in Casio's CZ instruments.  I've not seen a
more in-depth explanation of how to create sounds for ANY instrument as was 
found in this book on the CZ.

	To apply some of his explanations, he walks the reader through the 
creation of one of his stranger patches, that of a parrot saying hello.  Darned
if it doesn't sound close to what he says it does (taking into consideration the
power of suggestion).

	The remainder of the book contains the sounds themselves.  They are 
divided into various classes of instruments (brass, woodwinds, percussion, 
plucked...) and sound effects.  I found the sounds to be alternately good an
fair.  I was interested in about half of them.  The sound effects were quite
extensive, and had a higher rate of success (IMO) at achieving the intended
results than the imitative instruments.  Some of my favorites were 'Car Skidding
into a crash, followed by siren', 'Parrot Saying Hello', many of the animal
sounds (favorites for my kids, too)...

	On the whole, I highly recommend the book.  The text portions are 
written with a humorous style, and the drawings, well, you have to see them...

	I'd say it was $20 well spent.

	Dan

    This is a slight tangent to the topic, but not TOOOOOO far...
    
    After futzing with my DX for 2+ years and the TZ for a few months,
    I'm fairly adept at editing a patch that's "close but no cigar".
    What puzzles me is how ANYONE can offer "256 unique patches for
    your ZX-1" for $24.95 and expect to make any cash.
    
    Let's look at...
    
                 1. Time. How many hours does it take to come up with
                    256 patches? Even if you just modify factory presets,
                    we be talkin' days...
    
                 2. What's the market? Has anybody in this file ever
                    bought any patches? (Acknowledged: We're not your
                    'typical' users...)
    
    I'll bet the best way to make money in that market is to offer "256
    unique patches for $24.95" and offer a demo tape for $5. Plan to
    make your profit on the demo tape...
                                        
    
    Edd

    
    Dan:  Where did you get the "Easy CZ" book?  I'd like to get a copy.
    Is it in music stores or did you order it through Micro-Ware? 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Peter

RE < Note 1200.3 by 4TRACK::LAQUERRE >

	Actually, I picked it up at a store that was going out of business
in Cambridge.  But, there are ads in mag's like Keyboard for them...

	Oh heck, I'll go look for the address...

	Here it is...  Oops, that's Micro-W (not Micro-Ware...)

		Micro-W
		1342 B Route 23
		Butler, NJ 07405

		DTN, er, phone # 201-838-9027

	Howzat?

	Dan
    

    
    Thanks Dan.  I just called and they're sending me a catalog.  I
    could have ordered it over the phone, but they wanted MasterCard/VISA
    and all I've got on me right now is an AMEX card.  When I get the
    catalog I'll post any other interesting Synth books they publish.
   
    Thanks for the info,
    
    Peter

    re .5 - I also highly recommend the Mix Bookshelf (watch for ads
    in Mix and Electronic Musician).  Tons of stuff about music,
    recording, synths, etc..  Software too.
    
    len.
    

    I also have the 350 sounds for the CZ-101 - It's a great book (lots
    of mediocre patches, but they were easy to modify, thanks to the
    information in the book).
    
    After buying the CZ & realizing what a pain it is to set all of
    the parameters thru a tiny little window - and then have to try
    to remember what it was you set 3/4ths of the settings to, I decided
    that I wouldn't buy another synth that didn't come with lots of
    patches, or there was not a good aftermarket in patches (like found
    in the back of Keyboard magazine). Anyone know whats available
    for the MT-32?
    							Jens

    I bought a tape of alternate JX-3p patches from roland. A couple
    of the sounds were pretty nice, particularly the bass guitar patches.
    Worth the 15.95 or whatever it was they cost me...
    
    
    dave

    Yeah, I've heard that tape, nice bass patches. I used one on my
    Commusic II submission "Cannes"...
    
    Edd

    I have.  I developed 64 new patches for the D50 and marketed them
    in the Classifieds section of Keyboard magazine.  Of course with
    the advertising expenses I didn't make a huge profit, but the
    experience was fun.
    
    It just seemed natural to me -- a play in a band, so when I got
    the D50 I had to spend alot of time fine-tuning and developing new
    patches to use in particular songs.  I figured other working musicians
    could benefit from my work, so I called myself "Prism Concepts" and
    advertised 64 useful sounds for working musicians.  The response
    has been steady, but not overwhelming.
    
    I came up with a demo tape that I offer for $5;  that was a fun
    project in itself, and I think it came out very professional-sounding.
    
    Of course the original 64 patches took much more time than I think
    is worth (for the return I got), but it was still fun.
    
    Ron

    	P.S., if anyone wants the demo tape, check out my ad in the
    December, January, and February issues of Keyboard.

RE: .10

    Submit it to Commusic V.

    Or your conscience (replete with cacti in yard/front) will be sending
    you mail ... 

    I attended a Yamaha demo given by Bo Tomlin a while ago.  On the
    strength of his demonstrated ability I bought his first offering
    of DX7 patches.  It included so many sounds that I haven't been
    tempted to buy any others, from Bo or anybody else!
    
    By the way, Bo's DX7 patches work fine on the TX802.
        John Sauter

    re -.1
    
    How many patches were there, in what format, for how much?
    
    I recall seeing his patches available from the Mix bookshelf, and
    that he had several collections (wedding band, rock band etc.).
    Which collection did you get?
    
    Guido Simone

    Bo offers his patches in several formats, including DX7 ROM cartridges.
    I got his SYS-EX product for the Apple II, and then got the patches
    in Apple II format.  Just before I "retired" the Apple II I loaded
    the patches into the DX7, then dumped them to the Amiga.
    
    My memory is hazy, but I think his first disk had four banks of
    32 patches each.  I haven't looked into his later offerings.
    The banks had names like "sampler" and "compuerr".
        John Sauter

    The Forat memory cartridge extender (64 cartridges worth of RAM
    for $500 and change) comes preloaded with something like 500 of
    Bo's DX7 patches.  They also make a Roland version, but I don't
    know if it comes with any patches or if Bo does Roland patches.
    Incidentally, the Forat unit can store patches from multiple different
    synths at the same time.  You can get adaptor interfaces for it
    for a variety of synths.
    
    len.
    

	I am entering this review in praise of a package of patches for the
TX81Z (hereafter referred to as the TZ).  The company is Angel City Audio.
The ad that caught my eye was one that I had been looking for - TZ patches that
use the unique features of the TZ, and not just 4-op/8-alg patches (for the DX 
instruments) with a couple of wave-shapes changed here and there.

	First, a little background.  Angel City Audio, from what I can see
consists mainly of the artistic sound-shaping of a man by the name of James
Fellows.  Having spoken with him on the phone a few times, I have found him to
be very helpful and happy to discuss both his work and the technology in 
general.  He not only designs patches for the TZ and the Korg DW-8000, but
does a good deal of custom sound-sculpting for artists throughout the country.

	I first sent away for his demo tape offered in the ad in Keyboard 
Magazine, and was immediately impressed on his grasp of not only the individual
TZ and DW-8000 patches, but of how well he integrates them together and presents
both contemporary models and some very creative original sound palettes.  There
are both individual TZ sounds, and all 24 performance memory locations are 
filled with combinations and layers that are excellent.  They are able to do 
with the TZ what I always hoped the additional wave-forms would afford the 
instrument.  These patches make you forget what kind of synthesis is being used 
because there is a blend of timbres that are extremely reminiscent of the warmth
of analog, the breathiness of Linear Adaptive, the edge and clarity of digital
synthesis.

	Angel City Audio currently has two volumes of TZ patches and a number of
DW-8000 volumes.  They are also looking into the Yamaha TX802 arena as an
expansion of the business.  With the patches, they also publish a newsletter of
information relative to the instruments serviced by the company.  I would not
have known, were it not for this newsletter, that my TZ needed a ROM upgrade 
which Yamaha is offering to TZ owners free of charge that have serial numbers 
within a specific range.

	Anyway, don't just take my word for it.  Get the demo yourself.  I think
it is worth the attention.  Tell them I sent you.

		Angel City Audio
		2 Liberty Place
		Middletown, CT 06457

		Phone: (203)347-5166

    Wow!  I'm interested!  Would you mind posting a few more details
    like:
    
    	o prices and your recommendations of what TZ patches to order
    	o serial number range (so I can check my TZ)
    	o Yamaha contact (so I can order them ROMs if I qualify)

    Thanks!
    
    
    Steve

< Note 1200.18 by MIZZOU::SHERMAN "Baron of Graymatter" >

	As far as the ROM upgrade, any unit with a serial number under 31440
can benefit by the new ROM.  

	The first volume of patches cost around $17 when I bought them, but I
b'lieve the price has gone up to somewhere around $25.  The second was higher 
priced, but to me it has the more useful sounds.  It costs somewhere between 
$30 and $40 (i can't remember axactly).  Anyway, you can call him and get the 
exact prices, or write and ask for the demo tape and catalog.

	As far as the Yamaha contact, he said that any authorized Yamaha service
center can supply the ROM free for instrumewnts under warranty.  I haven't found
a place to deal with yet, and I bought my unit from PROFOUND.  I hope I don't
have to send the unit back there.  James said the ROM is 'user-installable', but
I wonder if that would void the warranty.

	Dan

    Thanks!  I'll check on it ...
    
    Steve

    Can anyone offer recommendations on Ensoniq ESQ1 patches?
    
    	Thanks,
    	Mark
    

    I have all three Voice Crystal 80 voice cartidges.
    They are good for a varied selection of orchestral, analog,
    percussive, and piano-flavor sounds. Nothing is really
    jaw dropping, but all them are very usable.
    They are about $35-40 each from Sam Ash, or $49 direct from
    the manufactuter (Eye and I Productions, back of Keyboard or EM)
    If you get them, get the EEPROM, not the battery powered, 
    I went through 3 battery types, (they died), Eye and I
    was very nice about it, and finally replaced them with
    EEPROM for free.
    F.W.I.W: Eye and I did lots of D50 and SQ-80 patching for 
    Keith Emerson. I was in the Eye and I office when Keith
    Emerson called to thank the guy for the programming.
    (brush with greatness)
    

    I have Voice Crystal 3 (Yellow) and am very pleased with it.
    
    I find myself using lots of the sounds for work with my Top-40
    band.
    
    The Transoniq Hacker reviews 3rd-party patches.  You have to take
    their reviews with a grain of salt as they are mostly positive
    whereas my experience in trying out (always BEFORE buying) 3rd
    party patches tells me that they are less critical than I am.
    
    I'm looking forward to checkout out some of the VC's for the SQ-80,
    as I replaced my ESQ-1 with an SQ-80 recently (and what a good idea
    that was).
    
    I'm still looking for good patches for handclaps and shakers, or
    shaker-like percussives.
    
    	db

    
    I have VC-2 (red), that is quite useful. Most sounds are good, better
    than the stock Ensoniq patches.
    
    fwiw,
    
    /pjh

	Like most of the rest of you, I don't have a lot of money to throw 
around at my MIDI habit buying additional Sound Generating Units (SGU's).  I 
also don't have a lot of time to spend on my MIDI gear, and to me, its more 
important to spend it making music than programming (or even understanding!) FM 
synthesis patches.  That is why it is such a pleasure when I find new life 
pouring out of my current equipment.  And that is exactly what I have found with
Valhala's TX81Z Librarian and 757 patch library software for the C64.

	I'd have to say that I'm really much more delighted with the sounds than
I am with the library.  And that is not to say that the library is bad, either.
It works pretty much the way I'd expect a library to work (having never owned
one before).  It accepts banks of patches from either the TZ or from floppy 
disk.  It can swap patches from between banks (and it holds 10 of them).  It 
sends patch banks to the TZ on any channel (actually on any two channels, though
I'm not sure why).  You can rename any patch and you can create new banks.

	What you cannot do on it is create or save or store any performance 
banks for the TZ.  Kind of a big oversight, I think, but I don't use performance
memory all that much anyway.  And besides, it was cheap.

	What I'm REALLY excited about is the sounds.  757 of them.  And it's 
because of there being so many of them that I'm glad I have the librarian (I'd 
HATE to have to load and save them from cassette!).  There are 28 banks of up
to 32 patches in each, covering the range of categories;

	Ensembles, Brass, Woodwinds, Human Voices, Misc Inst., Electric Organs,
Pipes/Clavs, Synthesizers, Bells, Mallet Instruments, Pianos (Acoustic and
Electric), Effects, Guitars, Basses, Eastern, Percussion, and Violins.

	Now, to be realistic, some of these patches to me are throw aways.  I 
have yet to hear four operator FM do good at human voices and string ensembles. 
And where the patches SHOULD have shined, such as in brass sounds, they were 
just plain BAD.

	But I am DELIGHTED in a couple of banks, mainly in the synth banks and 
in some of the percussion and eastern sounds.  There is a gong that is the best
gong I've heard in a long time - including the one from Len's Super Jupiter on
one of the COMMUSIC tapes (no. 3, perhaps?).  Some of the eastern sounds make
me feel like I'm not missing ANYTHING by not having LA synthesis or a sampler.

	But, by far, there are a few sounds in the synth banks (6 banks in all)
that make me want to go downstairs at every spare minute and fire up the system 
just to hear them again.  Valhala made it a priority to attempt to imitate every
major synth sound from the first modular moogs on up.  Of course, it had to 
choose the more clich� sounds from each instrument, and there are no more than 
3 or 4 'clich�' sounds per synth imitation.  To my mind, they by and large 
succeeded (at least in imitating the synths I am familiar with).  My three
favorites are one of the Chroma imitations, one of the Prophet imitations, and
most of all, one of the Oberheim imitations.

	I have always loved the old analog sounds from the late seventies, early
eighties.  I have some recordings of bands that used the Prophet 5 and I could
listen to them over and over again.  What's nice about this Prophet sound I have
singled out is that on my RD200/TX81Z combination, I have a velocity sensitive
Prophet!  (I know there was the T8, but it never really took off).  I could just
sit and diddle with that sound for hours.

	Lately I have begun to enjoy the particular sound Oberheim is famous 
for.  It has gotten to the point that if I hear an Oberheim, I'll stop all that 
I'm doing just to appreciate that very distinct, fat sound.  I have been making
a mental note that as soon as I can swing it, the Matrix-1000 would be my next
SGU.  This Oberheim patch has taken all the pain away from the amount of time I 
have to wait before I can make that purchase.  It makes my TZ sound so fat that
I just kind of ooze from key to key.

	Well, since I've gone on for more than anyone should about such a minor
purchase, I should mention some of the specifics.  Valhala sells the 757 patches
on cassette for all 4-op instruments (except FB01) for $56.  I believe the TZ 
and DX11 patches are sufficiently unique from the others as I do see plenty of 
usage of the alternate waveforms and velocity sensitivity in the patches I've 
examined.  The Librarian/Library combination sells for only a little more - $70
(plus 3.50 postage/handling).  For the additional $14 dollars, I'll gladly avoid
having to use the cassette deck, thank you.  I think it's a pretty fine deal,
actually.  And, as I said, this is operational for the C64 and C128 (and it was
only written this year, too!).

	Dan Eaton

    Thanks for the review.  Didja notice if they have the same thing
    for the IBM/clones?
    
    Signed,
    Patch Hungry DX11 owner
    
    

RE < Note 1200.26 by FGVAXZ::MASHIA "Crescent City Kid" >

>    Thanks for the review.  Didja notice if they have the same thing
>    for the IBM/clones?
    
	I don't see anything from the ad I found the product from.  They have
an editor librarian for the MAC, that's about it.  Since it's still a new
product, maybe they'll be coming out with one for other systems soon?

	You can still get the patches, though, but it'll be on cassette.

	Dan    

	Forgot to add about the librarian:  It is NOT copy protected!  I am
using the copy and saving the original.

	Dan

    Just saw the ad in Electronic Musician.  I'm gonna get the DX11
    version.  But I'm not looking forward to loading 757 patches via
    cassette interface.  But at least my sequencer can save patch data via 
    sys-ex, so I'll only have to do it once.
    
    Thanks again, Dan.

    Rodney M.

I've seen a Commodore Amiga version of the TX81z patch librarian......I
assume that it would work for the DX11.  I'm waiting for the local store
to get a copy in so that I can see it......then maybe I'll be able to get
something for my DX11 & TX81z!!!

           -Jeff

    
    
      Has anyone purchased/heard any decent 3rd party patches for the
    Roland D10/110/20 series?.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    RichC
    

    I have some that I got from a dealer that were supposedly provided by
    Roland. From what they told me Roland was distributing some of the
    better patches that had been written as a promotional thing. In any
    case, some of them are decent, though I haven't found occasion to use
    them. Some of the MT-32 sounds that the D-10 doesn't have (like Dr.
    Solo) are provided, and a couple of useful bass patches. I'm sure
    others might find more of them useful (I'm just satisfied with my
    regular 256 piece orchestra).
    
    - Ram

         MIDI music in Swindon are having a sale for existing customers.
         They are offering the following Voice Crystal cards for Roland 
         synths:- 
         
              D50 RAM cards 1-5             47.00 pounds
              D10/D20/D110 RAM cards 1-5    47.00 pounds
              M256D blank RAM card          43.95 pounds
    
         I'm thinking about getting a blank RAM card anyway, and this 
         gives me the opportunity to pick up some extra voices for very 
         little more.
    
         Has anyone heard any of these?  Are they any good?  Which one 
         would be best for live MOR (thats GB for you folks in the US) 
         work in a duo? - always assuming I can decide whether I want more 
         sounds for the D50 or for the D110!
    
         Alex
    

    I thought that what we needed here was another inane discussion where
    everyone could come out with some suitably righteous opinions on the
    state of the musical universe  8^)  8^)

    Actually, I picked up the latest EM yesterday and noticed that the
    classified ads section was kinda small.  Now, the last ish I bought was
    probably in February or thereabouts, but it had more ads in general and
    more patch/software ads in particular.

    So I'm looking through these ads and wondering, "Where are the patches
    for the new synths?".  I mean things like the D-70, WaveStation,
    T1/2/3, SQ-1/2, Waldorf, SY22/55/77 etc., all machines that have been
    out a year or so.  I did notice that Voice Crystal was advertising
    patches for these, but the usual pile of third party patch houses
    weren't offering stuff for anything more recent than the M1, and no
    new patch editors either.  

    Is the third party segment getting into trouble or something?  I know
    it must be tough to have to lay out the $$ for a new box just to write
    patches for it, and you're gambling that the box will be a hit and make
    you some dough.  Not to mention that you have to write your own editing
    SW or else punch buttons like crazy on the front panel until someone
    else markets an editor.

    Of course, from the user's perspective, as the newer boxes are getting
    more arcane to program, the need for third party support is getting
    greater. Example: in the Transoniq Hacker magazine, they publish
    patches for ESQ-1 and VFX synths every month.  They can get *four*
    ESQ-1 patch sheets onto a page and only *one* VFX patch sheet into the
    same space!  And what's the first words out of the mouth of a new synth
    user? "Hey, anyone know where I can get a decent piano patch for the
    SX-666 Turbo Mk III?"

    So I'm wondering whether it's just the economic malaise killing off the
    little guys or whether it's going to be a growing trend to *have to* grow
    your own patches, particularly when most synth manufacturers only want
    to sell you patches on $100 + RAM cards instead of $25 diskettes, and
    then it's the same old tired assortments of MiniMoog Bass, tine piano
    and Fantasy.

    Comments?  Opinions?  Ratholes?

						Brian

OK, Brian, I'll dive in- not sure if this will be controversial enough for you,
though...

Maybe the problem is a replay of the software bugaboo (insert dramatic pause):

	PATCH PIRACY!

I haven't purchased any patches, myself, but I have some which were included
with a PD editor/librarian, and I can't claim that I know they're "clean." Do
users swap purchased patches like kids trade records to tape? (Disclaimer: I'm
referring to earlier notes, this opinion is not necessarily that of the
management, etcetera...)

Well, Brian, I've done my bit, you're on your own...

Cheers,
	Bob

    C'mon, who (except for a handfull of us nerds) actually programs their
    synths? 
    
    I think the problem lies more in apathy. If the public will fall all
    over itself for a record with DX Rhodes, LA Fantasia, and Moog bass
    why should anyone want something else? "All the REALLY HIP sounds are
    right in this box! And if you need others, you buy another box!"
    
    Edd

    Well, I'll probably never buy patches for the D70.  Why?  Because it's
    pitifully easy to create my own.  No kidding!  I actually create my own
    patches and I do it on a per-song basis.  It's that easy (once you
    learn it).  I do plan on buying PCM cards for the D70 when some decent
    ones come out.
    
    Steve

    
    re: .36 - Mr. Edd is quite obviously right - anyone hear any of the
    new Bob Seger on the radio? Bad presets from hell abound! I also
    heard some fella do a song with Bonnie Raitt and it featured a notably
    poor sound i've heard emitted from VFX's.  
    
    	bob
    

    Re: .35
    
    Yeah, users *do* swap patches.  I have received commercial patches in
    disk swapping....now I didn't *ask* for them, mind you, they were just
    there.  
    
    I don't give away patches *I've* paid for, though...
    
    Of course, except for Steve Sherman, noone in here has bought any of
    the latest wunderboxen for awhile, so maybe noone's noticed that the
    patch sources are drying up?
    
    						Brian

Another problem is probably the shrinking market per machine/patch architecture.

If there were as many programming languages as there are distinct patch-creation
"languages," each one specific to its own machine, I daresay there'd be a
trend towards end-user programming. With new techno-shock occurring every day,
a given set of patches probably has too short a marketing "half-life" to be
worth the required advertising, production overhead, and such. (This is a SWAG
from one not directly experienced in such matters, so take if for what it's
worth.)

Bob

I'll take a WAG...

 What if the market that previously looked for different sounds
 has moved to samplers?  I see lots of ads for CDs and tapes saying,
 "Get all of those great analog sounds". This could mean that the
 general synth users are satisfied with their current sounds, for the
 reasons already mentioned, and the thrill seekers go for the samplers.

 Also, magazines and newspapers in general are in trouble. They can't find 
 advertisers as easiliy as they used to. I suspect figuring that one 
 out is for another note.

    I'll bet the real reason is even simpler.  During the gay 80's, every
    yuppie and his well-groomed dog got into buying synth gear so that s/he
    could sound just like the people on the radio.  Kind of like the 70's
    when everyone did "air guitar" to look like rock stars.  Or, the 60's
    when everyone actually bought real guitars so they could play "Stairway
    to Heaven".  'Course this is all speculation since I've never played
    guitar, not even "air guitar".  Anyway, with all these yuppies suddenly
    having to pay off their bills and since the synth was just gathering
    dust anyway, nobody has money for new synths, let alone new patches.
    So, the real reason is that the home market (probably where most synth
    equipment was sold) dried up.  WAG, but no wilder than other reasons I
    s'pose.  
    
    Of course, those of us REAL talent are still pouring our sheckels down
    the MIDIhole ...  ;^)
    
    Steve

nit: Stairwaty to Heaven came out in like '71 or '72...people in the '60's 
bought guitars to play innagoddadavida and other incomprehensible stuff...


dbii

    totally ratholed - I agree with Steve, except that in my view folks
    aren't buying new gear, thus not buying patches for it/tme, because
    there's very little chance of actually generating any revenue from said
    gear/patches.
    
    Just picked up Vangelis' DIRECT album - filled with that awful Emulator
    II "lead 'guitar'" sample - totally unmodified.. at least when I used
    it I altered the preset to 'mono' mode (don't play the attack in legato
    mode) and ran it thru a Rockman
    
    karl