Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    	My experience with Casio (and their "Digital Guitar" anyway)
    is that they leave out too much of the original instrument in their
    replications. For example, on this one, they may give you breath
    control over the volume, but I'd bet you cant modulate the pitch
    with your mouth the way a real sax player does. A limitation such
    as this renders the instrument "unplayable" by those versed in the
    real thing.
    	Their guitar was guilty of producing the same timbre and envelope
    without regard to *how* the strings were struck. Toot - Toot! The
    same stupid sound every time...
    
    	Joe Jas
    

 I read somewhere, maybe the computer music journal, about a sax.
    It had mouthpiece pitch bending, breath control, the works.
    Can't remember where I saw it...
    Tom

    Hey, this sounds good to me!  I can add pitch bending later on the
    sequencer.  I would find it easier to use a wind controller than
    a keyboard for solo lines.  And, for $200 I'd go for it!  I just
    hope it isn't built too cheap (pipe dream) or that I'll be able
    to service it when it breaks (ha!).  Otherwise, the Y-word wind
    controller sure looks good.  But, I got no bucks ...
    
    Steve

    "Digital tonal purity" indeed!  That's the *last* thing I want from
    a sax.  Volume modulation - BFD.  After the fact pitch bending -
    BFD.  What about tonal modulation - making the thing growl.  I've
    got "digitally pure" saxes in all my synths already.  What do I
    need to learn another controller for?
    
    len.
    

    Yuk. What an 'orrible thought, a digital sax. As previous notes
    comment, there is a world of difference between pitch bend and the
    incredible multitude of effects a sax player can eke out of a reed.
    Then there is the tonal variation, or 'soul' that comes from the
    interaction between the player and the instrument. Both become one
    system, the sound coming as much from the lungs and nasal passages
    of the player as the instrument itself. It would take a bloody big
    computer to control all the variables that a sax player does naturally.
    
    Pitch bend goes only so far. How about glissando effects, or vibrato
    (diffent types of vibrato to match the occasion), or the 'breathy'
    sound that comes from delicate pressure on the reed and fine breath
    control? For any practical recording I can imagine, one would need
    about a hundred different voices, switching every bar or so, just
    to sound anything like the real thing.
                                                          
    Then, as Len says, there is the good old 'growl' that comes from
    singing into the sax. A hundred different varieties!
    
    That goes for any other orchestral instrument, really.
    
    However.....
    
    I did hear of a model of sax that had a transducer built in and
    a MIDI output when I was back in the UK a couple of years ago. That
    would be useful to control a synth, so that a sax player could
    effectively play a keyboard, in a similar way to a guitar synth
    player. I'd be interested to hear about a source for that little
    device.
                                      
    Tally-ho,
    
    Ray.

    	I don't know about you, but....
    
    	I would have liked to see how well it can be used. Since I don't
    	play a SAX anymore (I did in High School) But play both guitar
    	and keyboards, Getting something that's reasonably close would
    	be quite nice. I tried the Casio Midi Guitar & other than the
    	lousy on board drums, I think that it's really quite nice. 
    	Suzuki has a Midi Guitar controller (I want to try one of those
    	also) & after playing the Casio, I'm sure that I want one of
    	these types of monsters. In the case of the Digital Sax, I
    	like the Idea (I've been trying to find out how to get a fair
    	Backgroud Sax sound out of my CZ-101 of years). As with any
    	variation on an instrument, I don't expect it to be exactly
    	the same as the original, any more than I would expect someone
    	to put a vibrato on a Stradavarious Violin (I can get a similar
    	effect with Pitch bend & don't ruin a classic instrument).
    
    	When I listen to music these days, I'd say 50% of the current
    	stuff on MTV has lots of non-real (synthesized) instruments.
    	The force is the creator of the music, and not necessarily
    	the technology.
    
    			Jens Moller - Rockin' in Colorado Springs
    

    re: .4 and .5
    <small flame...pilot light on>
        
    	As the not-so-proud owner of the DH-100 I am unable to refute
    your comments totally but... the DH-100 is fun. No, it absolutely
    will *not* replace a real sax but for a keyboard player such as
    myself it is great to have breath control anything! I can get far
    more dynamic control out of a the DH-100 that I can out of my
    keyboards. Tonal control? c'mon it's only a $199 toy! :-} You get
    what you pay for (sometimes). You want more control? Buy a Yamaha
    WX7 for $999 or so. You want better sounds, run the controller through
    a better synth! Still not satisfied? Stay with what you have now.
    Don't rank out a Hyndai because it can't beat a Lotus.
    
    <pilot light off ;-} >
    
    		Mark
    

    
    Well, I bought one at Service Merchandise for $124. (tax included).
    
    Lots of fun.
    
    A couple of points. The MIDI implementation is bare-bones but it
    is something you can work with.
    
    MIDI implementation:
    
    	Channel 1 only, OMNI off, POLY on (mode 3), MONO output.
    
    	Outputs key on, off, velocity. Also prog change 1-5. 
    
    	There is one other controller number available, I forgot which
    one it is, it is NOT pitch bend.
    
    	You cannot change the key map, but transpose works over the
    MIDI.
    
    	Fascinating way of changing parameters. Hold down different
    keys when powering up. Argh.
    
    
    
    Conclusions? I like it, it is worth the money. The Casio fingering
    system is wierd to my Boehm-trained fingers. I like the extra key
    they give you for the accidentals, it makes some of the tougher
    fingerings considerably easier. It is expressive, which I like.
    The "portamento" is useless, it doesn't transmit over MIDI. The
    location of the spit vent guarantees that you get spit on your shirt,
    lap, or couch, and it doesn't like to be played for hours at a time,
    it seems to need a little time to dry out (the transducer apparently
    can clog). The octave key is backwards, depressing it makes your
    tone go UP an octave... Argh�. But the range is fantastic, and the
    volume is consistent over the entire range, unlike my recorders
    which get kind of shrill when I jump octaves. 
    
    The ultimate perversion...loading the tenor sax sample into the
    EPS and playing it controlled from the DH-100. Bzzt.
    
    /pjh

    
    For those who are easily swayed by artist endorsements, Kenny G
    is now featured in a full page ad in ROLLING STONE endorsing the
    DH-100....he even advocates it as a great instrument for those
    "starting out" on woodwinds.....gimme a break.
    
    

Well now that I know the pro version dh200 is available for $39,
I'm glad I didn't spring for the consumer version which I saw
in December at BJ's warehouse in Salem N.H for $39, and saw advertised
at Caldor's (stores around New England?) for $39.  ;-) 

Could someone explain the MIDI implementation for someone not
completely versed in it. That is, what exactly can be done assuming
flexible SGU, software sequencer, creative patch control etc.

I understand "channel 1 only" which wouldn't be a major problem
but don't know the practical benifits/limitations of:
>OMNI off, POLY on (mode 3), MONO output.
Outputs key on, off, velocity. Also prog change 1-5
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>one other controller number available I forgot which
>    one it is, it is NOT pitch bend.

Is there another controller number to play with or not?
     
If there is velocity AND some other controller number couldn't
I map the controller changes to some expressive changes in my VFX 
patches? Would I be able to change characteristics with the VFX 
footpedal or other controller (assuming three or more hands %-} )?


If it is really only velocity and program change from power up only,
this sounds pretty limited. Otherwise, it sounds interesting.

Thanks for any insights.
Dave

Well, I ordered mine today, so I can fill you in first-hand in ten business days
or so. Mebbe someone will turn up in the meantime who already has one, though I
doubt it. This version wasn't mass-retailed, since it was supposed to be a "pro"
version (haha, I *still* can't get over that one!). I can just guess how many
were sold through "pro" outlets.

Program change messages indicate a change in setup, in other words, the patch
you're using. Since this thing is MIDI-out only, I'd guess a message is sent
when you switch to a different "voice." If the original note on its MIDI
implementation was correct, then there is still one controller message sent that
is unidentified. However, I'd be relatively unsurprised to find out that
velocity is it.

Be that as it may, breath pressure translating into velocity can be useful. On
my K1-II, for instance, I can layer sounds which are only triggered above (or
below) a certain velocity threshold, allowing for at least some timbre control.
Just use a "smooth" sax voice below the threshold, a "rauchy" one above. Maybe
it won't work as well as I think, who knows. If you've got a VFX, sure, you
should be able to do something neat with an extra controller; I don't know what
you're "controller-mapping" capabilities are, there might be a lot you can do
just with velocity.

If nothing else, I got me an electronic sax-flute-recorder-type-thingy, and I
expect to enjoy the heck out of it. Sure, I *could* play monophonic windy-style
riffs on the keyboard, but I *don't*- the mindset is different when you're in
keyboard mode, at least mine is.

    The DH-100 does send velocity information with the NOTE-ON messages.
    It also sends CHANNEL-PRESSURE, which is not a controller but a class
    of MIDI message in its own right.  To get real expressive wind sounds,
    your external SGU must respond to this.
    
    It sends program changes when you hit the "tone" button.  It cycles
    through 5 programs.
    
    There is also a portamento key, but I can't remember if that key sends
    porto on/off messages.
    
    The other modifier key is a "sharp" key.  Rather than all the goofy
    fingerings you have to remember on a real recorder or sax to get the
    black notes, you just hit this thing with your little finger and it
    goes up a half step.
    
    Oh yeah - and your left thumb has an octave-up key.
    
    You have to tongue pretty carefully and watch your finger transitions,
    otherwise the thing glitches like crazy.  If you shift slowly from one
    fingering to another, which on a real sax might give you some kind of
    slur, on this thing as soon as it sees the switches change it jumps,
    yielding various squeak noises.   The mouthpiece is analog, but the
    keys are digital, which takes some getting used to.
    
    With an appropriate SGU you can do some pretty amazing things with it.
    

Hey, thanks! Now I can really drool while I wait for my package to arrive!

I didn't really think Casio would have been slick enough to put in channel
pressure, but I'm not complaining. My Kawai *can* respond to it, and it
definitely opens up a lot more possibilities.

Someone asked about differences between the 100 and 200. Like I said in the
"hot quote" note, the only ones I know about are color and (iff I remember
correctly), maybe "sturdier" keys. For $39.99, I'll manage somehow even if it's
just the color!

Now if they just decide to close out and liquidate the VFX/SD...gee, how does
$59.95 sound?

Cheers,
	Bob

    Can someone get me DAMARK's fax number and/or non-800 phone number, please.
    
    Me too!
    
    -Pasi-

re .-1
>    Can someone get me DAMARK's fax number and/or non-800 phone number, please.
    
>    Me too!


Me also. At that price I'd like to try & get them to ship it to England.

I've already got a keyboard, a MIDI guitar and a PC sequencer so what I really
need is a wind controller. Are there any other ways that I can generate a MIDI
data stream I could lust for? 

Nigel

OK, folks- Damark does have a fax number, no non-800 phone number, BUT-
they cannot ship outside the US. I guess they must not be licensed exporters
or somesuch. If you alien-type folks want to get in on the action, you've got to
persuade a co-conspirator stateside to order your goody and ship it to you.
Of course, that may make the issue of a fax number moot, but here it is anyway:

(612)531-0281

    Re .16, .17:
    
    I'm heading to JOE (Jolly Old England) in mid-February, and could pack
    a Casio or two in the extra suitcase designated for hauling back gifts.
    This is purely a fun trip, and my wife and I are not going to lock down
    an itinerary, so this is your chance to entertain us, as well! I'm
    tolerable in short doses, and my wife's presence raises our average
    charm about 100%. I'm thinking about ordering one of these myself, so I
    could make it a two-fer or three-fer, and get recompensed on arrival.
    
    - Hoyt

The milk of human kindness flows yet- between your personal purchase and your
generous offer, you'll be both entitled to and able to blow your own horn!
(nyuk, nyuk)

Cheers,
	Bob

re .18

Hoyt,

I'm going to take you up on this. It would be nice to save on the shipping 
charges.

I'll contact you off-line.

Nigel

           <<< Note 1141.16 by MALLET::BARKER "Pretty Damn Cosmic" >>>
> .. Are there any other ways that I can generate a MIDI
>data stream I could lust for? 

    Well, I just succumbed to a percussion controller/SGU..
    
    karl

Well, I got the little beastie Friday via UPS. Here's a brief rundown:

MIDI stuff: (*including* portamento!)

	- default send channel 1 (no change ability)

	- default mode 3 (Omni off, poly); modes 1-4 sent

	- MIDI note range 36-96 with Casio-proprietary fingering, 48-96 with
	"recorder" fingering

	- Velocity 1-127 sent as "note on," velocity 0 sent as "note-off"

	- channel aftertouch

	- portamento on/off

	- program change (range 0-5)

Comments on "feel" and sound:

I'm not a true "wind man," but have significant experience with recorder and
other early woodwinds, so interpret my comments accordingly. Physically, the
keys don't seem as sturdy a those of a modern woodwind, but they should be OK
if you don't abuse them. As a recorder player, it feels really weird to have the
notes respond to your fingering "digitally;" covering and/or uncovering a
physical hole is a definitely analog event, with a lot more forgiveness than
a hard "on or off" state. A definite incentive to get more precise with the old
fingers, but obviously a drawback compared to neat slides on the "real thing."

Having breath control over volume (via velocity and aftertouch) for 40 bucks is
a steal, IMHO. Of course, if you want it in a *big* way and want to make the
investment, I'm sure you could do a lot better. Also, there's definitely a
different mindset when you are playing a physical "interface" which resembles
a different acoustic instrument, e.g. keyboard, wind, plucked, or bowed
instruments. It's not the same no matter how good you are at "translating"
foreign idioms to the keyboard. In other words, I just plain *enjoyed* playing
"wind MIDI" with this thing. And yes, the novelty of blowing an organ patch
with it was hilarious.

The preset sounds are nothing to write home about in comparison to those
available on almost any current synth, but I think they're more than usable.
No, *none* of the imitations are even halfway believable, but just as sounds
they seem to be of decent quality. The closest imitation is the sax voice, IMHO.

BTW, the "recorder" fingering isn't really- at least, not what's become a
"standard" as these things go. If you have played a lot of recorder, though,
you're probably used to registering the minor fingering quirks which are common
to "authentic" early instruments and compensating for them, so it shouldn;t be
a great drawback. I haven't really looked seriously at the Casio-proprietary
fingering, but I find it hard to believe that it would be worth learning a
system of no use on any other instrument! FWIW, though, it supposedly offers
a full-octave range using only three fingers- kind of tempting to play the DH200
with one hand and a keyboard with the other!

Anyway, *my* summary is that it is *great* fun to play with and also is more than
useful for "serious" application as well. Forty bucks well spent.

Cheers,
	Bob

  I agree Bob, I just got my DH-200 from Damark yesterday and I can't
  remember the last time I got that much fun for $40!  (We'll leave
  Amsterdam out of this, shall we?!)  I just sat and played it for 3
  hours straight.  I've never played a wind instrument before (besides
  clarinet when I was like 7-8)  I too wanted to avoid a 'propreitary'
  fingering, but I found the Casio fingering to be SO much easier to learn.

  I was "impressed" I guess you could say by the built-in sounds, but
  still comparatively a toy compared to "modern" SGUs.  I sort of liked
  the clarinet tone.  I plugged this baby into my U-220 though and look out!
  I couldn't believe it.  The sames sounds I've been hearing for almost a
  year now when played from my keyboard just sounded so much better when
  played from the DH-200.  I know it's the exact same sounds, 
  but psychologically they seem "better" now.  It's weird, what I would
  normally consider "hum drum/unimpressive", standing there just striking
  one note at a time on my MIDI controller, just "comes alive" when I do
  it from the DH-200.  This thing has definite possibilities for live use,
  I just gotta get the fingering down.  For $40 I've been thinking about
  buying another, to keep one at home, one at band practice, and then I'd
  have a spare for gigs.

  I've recently been dabling in playing electric guitar too, and I think
  standing/walking around with the instrument just adds a vital component
  for live use.  I have a Y-word KX5 strap-on keyboard controller, but I
  never really got used to using it.  Maybe it's time to investigate that
  again as well.  Hey....!  Wireless MIDI and the DH-200, yeah that's the
  ticket!

  For those interested, here's a synopsis of the Casio fingering...

  As Bob mentioned you get an octave (actually 6 out of 7 notes) from
  3 fingers by the following combinations on the lower section:

  C	D	E	G	A	B	* closed
  *	*	*	o	o	o	o open
  *	*	o	o	*	*
  *	o	o	*	*	o

  You'll notice that there's no "F", this is accomplished by playing "E"
  while holding down the "sharp" key, explained below:

  The top section uses four keys in the following fashion:

  *	Lower by an octave	(Pressing both the top two keys raises
  *	Raise by an octave	 by two octaves)
  *	Raise by a semi-tone
  *	Lower by a semi-tone

  (Personally I think Lower,Raise,Lower,Raise would have been easier to
   remember than Lower,Raise,Raise,Lower, oh well)

  The casio fingering has a couple advantages, it's easier to learn,
  especially for non-wind instrument players and it gives you an
  expanded range over the recorder fingering.  Being that I have no
  desire to learn how to play a real wind instrument, I guess I don't
  really mind learning the proprietary fingering.  (Until another controller
  comes along with a different fingering!!)

-Tom

  Slight faux-pas on my part on the Casio finger I was describing in my
  previous note--  it IS possible to get all the notes of the scale with
  the three lower keys.  My previous note said there was no 'F', you had
  to sharp an 'E'.  But there is an 'F'-- holding down keys 1 and 3, leaving
  key 2 open.

  The fingering chart is a little confusing to look at since some notes
  have multiple fingering to acheive the same note.  (This makes sense, to
  get a 'C sharp', you could sharp a 'C' or flat a 'D'.  With the recorder
  fingering there's sometimes more than two fingerings for the same note.)

  I like it even better now!

-TR

I got mine too.

I have one bitch, though. When I turn it off it seems to send a spurious 
note-on to my ESQ, leaving the note hanging.  Unplugging the midi-cable first
fixes that.  I wish there was a "panic button" on the ESQ-1.


Wow does that thing send a lot of data fast.  I filled up my remaining 
sequencer memory in about 5 seconds when recording from the DH200.  Too bad
neither the DH200 nor my ESQ can do controller thinning.  I guess I need a 
computer.

I had lots of fun with the channel pressure modifier.  For example, take the
"MINIM" (Mini-Moog) patch that comes with the ESQ1 factory tape, and in the
filter section drop the static filter level way down to 10 or 15.  Then use
pressure to modulate the filter sweep.  

You'll like it; I did.

Re the fingering:

One reason there are multiple fingerings for the "standard recorder mode" is
because they have done a funny thing.

A "real" recorder deals with some chromatics by half-covering a hole.  That
does not work on a digital device.  Both a recorder and a saxaphone do some
chromatics by using the middle finger rather than the index finger.  For example,
an F is played with three left-hand fingers and the index right finger.  F#
is the same left, but middle finger on the right. And finally, a real sax
has lots of extra keys to get chormatics.  The DH100 has only a few keys, but
it can do the "middle finger" stuff ok.  One way they got around the few
keys is to say that the "G# key" (i.e. the one you play with your left-hand
little finger) will actually sharp ANY note.  Since that includes F# which
you normally do with your middle finger, that gives two fingerings for F#, one
the real sax/recorder fingering, and the other one the synthesized F + generic
sharp key fingering.

BTW, I also find that my DH100 puts out lots of stuff when you turn it off.
Don't know what it is!  I was not especially impressed with the SGU in it.
The sax sound is not too bad, I guess, but I didn't think the they "clarinet"
was anything like one.

Burns

Re .26:

On the DH200's recorder fingerings, that isn't the inconsistency I meant. The
only "half-hole" notes which ever occur in practice are the lower c# and d#,
and most modern (i.e., post-baroque) instruments  actually have two distinct
holes instead of one for those fingers.

The trouble is, real recorders obey the imperatives of physics when it comes
to producing harmonics, and the Casio doesn't. F'rinstance, a lot of instruments
will give you a fairly decent d# by closing the lowest hole and opening the
second-lowest- not so the DH-200. Some other examples of "alternate" fingerings
which are usable on almost any recorder don't work on this little guy, either.
Like I said, though, all in all it's a fairly accurate rendering, and anyone
used to adjusting to an individual instrument's quirks shouldn't be too offput.
It's kind of like getting used to playing a tune on pennywhistle when you know
it real well on recorder. Looking at it in this regard, having the Casio
"sharp" key to play with when figuring out a good alternate fingering is just
gravy.

Cheers,
	Bob

	What he said.  ;-).  I may perhaps play an old recorder piece of mine
	on the dh100 at Performance Place in Somerville on June 27,28,29.
	I may just use cassete tapes and video tapes tho.
Tom

>I have one bitch, though. When I turn it off it seems to send a spurious 
>note-on to my ESQ, leaving the note hanging.  Unplugging the midi-cable first
>fixes that.  I wish there was a "panic button" on the ESQ-1.
    
    Not many synths do have "panic buttons" (the Casio VZ-10M module has
    one, though, big, bold and beautiful right on the front panel).  On an
    ESQ-1, it's easy to end stuck notes, just put both hands onto the keys,
    covering at least eight notes and the voice-stealing algorithm will
    kill that stuck note for you.  Better yet, lay the DH-200 down on the
    keys, it oughta cover at least eight of 'em 8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian

  When I first got mine, I noticed that problem with the stuck note, but
  I haven't seen it since...?  I turn mine on and off while connected to
  my U-220 and it seems alright.

  I've only used the aftertouch it generates to control timbre volume on
  the U-220 which works fairly well.  I'll have to try other modulations
  on my Matrix-1000.  Having a CBS (Computer Based Sequencer) is nice for
  thinning continous controller data, I use Performer on the Mac.

-TR

                     <<< Note 1141.30 by MAJTOM::ROBERT >>>
    
>Having a CBS (Computer Based Sequencer)
    
    ooo !  a new acronym !  I'll have to use it at every opportunity..
    
    karl

A friend is interested in one of these.  Does someone have the 800 number?

Thanks,

Burns

Had to dig it out of the "latest hot price quote" note- that's where this
"revival" discussion of the DH100 originated. The distributor is Damark, and the
number is

1-800-729-9000

(I've been staying up *much* too late with mine.)

Cheers,
	Bob

After quietly reading this topic, I ordered and received the DH200 from
Damark.  Hooking the DH200 straight to the Roland D5 was somewhat
unsatisfactory, since the D5 ignores the after-touch information. 
(Blowing harder never did anything useful.)  So - I wrote a program for
the Atari-ST that converts all the after touch information into breath
controller changes, and set the D5 to interpret breath controller as
expression, and...wow.  Pretty convincing for $40.  Now all those years
of clarinet lessons can be used for something.

There are still some patches in the D5 that behave weird - anything with
a sharp attack (piano, plucked things, etc.) acts unpredictable. 
However, the organ sounds, string sounds, woodwind sounds, and brass
sounds can be used very effictively this way.

I experimented for a while with converting the after-touch to volume, but
that was most unsatisfactory.

I haven't yet tried it (probably will tonight), but an article I saw recently
(in EM?) pointed out that one way to get some interesting sounds is by
"layering" instruments the old-fashioned analog way- by mixing the audio
signals! What I thought could be interesting is mixing the output of the
DH200's SGU (not overwhelming in and of itself) with MIDI-triggered output of
whatever you've got it MIDIfied to. Presto- additive synthesis in a truly primal
way! (BTW, a Radio Shack mini-plug to phone plug patch cord works just fine for
grabbing the line-out of the DH200.)

I'm surprised that the D-5 doesn't respect aftertouch- I thought *all* Roland's
keyboards were touch-sensitive. Good thing you can hack, buddy. What *I* wish I
had in an SGU right now is portamento ability...anyway, I'm enjoying the little
sucker immensely. (BUT- Kenny G., Dave Sanborn et al got nothin' to worry about
from me!)

Cheers,
	Bob

      
    re 1141.35
    
      Aftertouch ain't the same animal as touch sensitivity (velocity).
    Roland lower-order D series (D5, D110, D10/20) don't do aftertouch,
    yet are touch-sensitive. 
    
    RichC
    

    You guys are making me sick with all your cheap MIDI toys :-)
    
    Does anybody know if the DH200 has ever been released this side of the
    pond, let alone is available at these kind of prices ?
    
    Has anybody even seen the DH100 for less that �65 ?
    
    Does anybody know what kind of Taxes and other difficulties I'd go
    through if I tried to buy one from the States mail order ?
    
    		Stuart P.

Re .36:

Slip of the fingers- yeah, I realize aftertouch ain't velocity- most I've seen
have both or none, so I sometimes lump 'em. I'm *real* surprised that the lack
of aftertouch goes all the way through the D20!

Re .37:

The distributor that started this resurgence of interest is Damark, a liquidator
who is not licensed for export. So, the good news is, no special taxes; the bad
news is, they can't sell you one. Not to fear, though- someone stateside can
purchase one for you and ship/bring it. Someone offered to perform this service
a while back in either this note or the "hot price quotes" note (where this
new series actually began). Good luck.

Re: sound layering

Way neat-o! I tried mixing the audio out of the DH-200's various "voices" with
various types of K1-II sounds, with some weird and some intriguing results. I
think the best were DH-200 "trumpet" with K1-II trumpet or french horn; DH-200
anything with K1-II "voices," "strings," "personal brass." This was without
tweaking the presets, BTW. The summary opinion, though, is that mixing in the
DH-200's audio with a MIDI-triggered SGU voice has great potential. Side note:
using the effects on the K1-II side is very effective with this setup, as is
using the portamento on the DH-200. Try it with your favorite SGU, you'll like
it!!!

Cheers,
	Bob

RE: 1141.37

 > Does anybody know what kind of Taxes and other difficulties I'd go
 > through if I tried to buy one from the States mail order ?


Stuart,

	The most difficult part will be sourcing the kit in the US for it to be
shipped to the UK. I've done it before and it works, but you run risks on damage,
water damage from condensation, and theft. If the kit is insured at export, then
when it is imported it will have to be checked for it's condition.
	
	You will have to pay VAT, and import duty on the value of the goods in
the UK. This sometimes works in your benefit because most Customs Officers are 
not aware of the instruments true value. With all the exchange rates and 
import duties you still come out on top, especially now because of the high 
Pound against the Dollar. Example: I bought some kit in the US for $400 when the
UK price was 650.00GBP, which converted to $1100.00. Insurance cost me $25.00,
freight charges where about $35.00, VAT 15%, and a 6.4% import duty. This worked
out at 304.00GBP, which is $563.00, but saved myself over 300.00GBP.

	If you can source the kit and arrange the US Export, then I know plenty
people in the Airfreight business who can handle the UK Import for you. Just be
forewarned, this import service could cost you anywhere from 30 to 60 quid and
you will need to be at the airport on arrival. There's a lot of "fiddly" bits
you would have to do, but that can wait until you are ready to do it.


Ciao,

smitho

       I just ordered one of these from Damark.  After adding $6.50 for
       shipping the end cost is $46.50 to me.  If there are noters
       outside the U.S. that want one of these, give me your mailing
       information and I'll find out how much it'll cost to ship to you.
       (If a group of you in the same location can batch your orders,
       that will help reduce the effort expended.)

       After I get the shipping costs I'll email the total to you and
       wait for your international money order to reach my hot little
       hands before I place your order.

       Disclaimer: this is a limited time offer presented out of the
       goodness of my heart and subject to many variables (Damark
       inventory, international shipping considerations, and various
       taxes) beyond my control.  Should I be unable to fulfill your
       order I will return your funds.

       Note: hey mods, if this violates corp. policy, delete it - it's
       not worth any hassles, OK?

I've imported a lot of software into France and a couple of disk drives as
well. France is notorious for its import regulations and I've had no problems
at all. How? The shippers used Federal Express. FE takes care of all the admin
at both ends and invoices you after delivery. They do not add anything on for
their "cut" either. Delivery tended to be within five working days and cost
around $85 for the drives, less for software.

Gavin

>       I just ordered one of these from Damark.  After adding $6.50 for
>       shipping the end cost is $46.50 to me.  If there are noters
>       outside the U.S. that want one of these, give me your mailing
>       information and I'll find out how much it'll cost to ship to you.
>       (If a group of you in the same location can batch your orders,
>       that will help reduce the effort expended.)

Maybe batching is not such a good idea.... Under a certain sum, imports are
duty-free. Also, importing more than one might be considered a *commercial*
import rather than personal, and hence attract different rates of duty and 
attention....

Up to $60 or so is usually tax-free.

Gavin

>Maybe batching is not such a good idea.... Under a certain sum, imports are
>duty-free. Also, importing more than one might be considered a *commercial*
>import rather than personal, and hence attract different rates of duty and 
>attention....

>Up to $60 or so is usually tax-free.

	Gavin, this is useful info.  How could the European Commusic
	Noters use FedX to get their horns?

    I picked up a DH-200 from Damark, mainly to fool around with and let my
    son play, but I was hoping also that I could work it into my MIDI duo.
    I had thought I could use it effectively with my D-110, but as it turns
    out I prefer the built-in sounds and would probably just amplify it if
    I use it live. The reason for this is that the DH-200 doesn't send
    pitch bend signals (portamento), although it does send aftertouch.
    Unfortunately, the D-110 doesn't respond to aftertouch. This gives it a
    very "flat" effect when played through the D-110, whereas the built-in
    synth has what I consider to be a very pleasant and realistic response
    to blowing in the form of variable volume and vibrato. If you hold a
    note and "shake" the sax it has a very audible effect, much like you
    would expect out of a real sax.
    
    I was quite impressed by the way by the overall quality and feel of the
    thing, which is more like a musical instrument than your typical
    "electronic gadget". So for now it's a great musical toy, and if I ever
    get good enough on it I may spring for a synth that responds to
    aftertouch and make some good use of it live.
    
    - Ram

Gee, you sure about the portamento? The MIDI chart says the DH-200 *does* send
it, though I hear that the DH-100 doesn't. I don't have portamento on my synth,
and I haven't monitored the MIDI output, but I presumed that the chart was
correct.

Bob

    There is a portamento key you have to hit.  Portamento is not
    pitch-bend.
    
    You don't need to shake it to get vibrato.  The vibrato kicks in all
    by itself if you hold the note long enough.

    I *know* there's a portamento key. But is there a portamento MIDI
    command? If there is, I don't think the D-110 responds to it. And the
    MIDI chart *I* have says no pitch bend on the DH-200. I'll check it
    again to see if some portamento command is being sent when you press
    the portamento key. I didn't see any indication of such the first time
    I looked.
    
    And yes, I'm quite aware that the vibrato kicks in whether you shake
    the thing or not. What I was commenting on was that the volume and
    vibrato seem to respond to shaking as well. Maybe this is just
    psyochological on my part, but I would guess that what's happening is
    that the vibrato is designed to kick in gradually after a note is
    started, and the aftertouch causes it to sort of kick in and out. By
    blowing a note and shaking the sax you vary the amount of air going
    through the mouthpiece, and that affects the aftertouch - voila!
    Whatever it is, it has a distinctly realistic and very nice feel to it.
    
    - Ram
    

Re .47:

Yup, there is no pitch bend on the DH, neither "local" nor MIDI-sent. Yup, there
*is* a local portamento key, and the MIDI chart *says* that this controller
message (65, I think) is sent over MIDI. This is a simple on/off value, as
opposed to the "current pitch bend setting" used for pitch bend. It just tells
synths which respond to it, "Whenever you get a new note number (pitch), use
your implementation of portamento to "slide" up or down to it." Pitch bend
settings are applied to the current note number's pitch as an "offset" up or
down. (I don't mean to offend, but there seemed to be some confusion in
preceding replies regarding the difference between the two.)

I think that most synths don't respond to portamento, however- at least none of
the common ones that I know of. A note in here somewhere was discussing some
SGUs that do have portamento ability, and they definitely seem to be the
higher-end machines. That's why I didn't bother monitoring the MIDI stream to
check it out- as they say, "It don't matter nohow!" At least, until/unless I get
another SGU which can *use* it!

Given my druthers, I druther have pitch bend any day. I would guess that the
portamento turned out to be easier to implement in a relatively cheap device.
(Not complaining, mind you- I just want everything for almost nothing.) If you
have MIDI mapping capability, it might be interesting to map aftertouch from the
DH-200 to pitch bend on your SGU. That's about the only option, since it's the
only continuous controller message sent by the thing.

I wouldn't worry about whether the effect you observe is psychological or not-
the point is, you like what happens when you do it, so go for it!

BTW, FWIW (love this alphabet soup!), I just got a new Damark catalog, and now
they're advertising the DH-100 for the same price ($39.95) we early birds paid
for the DH-200. It's nice to get a break once in a while!

Cheers,
	Bob

    Re: .47 and .48
    
    CC #65 is indeed portamento on/off.  The Casio CZ and VZ synths will
    respond to it (surprise...8^)  8^) ).  Nice for going from stacatto to
    legato phrasing, like a real woodwind can do.
    
    Some synths that have portmaneto *don't* respond to it, the ESQ-1 for
    example.
    
    						Brian

	Thanks to Hoyt Nelson I now have 3 (yes 3!) DH-200s sitting at home 
right now having survived their flight and one week tour of South West England. 
Only one is mine however, one is for Stuart Poore & the other is for my brother.

	I've only had a brief hour or two to explore the possibilities of this 
beast but am really impressed. I think that it must qualify as the best VFM 
(Value For Money) that I have ever had MIDI-wise.

	I've never even learnt a recorder so have no preconceptions about what 
wind instruments should or shouldn't do but I find all the controls pretty easy 
to understand. I am tempted to go with the patent Casio fingering as it gives a 
greater range and is intuitively easier to understand. All the notes from 3 
fingers then another key raises an octave, another lowers an octave and one 
sharpens the current not. As a non wind player I was surprised at how many 
alternative fingerings there were for each note (both standard & Casio) up to 
five. I'm a guitar player so am used to the notion of finding 4 different ways
of playing the self-same note. 

	The on-board sounds are OK.  I rather like the vibrato that comes on
with a sustained note and yes it really does change sound quality if you shake
the horn as you play. I think that I like the sax the best I suspect that they
suffer rather by being played through the 3 inch speaker in the bell of the
horn. I've got to get a mini-jack convertor cord to hear it through my normal
amplifier setup which I hope will be better. I'll be interested in layering the
on-board sounds with my other synths. It's actually a technique that I use
quite a lot when playing guitar I can mix in analogue sounds as well. 

	I've got a Casio VZ8M (like a VZ1 or VZ10M but only 8 note polyphonic) 
and controlling some of the patches on this that are setup for a wind 
controller gives some absolutely fabulous sounds. There is a very good sax &
oboe plus all the other more synthetic sounds that this SGU excells in. 

	It is I'm sure partly because you get into a different mindset when 
using a breath controller. However there are simply differences in what I can
do with this compared to a keyboard or my MIDI guitar. I can sustain notes 
longer than on the guitar, I can trill and slide which I can't on a keyboard.

	Thanks Hoyt and thanks to whoever posted the original note about the 
$40 clear-out price.

Nigel

    After listening to all the broo-ha-ha, I ordered one myself.  It is loads
of fun.  Being a drummer, I went right away with the proprietary fingering.
I don't know if the recorder fingering makes it less likely to have glitches
when you traverse across octaves, but I'll stick with proprietary anyway.

    The spit valve dumping on the shirt is indeed a reality, and quite a 
surprise when it happens. (My drumsticks never leaked).  Reminds me of that
special feeling you get while holding a baby.

    I also like the Sax sound the best, but really had a great time after
connecting the MIDI jack to my Kurzweil 1000HX.  Bossarebo!   I even brought
it into work last Friday, and played the blues (SUMMERTIME) while compiling
programs.  And I've tried hitting the transpose key, and playing to the 
Television.  CNN News theme isn't too bad, but I'm quite a beginner.  Maybe I
can sit in on some Elemetary School Band classes.  

P.S.  You also get three mouthpieces with this gadget, so your friends can
try it out too without risk of unknown diseases.  But my friends passed after
I showed them the spitvalve location :-)

K.R.
    		

The standard fingering it is very easy to shift octaves (one key), but some
others are hard (high B-C, for example, is hard to do w/o getting a different
note in the middle)

Burns

    I had a chance to try out a DH200 last night (thanks to Ram) and it
    really is both a wonderful and frustrating instrument.
    
    The wonderful is apparent with the internal voices.  They all respond
    nicely to breath control of amplitude and outside of the synthetic
    nature of the sounds themsleves, it is pretty expressive.  
    
    The frustrating is the MIDI stuff.  Maybe I should say the frustration
    is not with Casio but manufacturers who are boneheads about control
    options.  I was using it with a Roland D10, and believe me, that's a
    poor combination.  The Roland does not respond to aftertouch, period,
    so the DH was actually much more difficult to use than the keyboard. 
    The only control was velocity.  Yuck.
    
    You really need a synth with good modulation routings (Ensoniq,
    Oberheim, etc.) to make use of this puppy.  Responding to portamento
    on/off would be helpful too.  Then , you could get the same
    expressiveness out of the outboard SGU that you canget with the
    internal sounds.
    
    You need to modify your patches.  Try using velocity to control a
    "blip" envelope at the onset of the sound (i.e. non-sustaining) then
    use aftertouch to control amplitude directly for the duration of the
    note.  This would allow typical woodwind type phrasing.  
    
    Oh, yeah, Ram was right about shaking the thing to get vibrato.  it
    does work, when you use the built-in speaker.  The vibrato is causing
    by the speaker moving in space.  Plugged into an amp, or driving MIDI,
    you can't get the same effect.
    

    I *love* the DH200 in stand-alone mode, or more frequently, walk-along
    mode. It's so *portable*! A couple evenings ago I walked around the
    neighborhood, dropping off books at the library and buying some
    envelopes at the CVS... and played the DH200 (through earphones!) all
    the while. This may appear slightly odd, but I recall that Sonny
    Rollins used to practice standing on the George Washington Bridge, a
    totally honorable antecedent :).
    
    - Hoyt

    FWIW, Sam's Wholesale (a buyers' club based on WalMart) has the DH-100
    at $29.95.  At that price, I couldn't resist.

    
    
      There is a DH500 available. Don't know much about it. 
    
    
    RichC
    
    

    I read somewhere (Usenet?) that the DH500 supports real saxophone
    fingering.  I don't know if it is otherwise different.  Would be
    interesting to find out.
    
    	Eirikur
    

Brian - The D10 is very similar to the D5 - read back a few notes to
see what I did with the Midi stream to make it work expressively on the
D5.  I can give you the ST program if you want to try it.  All the
expression comes back, and the D5 sounds are a thousand percent more
credible that what comes out of the speaker in the DH200's bell.

    Damark has "discontinued" the DH200, i.e. run out. The DH100 is still
    available.
    
    - Hoyt

    
    I've found another awesome use of the DH...programming drums.  I'm a
    wicked klutz trying to play drums, whether on pads or from a keyboard,
    not to mention trying to step program fills, but I can sing
    "dum-da-dum-bash-pow" with the best of 'em.  Anyway, since the DH
    responds to tonguing, it's possible to enter drum rolls by going
    "too-too-too-too-too" and it's *easy*.  Looks totally bogus blowing
    into a saxophone and hearing drums out of the speakers, but hey, I
    don't do videos.   

    I'm much happier with it now that it's hooked up to some SGUs that know
    about things like aftertouch control of amplitude/filter params and
    portamento on/off. Did some quick edits on my SQ-80 and it looks like I
    should get some killer horn patches happening with no trouble, with the
    ability to get a nice natural "blat" on the attack.  While there is no
    way to control amplitude on my sample player, I got a very natural
    vibrato (although I need practice as the aftertouch mod depth is fixed
    at a very high value), way easier than using the mod wheel.  

    The DH also seems to have that chronic Casio bug with bleeding MIDI
    controller noise into your audio.  The aftertouch data causes the audio
    out of my SQ-80 to make zipper noises.  Cute.  My other SGUs don't seem
    to be affected so far.  

    					            Brian

>    ...since the DH
>    responds to tonguing, it's possible to enter drum rolls by going
>    "too-too-too-too-too" and it's *easy*. 

Geez. First I have to worry about keyboard players pretending to be
drummers, now I find out street walkers may move in on the drum turf...


                                                  ...sorry. couldn't resist.

    Thanks to Hoyt "Bird" Nelson, I had a chance to plug a 200 into my rig
    last night...
    
    The TX81Z seems to be well suited to this beast, as it allows mapping
    AT to BC. Surprise number one, it doesn't send breath control messages.
    The TX also responds quite well to porto messages, AND allows me to
    map BC to pitch so I can "blow" the pitch higher...
    
    Lucky me, I had a whole bank of Sal Galenas' WX-7 patches. A little
    diddling with the range (they were all an octave too high), a little
    controller mapping and I was swinging!
    
    The fingering on the unit just BEGS you to play Ravel's Bolero.
    
    The breath control response curve seems nice and smooth.
    
    Since my DX21 responds to BC and not AT, I found a nice trick. By
    either switching BC off on the 200 or blowing very lightly I could
    trigger the DX and bring in the TZs by just blowing harder. Setting
    the TZ to play chords added some fun.
    
    The Sal Galenas patches worked quite well, but still owe alot to the
    outboard processing Galenas recommends....
    
    Edd

    >Surprise number one, it doesn't send breath control messages.
    
    No surprise, most MIDI boxes don't know WTF breath control is, anyway. 
    Casio knew aftertouch is more common.  Even the big boys (Akai/Steiner,
    Yamaha) let you send aftertouch instead of breath.
    
    No doubt that Y-word boxes are the best to use if wind control is your
    bag.
    
    
    						Brian

Re: .63

Hi Edd !

What Sal Galena patches are you refering to ? Are they in MIDILIB ?
And if yes, how did you get the WX7 patches into your TX81Z ? Are they
compatible ? (I have a V50 that is compatible to TX81Z....).

	thanks 

		Richard

    Sal Galenas is a third party programmer who released a bunch of patches
    created specially for use with the WX-7 wind controller. The WX-7 is
    a controller only, so no patches ever get loaded into it. The patches
    were created for the TX81Z and the DX-7. (Not easily interchangeable.)
    He also made great use of the REV-7 digital effects box.
    
    They are copyrighted patches, so they shouldn't be available in
    MIDI.LIB.
    
    Edd

    This has been pointed out before, but the patches without the FX and FX
    settings are all but worthless.  To get the same results you have to
    get the same equipment and settings.  
    
    Steve

     
     I joined the masses and got a DH100.  It will take some
     time to set up a bunch of patches, but I am impressed so far.
     This new toy is going to force me into really programming the
     VFX, which will, of course, look good on my resume  *-} . 
     
     I also put the headphone out through a Rockman and walked
     around on some famous bridges... ;-)  It sounds decent through 
     headphones with stereo chorus and delay. 
     
     Now I need to get that portmento working in a patch and get
     Brian R. to send me a copy of the old Rolling Stone ad with
     Kenny G. grooving on the Casio ;-) ;-) ;-). 
     
     This notes conference is once again both bad for
     the bank account (made me want this toy) and great support
     when trying to figure out poorly documented MIDI gear.
     And of course now I know that back in `88 Brian saw Kenny the
     G-wiz endorsing Casio DH100s.
     
     Dave
                        

    I succumbed as well, received the DH100, though the DAMARK March  issue
    CLEARLY stated DH200.  Lots of fun.  Haven't MIDI-ed it yet.  As a 
    total novice, I've been trying to learn the recorder fingering, and can
    do a C major scale UP, with certain glitches coming back down.  Can
    also play a couple of moron patterns.  Also I've learned, if I'm going 
    to play for more than 5 minutes, to do so with a towel in my lap.
    
    Do you, the community, think I'd be better served by using the Casio
    fingering ?  
    
    karl, enjoying having keys, drums and sax MIDI controllers

    If you're going to be learning a new fingering, then go for the Casio
    unique, since it gives you more range.  The traditional recorder
    fingering might be useful, though, if you ever decide to use a real
    recorder in your music.
    
    FWIW, I remember a little of the recorder fingering from grade school,
    which makes it a lot tougher to just start over with a new fingering. 
    But every time I hit an octave limit I resolve to learn the Casio
    fingering well enough to switch.

    Don't forget that you can change the DH-100 range with the transpose
    button.  It shifts the notes a half step at a time.  So while you
    might not get the notes you need if you leave it in "C", you might
    be able to make it if you set it to "F".  (Real recorders are either
    C or F.)
    
    Of course if you need lots of range in a single instrument, you are out
    of luck this way.
    
    Since I learned sax fingering in school, I am staying with the recorder
    fingering which is close enough.

    Personally, I didn't see a whole lot of advantage to the Casio
    fingering. I'll admit I'm biased, because I've played a little recorder
    before, though not proficiently. But in my experience the most
    difficult part of any fingering pattern is when you have to make some
    major change, instead of just moving one or two fingers. With the
    recorder fingering this happens when you cross octave boundaries, which
    is what seems to trip everyone up.
    
    From what I saw of the Casio fingering, you use the same fingers of one
    hand to play all of the notes in an octave, and then use the fingers of
    the other hand to select octaves. I suppose there is somewhat less
    finger movement in crossing octave boundaries with this, but probably
    not a whole lot. Frankly, I think the main benefit is that it's easier
    to remember, not that it's easier to play.
    
    Just my opinion.
    
    - Ram

       
       
       
       
       
       There really is an advantage to the Casio fingering - it gives
       you 3.5 octaves versus the 2.x octaves you get with recorder
       fingering.  (Actual numbers are in the Casio documentation)
       
       
       
       
       
       

> <<< Note 1141.15 by EEMELI::PLEINO "Pasi Leino, DECtop Helsinki 879-4451" >>>
>    Can someone get me DAMARK's fax number and/or non-800 phone number, please.
>    Me too!
 
    The above reply was 11-JAN-1991 and I'm happy to tell everybody that 
    I received my DH200 today. A friend of mine in Phoenix shipped the horn
    for me. Cannot wait to actually play it...
       
    -Pasi-
    

Regarding fingering, the big slam against Casio fingering is that you will in
all probability *NEVER USE IT ON ANOTHER INSTRUMENT!* If that's cool by you, I'd
say go for it. On the other hand, with recorder fingering I was able to go
pretty easily from recorder to flute (not Boehm) and pennywhistle, and now to
the Casio horn. This fingering is the basis for modern woodwind (Boehm)
fingering, although it's not identical.

All that said, I s'pose I ought to *try* the Casio fingering. I bypassed it
immediately after scanning the docs, since I could already *play* the thingy.

FWIW, if you *do* know recorder, I think you'll find the biggest pain is
tweaking the old brain cells to "cover" the thumbhole to go up an octave,
instead of t'other way 'round. Sheesh!

Cheers,
	BBob

On the other hand, if you know a clarinet or saxophone, the octave key is no
problem; the trouble is when you reach out to find one of the funny keys that
causes a sharp or flat and it isn't there!

Burns

    Is the DH200 touche sensitive?
    
    Edd

When I first looked at the casio-unique fingering, I thought the three-fingers
on the right hand were like a trumpet fingering, but they're not.  I wonder why?

	Because they're casio-unique!  Using something that already exists
	�*would've been too friendly!

>When I first looked at the casio-unique fingering, I thought the three-fingers
>on the right hand were like a trumpet fingering, but they're not.  
>I wonder why?


The three finger key arrangement is digital plain and simple. Three keys
can produce x notes using y combinations.  Trumpet fingering has to do
with sending air through different lengths of tubing. The different lengths
are optimal for certain note frequency vibrations that are actually determined
by lip vibration. On a trumpet and many brass instruments a key combination
is used for many notes and sometimes different key combinations can be used
for the same note. If you have ever sung in different bathrooms you may get 
the idea. Each bathroom has onoe or more notes (frequencies) at which
nice vibrations & harmonics occur. This freqauency is determined by the
dimensions (etc) of the room. Often one dimension, as in one length
of tubing in a trumpet, allows an arpeggio of notes to sound good. 

I used to play the French horn. One of the first things I learned was
how to play all of the notes with a single key combination. Some notes
would sound great and some would be less than great, but they could all
be on key. That kind of thinking just doesn't match the on off logic 
of digital sound making. If it is a different note you must set different
bits - period.

Disclaimer- Actually Casio probably could have implemented some form
of trumpet fingering by tying it to velocity, but it wouldn't be neat 
and clean.

Fingering a & velocity greater than 50  = note  c2
Fingering a & velocity greater than 80  = note  g2
Fingering a & velocity greater than 100  = note  c3


It isn't an accident that keyboards were the first and are the most
common digital controllers.
.

Dave

re .-1 
I should have thought of that, since I'm a (dormant) brass player myself.

(trombone)
					

    If you use the Casio-invented one-hand fingering, then you could play
    two DHX00s at once, right, like Rahsaan Roland Kirk? Ideally, you'd
    have one DH100 and one DH200, to get the too-hip silver-vs-black look.
    You could do harmony, or rounds (row, row, row your boat with the obo
    patch, way cool!). Or you could get THREE DHs, use rubberbands to hold
    down the keys on two, and blow three at once for a bagpipe effect! The
    next step would be an actual bag with the three DHs plugged in, to
    prevent excessive mouth expansion! Or you could...
    
    - Hoyt

    I've read this entire note, and am unclear about the diff twixt the
    DH100 and -200.
    
    anyone ?  thx
    
    karl

Re .84:

Here we go:

color:			DH100=fake chrome, DH200=flat black
portamento:		DH100 doesn't send MIDI message, DH200 does
keys (reportedly):	DH200 "less flimsy" than DH100 (from a review ages ago)

I do believe that's about it, although I've never had them side by side. If
you're wondering about getting the DH100 now that DH200s are out at Damark, I'd
guess it's still worth $40, BUT I'm glad I have the 200. Maybe another
liquidator has some?

Cheers,
	Bob

    thanks, Bob.  I kinda like my DH100's color, and I have no SGU's that
    respond to portamento anymore.
    
    karl

    I have both (call me Rahsaan Hoyt) and can't perceive any differences
    in the keys. It seems to be color. Since the flat-black surface of the
    DH200 tends to absorb radiation at a higher rate than the silvery
    DH100, it's obvious that under performance conditions, the DH200 would
    be the hotter instrument.
    
    - Hoyt

    
>portamento:		DH100 doesn't send MIDI message, DH200 does
    
    Wrong, me boyo.  The DH100 sends CC#65 just fine.  After mucking with
    both, the only diff seems to be color.  Of course, they may actually
    have improved some of the guts along the way, but the MIDI
    implementations are identical.
    
    						Brian

Re .87, .89:

Okay okay, I I stand stand corrected corrected!

My main info on the 100 and was from the original review in EM way back; maybe
stuff changed, or maybe my gray matter DRAM missed a refresh somewhere along the
line. At any rate, good news for you DH100 folks! Seems like it's still worth
jumping on the ol' bandwagon 'til the 100s are gone too!

Cheers,
	Bob

    So what about this mysterious DH500? Does anyone know anything about
    it? -Chris, who just broke down and ordered a DH100 from Damark.

    
    Anybody got the Damark part number for the DH-100?  I called Saturday
    to order one as a gift and the ditz at Damark couldn't help me, since
    all I had was the DH-200 number...
    

Jest happened to have left my latest Damark catalog in my desk drawer...

Item No. B-470-145599	Price $39.99	S/H $6.50

(Damark phone 1-800-729-9000)

Happy tooting.

Cheers,
	Bob

I was just about to order a DH100 from Damark for my brother's birthday, and I
was crushed to learn that they're totally out of them.

BUT- I recalled seeing DH200s in a Sam Ash catalog, with free gig bags no less,
so I gave them a ring, and they say they've got "loads-" like ten cases or so!

So, soon there'll be one more happy tooter in the world (and I got myself a gig
bag while I was at it). And if anyone else gets the itch, dial 1-800-472-6274.

I love it when a plan comes together....

Cheers,
	Bob

    
    
    
    
    
    
    I got a postcard from Damark confirming this.  What's Sam Ash asking?
    
    
    
    
    
    

Duh. Small detail, eh? The kick is, they're asking

THE SAME PRICE AS DAMARK! WITH THE GIG BAG FOR FREE!

BTW, I had to prod them into selling a gig bag separate - $7.95. What the hey,
my baby needs swaddling clothes...

Oy, such a deal!

Bob

    RATS!  There goes another $50 ...  Will be interesting seeing how this
    thing sounds running a D70 ...
    
    Steve

    
    
    I never would've thought of going to Sam Ash for one of these.  I'd
    ordered one (actually, a second one to give as a gift) and then got a
    Dear John card in the mail from Damark.  So Saturday I called Sammy and
    put another one on the plastic...which started a whole 'nother purchase
    avalanche.  See the Tascam 688 note for a real-life case story of Music
    Toy Syndrome.
    

    Just a few simple questions from a simpleton!!
    
    Does the DH100 come with a neck-strap or anything?
    If not, is there a facility to allow for a strap?
    
    I've been searching for one here in the UK for months...have just
    sourced one in Penzance in Cornwall via my parents...but expensive.
    
    What about the power supply ? Does it use 'standard' sized batteries
    ie. commonly available ones, how long do they last, and how expensive 
    are they?  
    Can I play it through a guitar amplifier ?
    
    Cheers,
    
    tim
    
    

Hi, Tim-

The answers to your questions are basically all "yes." Neckstrap included,
standard batteries (AA, cheap), I *think* I remember the instructions citing a
6-hour continuous playing time, and you *can* play it through a guitar
amplifier. (Qualifier on the last point- the only audio output is the headphone
jack, so you need to adapt a stereo miniplug to the input form needed by the
guitar amp, presumably 1/4" mono phone jack.)

I don't know how "expensive" these little guys are over there- they're being
liquidated in the US, as they've been discontinued for quite some time now.
Here in the states a DH-200 can be had for $39.95, with a free carry sack, from
Sam Ash in NYC; they're not exporters, though, so if you want one from them I
believe you'd have to have someone stateside order it and ship it to you. I
understand from other notes that you also have to pay a VAT (value-added-tax)
to someone somewhere along the line.

Good luck-

Cheers,
	Bob

    Thanks Bob.
    
    They have been discontinued in the UK too, but they're not cheap
    if/when you find one.
    
    DH200 in Oxford still on sale for #179 pounds Sterling
    DH100 in Penzance #75 pounds.
    
    re. mini-plug output....
    Surely it isn't Stereo is it?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Tim

Re .102:

Well, the output is for headphones, which are stereo by definition. I'd
certainly be surprised if the output was anything but "mono times two," of
course- my guess is that either a mono or a stereo miniplug would work, I never
really looked closely at which has what contact points where (as in
tip-ring-sleeve and all that).

Bob

Re .-1 Yes, I seriously doubt it generates stereo.  There is such a thing as a
non-stereo mini-headphone jack (us oldersters remember), and it is still used
on some mono equipment like shortwave receivers, etc.  I don't know what the
DH100 has, though.  I'll try to remember to look.

BTW, so far as I know, the DH100 and 200 differ only by their color.  It is
certainly not worth  the difference in cost that you cited.

Burns

re the way the plugs work:

The shaft is common, the ring in the middle is one channel, the tip is the
other channel.  Typically, a stereo plug will "sort of" work in a mono jack
but not very well.  You usually get the mono program in one ear, though you
may have to fool around a bit moving the plug in and out to find the right place.
(Radio Shack in the US has adaptors).

I would not plug a mono plug into a stereo jack...it will short out one channel.

Burns