Conference napalm::commusic_v1

I went in to the Worcester store tonight and copied the disks. Its turns out
that there were 10 after all. The 10 disks are as follows:

1. Rainy Day - various thunder, showers, and water plops, sound effects
2. Funk Rock - drums, guitar, slap bass, organ, ob polysyn
3. Hollywood FX - explosions, crashes, spaceship sounds, laser blasts, weird
4. Koto 1 - Japanese stringed instruments, mandolin
5. Big Time - big strings, ka bong!, big digital
6. Japanese Flutes1 - every kind of flute sound
7. Comedy Props - whistles, noise makers, funny laughter, vaudeville noises
8. Drivin' - all related car sounds, burglar alarm, cops, horns, burn out, etc.
9. Reverb Drums - rock drum set, lots of reverb
10. Mute Trumpet - harmon mute, wah, plunger, great for big band arrangements

Most of thes are sound effects for movie soundtracks, stage plays, vaudeville,
and in my case, an audio only movie (no video) sound tells the story.

Dave

    Couldn't find anyplace else to post this, so here goes ...

    Just got off the phone with Roland Corp, talking with them about the
    S-330.  According to the tech I talked to, here are the ONLY
    differences between the two units: 

	FEATURE				S-550		S-330
	------------------------------	---------	---------
	SCSI port (for hard disk)	YES		NO
     	Seconds sample time @ 30/15kHz	28.8, 57.6 	14.4, 28.8 �
	List price			$3495		$2295

	� S-330 has same memory as S-50 (unit w/ keyboard)

    Everything else is the same.  That means that the 330 will probably be
    going for around $1500, since the S-550 is going for around $2295.
    Sounds like a good deal.

-b

    
    re: .-1
    
      who quoted the S-550 at $2295????? Best price I've gotten was
    around $2700. Also not included was monitor, etc. The hard disk
    expansion is about $2K itself...
    
      last I heard we wouldn't see the S-330 until July. Is it in the
    States yet somewhere?
    
      /pjh_who_is_looking

RE: .3

    I don't know if you are a USENET user or not, but Jack's Music in New
    Jersey is offering anything at 10% over cost to members of the
    usenet.rec.synth newgroup.  Their number is 201-842-0731; ask for
    Chris.  You may need to use my name, I don't know.

    I didn't ask when the S-330 would be available.  Stupid me.  If you
    want, call Roland yourself at 213-685-5141.  I'm sure they'd give you
    the real story. 

-b

    This unit sounds interesting, but I'm not too familiar with samplers.
    
    I'm very interested in the Roland cause I've heard it, it sounds
    good, and I like the idea of nearly free acess to all those sounds.
    
    But I have some questions:
    
    1) Without the disk, how do I load and save sounds
    
    2) What does the "Seconds sample" time metric measure.  Total sampling
       time?  Longest sample time?  Does this time factor in multi-sampled
       sounds?
     
       Basically, how usable is a 14.4/28.8 second sampler compared
       with a 28.8/57.6 second sampler
    
    3) Is it multi-timbral
    
    4) How many voices?
    
    	db

    
    re: .4
    
      Latest I heard was June... This I heard today (Friday) at lunch.
    I went and got my last quote from the local dealer on a pretty complete
    music workstation setup based on an S-550. I don't think I'll wait
    for the 330 (I could use the 550 _now_)... 
    
    re: .5
    
      Yes, they are both interesting units. I have only seen the same
    picture everyone else has of the 330 (Roland catalog) but since
    I've been pretty intensely interested in the 550 I've had enough
    time on one to address some of these questions:
    
    > without the disk how do I load and save sounds
    
      Via the floppy disk. The 550 can take an 80 meg hard disk. The
    550 and 330 both normally use a 3.5" floppy. Or MIDI, if you have
    the time.
    
    > Basically, how usable is a 14.4/28.8 second sampler compared with
      a 28.8/57.6 second sampler
    
      well, the way they work is that the total elapsed time of all
    samples loaded can be less than or equal to that time value, or
    10 (or 20) samples at a time, whichever exhausts the memory first.
    So you could have one mongo sample or a bunch of smaller ones. How
    much disk activity do you like? The disks are the same size in either
    case.
    
    > Is it multi-timbral
    > How many voices?
    
      Oh, yes. 16 voice, eight separate mixable outputs. Each voice
    is assignable to a MIDI channel, etc. Sickeningly complete MIDI
    implementation. Two-disk OS, one contains OS, once contains utilities,
    and they apparently are in the process of upgrading the OS already.
    Updates are apparently free (according to my local dealer). Each
    voices is monophonic as are the eight outputs. A voice can be made
    stereo by using two voices and panning L+R. Nifty stuff. Uses S-50
    sample library (entire family seems to use the same basic
    architecture). Mouse controlled, monitor is "optional" but looks
    to me to be absolutely essential if you're going to do *anything*
    on this beastie. 
    
      I wannit NOW. I don't WANT to wait a week and a half. Oh well.
    
    /pjh

    More on S-50, S-550, S-330 sampling rates and memory managemant.
    
    On the S-50, memory is divided into 2 banks, Bank A and Bank B.
    Total sampling time depends on the sampling rate, 15K or 30K.
    Each sample can use one of these rates.  Banks can be made up
    of a mixture of samples of both rates.  Each Bank is made up of
    .4 second sections for a total of 16 or 7.2 seconds at 30K, 14.4
    at 15K sampling rate.  If a sample is .25 seconds long at 30K, it 
    still takes up .4 seconds of memory.  If it is 3.37 seconds, it 
    takes up 3.6 seconds or (9) .4 sections at 30K. 
    
    You can have a maximum of 32 samples in memory.  Usually you don't
    use all .4 second samples, but a mixture.  There are a bunch of
    paramters that can be set for each sample (pitch, scaling, envelope,
    loop, start and end points, etc.). 
    
    SUB-TONES - You can also create a new sample using another as raw
    data.  For instance, sampled a 4 second drum beat which had a fill
    at the end.  Then I created sub-tones that made seperate 'samples'
    of the kick drum, snare drum, and snare-tom-kick fill without using
    more memory.  In other words, I created 'parameter' descriptions
    using the original tone's data that had different start and end 
    points and call it a different name.  Sub-tones are in 'bold'
    when displaying memory.  I'm just getting into sub-tones and finding
    it a very powerful feature for conserving memory.
    
    Samples can be combined into 8 'patches' of which 4 can be selected,
    given a MIDI channel and assigned to 1 of 4 outputs.   
    
    In the S-550 rack, I believe 8 patches can be routed this way through 
    the 8 outputs and double the memory for a total of 64 sections of
    memory.  Up to 64 samples and subtones can be created and loaded.
    
    Dave (S-50 owner)

    In note 1578.5 I mentioned a new Roland sequencing program that 
    runs ON the S-50 and S-550.  That is, it turns your sampler into
    a sampler/sequencer ala Ensoniq EPS (only this one has a video
    display).
    
    The program is called SYS-503 for the S-50 and SYS-553 for
    the S-550.
    
    Does anyone have any experience with these programs?  I'm told
    that they are somewhat based on the MC-500 (MK II I would hope).
    
    I've ordered a copy of SYS-553 "on approval".  Which means they're
    gonna give me the manual to look at.  I'll report on what I find,
    but I'm quite anxious to hear about how much it does and stats
    like tracks, editing features, etc.
    
    	db

    Dave, I'd be intrerested to hear what it could do. Only questions
    I have right now are 1. Does it eat up wave memory?  Probably not
    in that it may use the memory set aside for the utilities, but that
    would mean you'd have to save everything if you wanted to use the
    utilities.
    2. How much?
    3. What is the manual like?  ;^)
    
    Ken
    

    Forward:
    
    	This review is not up to my usual standard of reviews.
    	It's mostly ideas I jotted down to assemble into a more
    	coherent review, but I thought I'd share what I have so
    	far.
    
    	Please accept my apologies in advance
    
    OK, I read the manual over the weekend (can't think of a more awful
    way to spend a weekend than reading a Roland manual).
    
    Overall review: not worth the asking price but in certain circumstances
    could be the only acceptable alternative.
    
    The good news is that the manual is one of the better Roland manuals 
    I've read.  The bad news, is that it's still a Roland manual and that
    means it's pretty bad by general standards.  Lots of poorly translated
    japaneese, either a lack of overall form (or at least it wasn't
    obvious to this seasoned Roland reader).
    
    What I can't understand is why the manuals aren't written at least
    a tenth as well as the Roland newsletter.  I find myself reading
    the newsletter and wishing the manuals were written by the same
    guys.  The newsletters are very well written with very informative
    non-assuming articles.
    
    My guess is that the manuals are written in Japan and then translated.
    The newsletters are probably entirely written by "Roland of America".
    
    Anyway, you're all probably tired of me complaining about Roland
    manuals.  A Roland review that says nothing other than that the
    manual sucks is HARDLY "informative".
    
    So, onto the software.
    
    The product is called "Director-S seqwuencer Package for S-550/S-330".
    I believe that the SYS-553 (for S-550) and SYS-333 (for S-330) are
    catalog numbers.  Daddy's wants $225 for it.
    
    The thing comes with a manual (106 pages), 3 floppies and an owner's
    key (used to protect against software piracy).
    
    The three floppies contain, respectively, the system software, "song
    data" for some demos, and "sound data" for sounds used by the demos.
    
    The system software basically extends the normal sampling OS so that
    it does both sequencing and sampling playback.  There are three new
    "modes": PTRN  for pattern (sequence) editing, SONG for song
    editing, and TOOL which does some useful things like time calculation.
    
    The PLAY mode screen has been extended somewhat to include a few
    things like tempo, pattern, etc.   The MENUs have been changed
    however.  They differ mostly by what is displayed on the bottom
    half of the screen:
    
    	Keyboard - gives you a keyboard whose notes turn black when
    		the note is played.  You can select what "parts"
    		(A-H or ALL) the display responds to.
    
    	Patch Disp - gives you the list of available patches (just
    		like on the regular S-550
    
    	Mute play - gives you the ability to mute any particular part
    		(which could also be done in any other mode by turning
    		the LEVEL down or directing the output to an unused port
    		(most of us don't use all 8))
    
    	Tone Map - same as in the EDIT mode (gives you a picture of where
    		the split points of the patches are
    
    The DISK mode has a few extra menus to store and load song and pattern
    data.
    
    The new TOOL mode has three menus "Time Calc" (compute time values),
    "diskcopy", and "Transfer".  I would have thought that the last two
    belong in the DISK mode.  They only have stuff to manage disks.
    
    PTRN mode is sorta where you spend your time creating the "patterns"
    (which nearly everyone else who isn't a drum machine calls "sequences"). 
    It has two menus: "standard" and "microscope".  The former display
    has a table with time scale (rows) and "parts" (columns).  So each
    table element correponds to a "part" at a particular point in the
    pattern.  You get a diamond when there is data for that part at that
    point in the sequence. (excuse me, "pattern").
    
    Microscope mode is what you use to actually edit the data.  You get
    to see 3 events (the manual refers to these as "steps" although it
    seems to correpond directly to a MIDI "event") at a time which to
    my thinking is kinda small.   However, you can "filter" what kind
    of MIDI events (excuse me, "steps") displayed (note values, controller, 
    pgm change, etc.)
    
    OK, I probably should have gone into the organization of a sequence by
    now.  So here goes.
    
    It's not the usual "virtual multi-track machine" emulation type of
    thing where you each sequence is like a section of tape and you have
    "tracks".
    
    The pattern does have "parts" A-H like on the regular system software
    which are "sorta" like tracks.  But you also have a track for
    each internal patch too (any display/selector that can have parts
    A-H can also get a patch number).  Thus you can have more than
    the 16 parts that MIDI "sorta" limits you to.
    
    Although there is this concept of parts and patches, it really doesn't
    support the notion of tracks.  A SYS-553 pattern is essentially one 
    enormous glom of multi-channel MIDI data.   You can perform operations
    and displays on individual parts by using filters and selectors.
    
    For example, you can't erase the "drum track", but you can erase all
    events on the MIDI channel of the drum machine.  Note however, that
    if you normally program your drum machine using several "tracks",
    like having a seperate track for the fills, you're most likely to
    be out of luck.
    
    LIMITS
    
    I can' really understand the description of the capacity for this
    thing.  The word "steps" is seemingly, used to mean two different
    things: an index point in a song, or a MIDI event.
    
    I know you can only have six songs in memory.  It looks like a
    song can be no longer than 35K "steps" or 400 bars.
    
    What really sounds bizarre is that you can't have more than 200
    steps in a pattern.   That sounds ridiculously small if you use
    any controllers AT ALL.  I hope that I just misunderstand it but
    it says that a "step" is "one line on the microscope display" which
    is by all appearences a MIDI event.
    
    Lots of folks have asked if using Director-S takes away much
    memory for sampling.  It looks like the memory is partitioned 
    and that it can NOT use sampler memory (in this case, that may
    be more of a disadvantage than an advantages).
    
    One thing that I liked is this sequencer doesn't have a nasty problem
    that exists on my SQ-80/ESQ-1.
    
    On the SQ-80, there's a problem involving programming tracks with
    an external controller (i.e. NOT using the SQ-80 keyboard which is
    only 66 keys or something like that).
    
    Suppose I want to record a bass track on the SQ that will be played
    by the sampler.  The SQ-80 keys don't extend into the lower range
    of the bass so I'd like to use my RD-300 (88 key) for that.
    
    I plug the RD out into the SQ in.  The output of the SQ-80 sequencer
    goes to MIDI OUT but incoming tracks are not ECHO'd to OUT (only
    thru).  So without doing a merge, you can't both record a track
    with an external sequencer (like an RD *OR* a drum pad) and HEAR
    what the sampler would play (although you could setup an SQ-80
    internal sound just to at least hear the note your playing).  Of
    course, a MERGE box would solve this too.
    
    DIRECTOR-S however, will echo the input to the output (sorta like
    MERGE).
    
    Oh yeah, I mentioned the "owner key".   It's a little device that
    plugs into the external control (mouse, RC-100) socket.  You need
    it to make copies of the system disk.  However, it's not clear that
    you need it to USE copies of the system disk so I don't see it
    as a very effective barrier to piracy.
    
    I've decided that while I would find the microscopic mode to be
    useful, that's about ALL this thing offers over my current means
    of sequencing (SQ-80).   I would LOVE to have that microscopic mode
    but I'm not willing to pay $225 for it.  You could get a much better
    PC-based sequencer for that.  Note also that the EPS COMES with a
    sequencer (although this one is nicer in at least that it uses
    a TV screen).
    
    	db

    Your comments confirm my impression that the different parts of
    Roland just barely talk to one another.  The S-DIRECTOR software
    sounds like a "fuzzy snapshot" of the the S-MRC sequencer software
    for the MC-500.  Just alike enough to fool you, just different enough
    to screw you.
    
    The difference between the RUG newsletter and the manuals is exactly
    as you surmise - the manuals are written in Japan and poorly translated
    while the RUG newsletter is purely local.  But the manuals suffer
    from more than inept translation - they are poorly conceived and
    leave out a *lot* of information that's useful if not necessary.
    
    len.
     

    re: .11
    
    > The DIRECTOR-S software sounds like a "fuzzy snapshot" of the S-MRC
    > sequencer software for the MC-500.
    
    And it's too bad too because if this thing did half of what the
    Mark II did, I'd have paid my $225 and sung all the way home.
    
    	db

    Anyone a fan of reverse crash cymbals?
    
    I love 'em but normally the way you use them is to build up to another
    drum hit (where the reverse ends).
    
    In the past, I've done this by reversing the tape and hitting the
    crash at the point where I want it to END.  
    
    You say, "Dave, why not use the S-550 feature that allows you to
    play a sample back in reverse?".   Ah, you see, the trick is NOT
    getting it to play back in reverse.  The trick is to get it to
    end at the right place. 
    
    Well, you could do this by shifting the MIDI note that starts it
    in the sequence until it ends at the right point.  That works ok,
    but there's an even easier method.  I could kick myself for not
    thinking of it earlier.
    
    Just create a sub-tone for the crash.  You set the playback to reverse.
    You also have to "reverse" the direction of the envelopes if the 
    sample is looped.  Now here's the trick: select a channel (A-H)
    with a voice allocation of 1.
    
    Now hit the reversed crash, when you want it to stop hit another drum
    (typically a snare).   The effect is a crash that builds into a
    snare hit.  Very dramatic, wonderful way to end intros and sub-parts.
    
    	db
    
    

    Aha! so that's how to do it. I was using the trial and error method,
    but from now on yours will be the one I use.
    Thanks db
    
    Ken
    

    
    Re .13  I am also a fan of reversed Hi-Hat (a la Jimi Hendrix's 'Are
    You Experienced'). Generally any reversed percussion sounds are 
    interesting to me.  
    
    P.S. Always loved the backwards guitar leads the Beatles used to do too!
    
    Mike D

    As this was the only not found when making a "DIR/TITLE=550" I'll
    try to enter my question here.
    
    I've just received a Hard Disc interface for my S550. This claims
    to have a SCSI interface connector. Not having the money to buy
    the suggested HD drives I would like to try hooking up something
    else.
    Question: Do you technical wizards know if any of our RDXX drives have
    the SCSI interface so I could (by adding a proper power supply)
    connect it to the S550 HD port.
    
    The upgrade came with a new operating system called HD5-IF. There
    is a very intresting feature in there which I would like to use.
    By setting up a specific MIDI channel on the S550 and sending Patch
    Changes on this channel the S550 will load a complete new Patch
    from the HD including Tones and patch parameters. This gives you
    the possibility to have more patches "on-line". Normally the wave
    memory will be eaten up first preventing you to have more than 
    8-10 patches in memory at one time.
    
    Torbjorn
    

    
    RDxx drives are not SCSI, they are MFM.
    
    The new RZ 23 and RZ55 are SCSI compatible.
    
    CdH
    Storage Systems
    		

                     <<< Note 1128.17 by STROKR::DEHAHN >>>
    
>    RDxx drives are not SCSI, they are MFM.

MFM refers to "modified frequency modulation" which pertains to the electronics
used for information storage/retrieval. The interface for the RD series is
ST-506, which is not compatible with SCSI.
    
dave

Low End Disk Systems    		

So what is the S330?  A cheaper model of the S550?

Does the S550 serve as a "substitute" for the U110 & D20?

I need real piano/harpsichord/vibraphone sounds, which my D550 doesn't have.

I'm very patient on sounds, but I am anxious to finally get set up with a good
working toolkit for MIDI.  I don't wish to spend money on soon-to-be-outmoded
technology (which is why I liquidated all my MIDI stuff a few years ago, when
I wasn't happy with the current state of technology).

I thought the S550 had dipped below $2000 to around $1800, but could be wrong.


				Mark

    I've yet to hear a decent D-50/550 piano, but harpsichord and
    vibes ought to be easy to do.  Just a small matter of programming.
    
    len.
    

    The S330 is sort of "half" a 550. It has 14 seconds of sampling
    time at max sample rate (I forget the frequency) as opposed to 28
    seconds in the 550. They both have the excellent user interface
    but the 330 lacks the SCSI buss that the 550 has and so can't handle
    hard or optical disks stuffed with nice sounds.
    
    The 330 is a real sampler with all the flexibility and restrictions
    that entails, so even with a U110 there's still plenty of room for
    it. I don't intend to sell mine when I hopefully get a Proteus and
    it'll probably stay part of my set-up for a long time.
    
    Ken
    

Hello,

   Does anyone who knows the pin assignments details of S-330/550 external
control connector?  I am trying to connect the non-standard mouse in place
of MU-1 standard mouse.   Because MU-1 costs about 10000yen ($70) in Japan,
It is too absurd to buy.  Incidentally, I am using a tiny (1 inch) monochrome
CRT, as a monitor of S-330.  It was a view finder as a part of Video camera.

   I have been succeeded to connect Left and Right click buttons, but I am
still trying to move an Icon properly. 

   The pin assignments as I found are follows,


   S-550/330 external controls
   (D-subminiature, 9pin, male)           1:+5V               6:GND
     ______________________               2:unknown(1)        7:unknown(2)
    |  5   4   3   2   1   |              3:unknown(1)        8:Right click
     \ O   O   O   O   O  /               4:unknown(1)        9:Left  click
      \  O   O   O   O   /                5:unknown(1)
       \ 9   8   7   6  /        
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        (1): Probably, These pins are encoded signals
                                     to detect the motion of the mouse.

                                     pin 2 <- +4.97V -+
                                     pin 3 <- +4.97V -|
                                     pin 4 <- +4.97V -| 
                                     pin 5 <- +4.97V -+- pin 6 

                                (2): pin 7 <- +0.16V --- pin 6 

I hope your comments or advice.
        
Regards,                       
      

Fukuno.

            <<< DNEAST::SYS$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;2 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2566.0                Roland S-550 and CDROM help                No replies
STKAI2::HALL                                         32 lines   1-FEB-1991 03:47
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Being the owner of a Roland S-550, I now thinking to expand the sampled
    library with (maybe) a CDROM. I have already the SCSI interface
    installed in the sampler.
    
    To my knowledge, there are several CDROM brands available claiming they
    are SCSI and compatible with the S-550. Before going for purchase I
    would like to see if I could benefit.
    
    A couple of questions for you, tecnical wizards;
    
    1. Obviously, you need a new operating system diskette, supporting
    CDROM and also the CD it self. Do you know if there are more than one
    CD for the S-550 available from Roland. What about third parties??
    
    2. Now, if I can get hold of the software, do you think it would be
    possible to attach a RRD40 SCSI CDROM player to the S-550?? Are there any
    standards on CDROM players? 
    
    3. Anyone who has the S-550 equipped with CDROM option?? What do think
    about performance, library content ...
    
    4. I assume there are only samples (tones) on the CD, no ready to
    patches???
    
    Any input on this subject is welcome.
    
    Torbjorn
    
    
    
    
     

    Hi,
    
    Knowing the S-550 doesn't understand the Sample Dump Standard, I'm
    simply asking if you know of any sample editor that can handle the
    S-550 properly??  Preferably running on ATARI ST.
    
    Torbjorn