Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I bought the R50 more as a drum synth than as a drum machine--I
    use my ST to do the sequencing.
    
    With that in mind, I think it sounds great.
    
    The sounds are all clean and well behaved as well as fairly realistic.
    The crash cymbal lasts about 1.2 seconds which is resonably long,
    but still to short to be totally natural.
    
    The muffled bass sample sounds like a sound reproduction system going
    west... It is probably one of the least useful sounds on the machine.
    The tamborine isn't very good either, considering the expression that
    my ear expects from a tamborine. 
    
    I wish that there was a half closed hat sound.  That is one of my
    favorites, but the open and closed pair do fine if you like binary
    high-hat usage.
    
    To my un-cultured ear, the latin stuff all sounds excellent.
    
    The effects and tuning provide enough useful variation that I think
    I will be satisfied with the sonic aspect of the R50 for a while.
    
    There is also an alternate sound ROM (which may only be used in
    place of the sounds which are shipped with the unit,  so what am
    I waiting for?  Just by another R50 and then I can have both).
    
    The interface is surprisingly easy to use considering the tiny display.
    Once I got familiar with it, most tasks are easy.
    
    I particularly like the real time erasure functions which allow
    you to just wipe out one or two strikes of a particular sample while
    listening to a pattern.
    
    The programming seems simple enough, especially since recording
    can be done from an external MIDI device.
    
    In terms of programming and control features, it has everything
    I could imagine, and some things that I couldn't--the ``hey, neat''
    syndrome.
    
    In all, I am very pleased with the machine, and as far as my experience
    so far, I would highly recommend it.
    

    re "1 individual out" - which sound goes to this output?  How is
    this assigned?  Or is there "1 individual out" per sound?
    
    My biggest problem with machines like the 626 and the Alessis is
    the lack of individual outs.  I now routinely EQ and separately
    process at least the bass, snare, toms (*3) and cymbal (*2) outputs
    of my drum machines.  Roland had the right idea when they put onboard
    EQ (programmable!) into the DDR-30.
    
    len.
     

    You can pick one of the 24 samples to go to THE individual out jack.
    That means you can apply an effect to only one sound (which should
    this be?  Snare?  Bass?  Cymbal?)).
    
    Since the voices are dynamically assigned, you can't pull the 505
    trick and just add some extra jacks...
    
    I'm still wondering if sending a sample to the individual jack turns
    it off in the mix or not, but I am not curious enough to repatch
    and find out at this point.
    
    
    Steph   
    

    
    Re -2
    
    In terms of the ultimate affordable drum machine how's this ?
    
    You may have seen my reference to a company called CHEETAH who seem
    intent on undercutting everybody in the MIDI market in the U.K.
    They have just announced a drum machine the Ad reads as follows.
    
    CHEETAH MD8 Digital Drum Machine.
    
    Extensive Library of extra sounds.
    Real Time and Step Time Programming
    Seperate Outputs.
    Midi Compatible.
    INterchangable Sounds
    User Friendly ? 2 Line Display.
    Pad Bus for connection to Cheetah Electronic Drum Kit
    16 song capacity.
    
    All for 139 pounds. The Pad Kit costs 159 pounds.
    
    I haven't heard or seen one yet. Perhaps they don't exists whic
    at least puts them on a Par with the alessis machine !
    
    					Paul.

Len, if you have more than two individual outputs, you'll have to go out
and buy some more SRVs (getting itchy, are ya?)

I know, I know.  You can go to tape and then add FX later...

Todd.

    	The real nice thing I liked about the R-50 was its ease-of-use.
    I realize this is a much overused phrase, but I found the R-50 to
    be one of the few MIDI devices (let alone Drum machines) that I
    could get to work, in the 2-3 minutes before the salesperson descended
    on me!  And once I got it home, about the only thing that I needed
    the manual to explain was the intricacies of step editing.
    
    	I would also agree with Steph's assessment of the sounds being
    for the most part on target.  The Tambourine does not sound like
    anything I have ever heard, and my feeling is that just when the
    Ride Cymbal starts to sound good, it cuts off, but I haven't heard
    a longer, more realistic Cymbal from Roland or Yamaha. (I believe
    the Korg Cymbal may have been a little longer).  The key here is
    the ability to alter the sounds (volume, tuning, and effects) in
    order to get what you want.  I may even be able to rescue that 
    Tambourine with enough work.  But the others are ready-to-rock.
    
    	I think a whole lot of folks may be a little disappointed with 
    the Alesis unit when it comes out.  I am sure it is not a bad machine, 
    but I don't see how it will survive all of the hype, especially with
    capable units like the R-50 out there.  At the price ($375), I think
    it will be hard to beat.
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
     

    .6 I agree!! I just bought the R50 yesterday and it's great. It
     took me about 5 min to get a good feel for the machine. All the
    sounds a good to my (untrained) ear. Price paid was $349, and for
    that, It's worth it.
    
    Mark

    	re .7
    	If you think this unit is good as it is, try listening to the
    alternate ROM chips with the Orchestral hits, Electric Drums, and
    Bass notes.  WOW!!!  I listened to the Alesis HR-16 the other day,
    and was very impressed, but now, having heard this chip I still
    think that the R-50 is the way to go, AND KAWAI HAS IT NOW!
    
    	Also keep your eye out for a special adapter being made by 
    Drumware which will allow us to mount 2-3 ROM chips inside the R-50
    and then switch between them with an external lever.  Of course,
    you could always just buy three R-50s!!!
    
    Santa Clusters,
    Bill

    re .5 - naw, Todd, the way I see it the SRVs are *obsolete* technology
    and when I can get equally good (and flexible) digital reverbs for
    $200 I'll just buy a bunch more.  For the time being, I get by by
    sharing.
    
    This drum machine situation is getting out of hand the right way.
    Used to be that a decent drum machine was a $1000 investment.  The
    Kawai and the Alesis seem to have pushed the price point down to
    less than $500.  My 707/727 is essentially obsolete now, so I'm
    gonna have to visit my buddies at EUW and check these boxes out.
    
    By the way, I just read a rave review of a "drum machine" that runs
    on the Commodore Amiga for less than $100.  The samples don't have
    bandwidth or bit resolution approaching that of the chip-based
    machines (i.e., about 8KHz and 12 bits at the outside, being
    charitable), so the raving may have been by someone who doesn't
    know what's possible these days, but you can't argue with the price.
    
    len.
    

    	ATTENTION - R-50 Users:
    
    		I must be dumb or something, but I can't figure out
    how to make this thing do a roll.  It doesn't seem clear from the
    manual what I'm supposed to push, and when I'm supposed to push
    it!  Could someone who has one enlighten me?
    
    Duh, 
    Bill                                                    

    Depends on how you define a ``roll''.  (Well, Len, how fast is a
    roll?)
    
    The best you can do is a sequence of 32nd note triplets.  I'm not
    really satisfied with this for an extended roll, but it does sound
    resonable for a-sort-of-grace-note-flam-thingy.  (As you can tell,
    I'm not conversant with the drummerspeak) It certainly doesn't
    sound like the roll that you play before the moron dives twenty
    feet into a shot-glass.  I think that if you enable polyphony on
    the snare voice, it would help, though.
    
    Steph                                  

    Strictly speaking, a roll is anything with more than 3 strokes.
    Well defined groups of notes thrown in at dramatic junctures are
    called fills, and people often mean a more or less continuous thing
    when they say "roll".  Such rolls can be as "open" as 16th notes,
    and I suppose at outrageous tempos even 8th notes.
    
    Rolls can be characterized as "single stroke" or "double stroke".
    This doesn't have to do with the length of the roll, but how it's
    sticked.  A single stroke roll is played with alternating sticks,
    each striking the drumhead once.  A double stroke roll is also
    played with alternating sticks, but each stick is allowed to bounce
    once, so each stick hits the head twice before the other stick hits
    the head.  You can try to get more bounces out of the sticks, but
    this gets marginal, and such rolls are sometimes called "buzz" or
    "crush" rolls and are frowned upon by rudimentalists.      
    
    Steph correctly points out that polyphony on the snare voice will
    help.  That's because the voice truncation typical of most drum
    voice modules becomes most apparent on continuous rolls, which rely
    upon that "hangover" to thicken the sound and define the roll effect.
    
    len.
     

    By no means am I an expert on the R-50 but I agree that the step
    time is the way to go. When I did my first "roll" it was a real
    pain to get it even close to what I wanted. First I recorded 3
    different toms, 1/16th notes useing step time. This sounded very
    mechanicl to me so I did it again but this time I assigned the same
    tom to two pads and changed the level and accent so on pad seemed
    louder than the other. Now I have six pads assigned to three different
    toms and then steped time recorded these trying combinations of
    all the assigned pads. What worked best was to have the first couple
    of hits n the first tom to be the louder pad and then going to the
    softer pad. This was repeated for the next two toms. 
    This all seemed to work fine for the sound that I wanted although
    I could have spent more time on it.
    
    Mark ( a  R-50 owner for about 3 mo. now )

    Not an R-50 application, but I did get a very hot roll from an
    Emax 'drumset' using Performer on the Mac recently.
    
    First I assigned the snare to 3 adjacent keys, nontransposed (no
    pitch shift key-to-key). There is a Performer feature that allows
    one to speed up/slow record/playback down by clicking and holding 
    on either of two little triangle widgets, one <-| for slowing down, 
    and the other |+> for speeding up. 
    
    With the cursor/arrow in the 'slow down' widget, and the mouse 
    on the floor, I began recording at a bit below normal speed, 
    starting a snare 'roll' on the keys, and then pressed
    the mouse button with my toe, thus slowing down the clock speed,
    while simultaneously speeding up my keyboard roll. As I'd set an
    auto punch-out, the roll stopped at the right spot, finishing with
    a cymbal crash. Slowing down the recording clock while speeding
    up my playing gave the roll a real acceleration I couldn't have
    gotten otherwise. Kind of like sped-up motion pictures are filmed
    at a slower speed than usual, which is where I got the idea.

    karl

< Note 1045.14 by CANYON::MOELLER "Back in the Y-life again" >

	Now, don't tell me...  You strapped the cymbals to the insides of your 
knees for the crash...

    
     I bought an R50 over the weekend and am very pleased with it.
     I am pleasanly suprised at how easy it is to operate and how well
     thought out everything seems to be .I heard it side by side with
     the legendary Alesis HR16 and while the Alesis sounded better ,it
     didn't sound 60% or 180 pounds better.
 
     Can anyone give me a list of the alternate sounds for the R50 ? 
    
    Steve