| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
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| 1029.1 | more than you ever wanted to know.. | SALSA::MOELLER | | Sat Nov 28 1987 00:03 | 92 |
| Well, doesn't this sound familiar ! .. I'd like to share the topology
of MY home setup with you.. my motivation was much the same as yours,
I believe. Goal: to have an environment where I can create cassette
albums for the (ahem) new acoustic market using independent distributors.
Parameters: Full MIDI implementation including PC running sequencer
software.. keyboard controller and multiple rack units, piano sounds
a must, multitimbral sampler because I like traditional/realistic
timbres, and an affordable multitimbral rackmount synth module..
MIDI first..
KX88 keyboard controller, Roland MKS-20 Digital Piano (rackmount),
E-Mu Systems' Emax rackmount sampler, Y-word Fb01 rackmount synth
module, Apple Macintosh running both Performer and Opcode, Yamaha
YMC-10 MIDI-to-FSK converter, all in a star topology using a Sonus MIDI
switcher, 2 master in->8 outs.
Audio spaghetti..
Each synth modules' stereo outs into a Furman 40 point (20 pair)
patchbay. If not interrupted, each signal continues on to a
Yamaha KM802 8channel mixer. 3 effects units, each with mono
in/stereo out, old Ibanez Multieffects, Alesis MIDIfex and MIDIverb,
all out of/into KM802 mono effects sends/stereo returns.
Recording gear..
Two nice old Nakamichi cassette dex, 600&1000. Elderly but solid
TEAC 3340, because I have so much material in that format. Mostly
superseded (as a multitrack) by a used Fostex 1/4" 8track, model
A8LR, 15 i.p.s., with builtin Dolby 'C'. As I record only two tracks
at once into the Fostex, the KM802 stereo mixer output eventually
makes its way to the inputs of the Fostex. The Fostex' 8 outs go to
the (you guessed it) patchbay, where, if not interrupted, they go to an
ancient Radio Shack mixer for monitoring only. However when mixing
down to stereo I patch over to the feeds for the KM802 mixer to make
use of the various effects units.
Playback..
Used 70watt per channel Marantz preamp/amp, Dynaudio monitors.
I also have a strange (yes, used) Nakamichi preamp/mixer which allows
me to monitor both the KM802 mixer and the Radio Shack mixer
simultaneously. Why? The Fostex won't allow simultaneous monitoring
of already-recorded trax and new music unless in record mode with
the tape rolling!
Physical layout..
Facing the narrow end of a 10x12 room, speakers on stands in each
corner. KX88 about five feet back, where when I'm sitting down I'm
at the apex of an equilateral triangle. Small table with Macintosh
to my right. The second tier of my Ultimate (tm) keyboard stand
is set low,right above the KX88, and the Yamaha mixer is mounted there.
.. centered between the speakers for mix to stereo ...
To my left is the Peavey road rack, 14 (or 16, I forget) rackspaces
high, with (from bottom) MKS-20 Piano, Marantz amp (had mounts made)
TEAC 10band stereo graphic EQ (had mounts made), Emax rack sampler,
then sitting on the sampler is the Fb01 synth, Sonus MIDI switcher,
and both MIDIxxx units. Then the 1-high patchbay, then the Ibanez
effects unit. To the left of THAT is sort of a recorder high-rise,
with the big Nakamichi cassette in the bottom, Fostex above that,
and the TEAC 3340 on the penthouse floor, resting on a TEAC stereo
Dolby 'B' unit.
So everything is within reach of me on my swivel chair. This is
a SMALL room, but it all fits.. a rack and highrise is the only
way to go. I use headphones most of the time except for mixing to
stereo.
Stereo mixdown is still kind of a puzzle.. remember, my goal is to
create correctly-sequenced stereo master tapes for cassette
duplication...the Nakamichi 1000 is a superb cassette deck
(Dolby 'B' only) but I want every erg possible, so I've been using
the old TEAC Dolby 'B' unit feeding the old TEAC 3340 recording old
stereo only at 15 i.p.s. Seems to make it, and I can splice for
sequence on the master.
So that's it, lots of things unsaid, like the Macintosh-to-Fostex
control loop issue (using the MIDI-FSK converter)... I used USED
equipment wherever possible to keep costs down. The costs are
right in the $10K range total.. But this setup does
everything I could dream of, I have a great piano sound, the best
(to my ears) sampler under $12K, and a small FM multimbral synth
module for reinforcement..
I hope this guided tour has been helpful. Any questions to this
topic or VAXmail. Welcome to COMMUSIC !!!
karl moeller sws
|
| 1029.2 | | SALSA::MOELLER | | Sat Nov 28 1987 00:16 | 23 |
| Boy, I have a lot to say on this! I went back to your topic..
re a separate drum machine.. as you intend to get a sampler and
a multitrack, don't bother.. the sampler will be a dynamite
drummer for you.
re controllable modules.. Roland has a nice series of rackmount
analog synths.. len fehskens is on retainer from Roland, he'll
help you choose.
I alluded to something near the end of the previous reply.. with
a PC sequencer and a multitrack, you can add a $100 device and
multiply your number of synths by eight.. the device, a MIDI-to-FSK
converter, will take the MIDI sync signal your PC emits and convert
it to an audio tone, recorded on (for example) track 8. Then the
unit is switched and it takes the audio FSK tone and converts it
to MIDI sync, which is picked up by your PC, now in 'external sync'
mode.. now the PC is slaved to the 8-track, and you can go nuts.
Of course, if you've REALLY been diving into this conference
you know all this stuff because you read the topic 'That SYNCING
Feeling'..
best.
|
| 1029.3 | My 2� | DYO780::SCHAFER | Resist. | Mon Nov 30 1987 13:25 | 139 |
| Welcome to COMMUSIC.
Many of us have been thru the same thing (see Karl's 2 previous notes)
you're going thru right now. I'll try to give my opinions on a point
by point basis.
RE: computer / software
If you don't already have the IBM (clone) PC, don't bother. Spend the
money on a Macintosh and forget it. There is more MIDI software for
the Mac than for any other computer - you not only have more tools
available, you have more options to choose from (last I heard, there
were something like 15 or 20 pretty big name MAC sequencers
available).
To boot, you'll end up buying a MIDI converter box to allow a PC to
talk MIDI (and vice versa). The one that comes to mind for Miller's
Personal Composer is the Roland MPU, which will cost you about $400.
You'll probably eventually want/need at least the following
capabilities:
SMPTE
Sample Waveform Editing
Additive Synthesis (via sampler)
Heap big powerful sequencer
Patch editors/librarians
Score generation
The MAC is the only machine that can provide top notch versions of all
these various software types. My opinion - buy a MAC.
I own an Atari ST - but only because I can't afford a MAC.
RE: SAMPLER
The MAC and Atari ST have the most (and best [opinion]) sample editors
on the market. Digidesign makes sample editing and additive software
for samplers; their stuff is mostly MAC based, but some is being
ported to the ST.
Enough MAC thumping. There are LOTS of good samplers on the market.
The hottest new one (this morning) seems to be the Ensoniq EPS. Yamaha
is supposed to have a new stereo sampler out as well. Most popular
names include EMax, Roland S-50 (and S-550 for rack mount), and
Prophet 2000/2002 (these are notorious for h/w problems).
Perhaps the two most important considerations when purchasing a
sampler are sound quality (ie word size in bits) and library size (ie
number of "patches" available). Ensoniq and Emu (EMax) probably have
the two largest sound libraries available.
I haven't bought a sampler yet - am waiting until the market settles a
few bits. If I were to buy one now, though, I'd get the Ensoniq EPS.
RE: Synths
There are lots of different decent synths around that produce very
nice sounds.
Yamaha stuff is primarily FM synthesis (using operators and
algorithms), and is not the easiest stuff to program.
Roland is D/A hybrid, using digital controlled oscillators (DCOs) to
produce signals that are munged using analog filtering. Their latest
offerings (D-50, MT-32) use Linear Arithmetic (LA) synthesis to
produce sounds. LA uses partials (aka pieces of sampled instruments)
to create the initial pre-processed signal. Roland stuff is also
somewhat difficult to program (opinion here - sorry, len).
Units like the Ensoniq ESQ-1 and SQ-80 use wavetables (which usually
contain one cycle of a particular waveform) to create sounds. ESQ and
SQ-80 (and EPS) all have built-in 8 track sequencers, which are very
nice.
Here is a brief list of names to check out.
YAMAHA DX7-II 16 voice, 6 operator FM synth
TX802 DX7-II in a rack, plus 8 voice polytimbral
TX81Z 8 voice, 6 op, rack mount
ROLAND MKSxx ask len fehskens
D-50 LA synthesis, 16 voice, bi-timbral
ENSONIQ ESQ-1 wavetable synth, 32 waves, 8 voice polytimbral
SQ-80 same as above, but 75 waves, poly-pressure kybd
ESQ-M ESQ-1 in a rack
Programming any of these "new" synths is NOTHING like using the old
Moog modular stuff. The change is/was painful.
RE: Keyboard
Keyboard type(s) depend(s) on your use. Do you primarily intend
studio use? Do you *have* to have a backup keyboard? Would you want
a flaccid (aka synth) board as well as a weighted board? How
important is pitch bend/mod or breath control to you?
In terms of dedicated keyboard controllers, the only decent weighted
board I've ever played is the KX-88. I personally do not like the
feel of Roland's boards - they feel spongy to me. The new Kawai board
is supposed to feel pretty decent, too. Of course, if you get a
synth/sampler with a built in keyboard, the point becomes mute.
As an aside, the (Ensoniq) SQ-80 and EPS both generate polyphonic
pressure sensitivity (neither is weighted). I have also played the
Korg (DSS-1) and think it feels spongy, too. For synth keyboards, the
DX7 (and KX76) play the best in my opinion.
Keyboard feel is perhaps the most subjective aspect of MIDI systems.
Bottom line is to get what feels best to you.
RE: drum machine
Gotta agree with Karl - a decent sampler will be the best drum machine
you'll come across. The SQ-80 is supposed to be a hot drum machine as
well, and has 5 "built in" drum kits.
The best cymbal is still a real cymbal. If you have $$$ left over
after you make out your budget, snag a couple of Zildjians.
RE: FX
If you want to be able to program your fx/reverb and don't care so
much about initial $$$ outlay, try these:
FX
Yamaha SPX-90, Roland DEP-5, lexicon ???
REVERB
Yamaha REV-7, REV-5, Roland SRV2000
If you don't mind presets, get a MIDIverb II. The thing is incredible
for the price.
That's about it. Oh yeah - it would be nice if we all knew your name.
Good choosing!
brad
|
| 1029.4 | | AKOV68::EATOND | | Mon Nov 30 1987 13:58 | 9 |
| re: < Note 1029.3 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Resist." >
Just a quick correction:
> TX81Z 8 voice, 6 op, rack mount
that should read '4 op'. For more info, see topic on the TX81Z.
Dan
|
| 1029.5 | Better look at the SQ-80 before you buy... | CTHULU::YERAZUNIS | Snowstorm Canoeist | Tue Dec 01 1987 18:07 | 21 |
| I got to lay hands on an Ensoniq SQ-80 over the weekend, and it feels a
lot like my ESQ-1 in terms of keyboard "feel". Lightly weighted, not
damped, feels like playing on a spring rather than a piano (i.e. the
way I like it). Good for the warp-speed Bach runs. It's a tad softer
on the bottom of the travel- probably the aftertouch sensor. The
aftertouch is *very* nice, too.
The buttons on the SQ-80 were clearly chosen by someone stuck in
the '60s. Lots of different colors, not pastels. Bright, translucent
colors. Should repel Yuppies and BMWs effectively.
The SQ-80 also have several (eight? ten?) multisampled wavetables
that aren't wavetables. They are "run-once" samples of things like
drums, string attacks, etc. In effect, the SQ-80 is a ROMmed sampler
as well as a synth. (and the ROMmed drum sounds ARE real killer
drums! Better than MD-16 drums, I think. )
The SQ-80's sampler also can do something the ESQ-1's cannot: insert
a bar or two into the middle of a sequence. Ahhhh...
|
| 1029.6 | Well, I have a Fairlight, and.... | SRFSUP::MORRIS | | Tue Dec 01 1987 21:25 | 50 |
| 1) Drum machine -- if you decide to use a sampler, make sure you
have full velocity sensitivity, a great sequencer, and, as
mentioned before, real cymbals. Even when I use my TR626,
I dub in my Paistes. You can get a good crash/ride in a hock
shop for about $100. You might want to consider getting a real
snare, too. You won't want to live with the machine after you
discover all the nuances of a real drum (unless your neighbors
think you should stay with headphones).
2) Synth -- if you remember how to program an analog synth, a good
(cheap) bet is an AKAI AX-80 or AX-60. Digital control, full
MIDI, velocity sensitive, analog guts, good factory warranty
support, and a price tag under $800. As far as programming
a DX7...good luck, it isn't worth the time, if you are used
to saying "hey, this VCO needs to be a little brighter, I'll
turn this knob".
3) Sampler -- Wait 6 months.
4) Recorder -- I have a Fostex A80 w/ 450 mixer. 8 tracks and
parametric eq for $2250. Well worth it. I also record voices
and acoustic instruments, so I don't sequence much of anything.
5) Microphones -- very important if you aren't just going to masturbate
on the keyboard. Get a Shure SM-57 for just about everything
from drums to guitars to vocals. For more money, get any Beyer
for a great vocal mic.
6) Mix-down -- use your home stereo, or the small monitor speakers
that everyone is now manufacturing. DO NOT mix down through
headphones. Trust me.
7) Effects -- mandatory are a digital delay and reverb. Don't
buy both in one package, unless you can program enough patches
and combinations to make you happy. The Alesis Microverb can
be had for $189 and it is a killer. Infinitely better than
Midiverb I or springs. If you have a good programmable digital
delay, you won't need a chorus or flanger. I sometimes run
everything thru my MXR phase 90 stomp box to get that "life
in the fast lane" sound. Then I wake up.
8) Don't forget you will need stands and tables for all this stuff.
A good mixing board desk is critical, as are headphones. If
you want to spend a little more, I believe you can get a basic
Synclavier system for about $12k.
Have fun, and don't sell more records than I do.
Ashley.
|
| 1029.7 | New Allesis micro box | MINDER::KENT | But there's no hole in the middle | Wed Dec 02 1987 05:13 | 15 |
|
On the general topics of new Alesis gear and studios, I have on
loan at the moment a "Micro"enhancer. I have had on loan in the
past an Aphex type b and have to say that despite its low price
the Allesis machine seems to be easier to use and more effective
in that you can add the usual psycho-accoustic goodies without
generating lots of noise. At 120 pounds it seems weel worth the
investment. And Edd if the quality of the past Allesis stuff is
worth going by I would hang on for the Drum Machine. There is little
doubt that it will be available in quantity in January if past
announcements are anything to go by.
Paul.
|
| 1029.8 | Gosh, I hate to sound like a salesman... | AKOV76::EATOND | Press.. Press.. Pull! (nyuk, nyuk) | Wed Dec 02 1987 08:51 | 13 |
| RE < Note 1029.6 by SRFSUP::MORRIS >
> 2) Synth -- if you remember how to program an analog synth, a good
> (cheap) bet is an AKAI AX-80 or AX-60. Digital control, full
>...
Or better yet, consider my JX8P analog synth advertised elsewhere in
this and other conferences. It's less than a year old, touch sensitive,
programmable, and a price tag less than you'll find it anywhere else - $575.
Ask around about the JX8P - its worth the time to research.
Dan
|
| 1029.9 | just a rumor but... | FROST::HARRIMAN | The correct answer is 42. | Wed Dec 02 1987 11:14 | 10 |
|
re: .-2 or 3
The SQ-80 sequencer software is rumored to be available as an upgrade
to the ESQ-1 at some point in the near future - it seems they use
pretty close to the same software. As for the disk drive, well,
I wish, I wish...
/pjh
|
| 1029.10 | Thanks for the advice! | HYEND::BKARL | | Sat Dec 05 1987 02:28 | 31 |
| Thanks for all the advice! - By the way, my name is Bill, I realized
later that I hadn't included my name!
I have been hitting the music stores around the area trying to
decide what I'll be getting. I've tried several keyboard controllers,
samplers, and synths. For a synth, I liked the Roland D 50 sound,
but it is only bi-timbrel and I don't know if I want to spend that
kind of money before I get something that is multi-timbrel. I
tried out and heard a sequenced demo of a Roland MT-32. I liked
quite a bit about it, but it seemed to be lacking in the area
of some nice fat synth sounds. It did sound good though. Some
nice effects, some good orchestral instrument sounds, jungle-
flute sounds - not sure how to explain it, pretty good percussion.
Will be trying to narrow down the field this coming week.
As far as an 8 track - I'm not sure what to get yet - I've heard
good arguments for both TASCAM and Fostex. I looked at a TASCAM and
it seems like a good deal with the attached mixer and DBX, but
I didn't look at it too closely so I'm going to read up on it more.
I always figured I'd get a TASCAM 38 but now I dunno - Fostex,
TASCAM 38 or (?) 48 or 388 ... need a 2 track too.
Well, thanks again! I got more help than I expected! Thanks for
making me feel welcome!
Bill
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