Conference napalm::commusic_v1

It has been brought to my attention that the Roland "Digital Piano
Box" is, in fact, the MKS-20, which is reviewed elsewhere in
this file.  From reading that note, it appears that my comments
are in sync with those of others, and that the warning of "Don't
get it in a preset-only implementation" is still reasonable. 
Still, there is a quite a variery of instruments out there in 
the Roland HP, Yamaha Clavinova, and Technics series.  Any other 
experiences?

    My approach would be to by a keyboard that I could use stand-alone
    initially, and then upgrade later with modules, amps, speakers,
    etc.  Given that, I would look for:
    
     a)	good action (ie, weighted keys which feel like a mechanical
    	piano)
    
     b)	good piano sound (ie, good sampled or synthesized sound, good
    	built-in amp and speakers)
    
     c)	MIDI
    
    I tried a Yamaha ClaviNova (I don't remember the model number)
    yesterday and was pretty impressed with its performance in the A
    and B areas, and I assume the MIDI implementation is pretty complete,
    although I don't know the details.
    
    Anyone have any more information on this or other similar units?

    The Yamaha Clavinova CLP-50 uses what they call AWM which means
    Advanced Wave "Something" (dont remeber). The tecnique is based
    on multi sampling, meaning they have sampled each note at different
    volumes, so depending on how strong you play a note the timber will
    also change. This model only offer one sound which is from a Grand
    Piano, ( it have also mellow,normal and bright versions of this).
    
    As far as MIDI goes it have MIDI in/out but not thru, and if you
    want to use it as a master keyboard you will probably need something
    like the MCS-2 to allow you to change patches and so on.
    
    The CLP-50 have stereo output, but also have a 2x20W amp built in.
    
    The other two pianos in this series is CLP-20 and CLP-30 and they
    are based on FM. CLP-50 and CLP-30 have 88 keys and CLP-20 have
    76 keys.
    
    As soon as my (my wifes) upright piano is sold, a CLP-50 is going
    to take its place.
    
    Svein.
    

    What's the price range on this series?
    
    Richard

The Clavinova (and its Roland Brother, the Hp-450,350 series) run 
around $1000 +- $200 depending on discounting and whether you go for 
66 or 88 key keyboard.  However, they are being quickly obsolesced 
(sp?) by the new sampling pianos (HP 2000, 3000, etc) which sell for 
as low as $1600.  The sampling ones (preset versions of the MKS 20) 
have a narrower range of keyboard sounds, but do a heck of a job 
imitating a piano.

    The Clavinova CLP-50 which was introduced in europe less than one
    year ago is also a presampled piano, and I dont think it will be
    out of date that quick.
    
    Svein.
    

    
    Before you get a clavinova check out rolands home piano
    line. period.
    
    rjr
        

    From what I've tried, the ClaviNova had a much better feel than
    the Roland.  Of course, I've only tried the low-end Roland, but
    I found the keys much too springy.
    
    Also, the ClaviNova had a row of speakers under the keyboard, so
    that the tones in various ranges seemed to come from the "right"
    place on the piano.

THe Roland HP 100,300,400 have unweighted keys.  These are an acquired 
taste, as, with the proper outboard electronics, it can be easier to do 
synth-type effects without the weights.  The Roland 350 and 450 (and 
2000,3000, etc) do have weighted keys.  I believe they're slower than 
the Yamaha keys, which have a more realistic feel.  (In fact, I was 
amazed at the nice, although unweighted, feel of the Yamaha YPR-9, 
compared to Roland, Yamaha seems to have something on the ball in
designing key touch).  This, of course, is taste - I suggest you try 
both yerself.  

THe high end Rolands (4500,5500) have speakers in the right place.  
Personally, I just put my amp under my piano.

    
    I dont understand what youre after. To my ears and fingers,
    a realistic piano must sound AND feel like a piano. 
    
    Most of the instruments discussed fall way short of the
    Roland 4500 or 5500 in those categories. The RD1000 also
    performs nicely, but is big $$$.

    What keyboards do you own?    

    What music do you play?
    
    ron
    

    As I mentioned in an earlier reply to this note I was planing to
    buy a Yamaha CLP-50. Well it have now happened. Maybe a MKS-20 is
    better, but since it is going to be used by my wife and daugther
    I needed a simple to use piano. The CLP-50 you just switch on and
    you start to play, and that is how it had to be since my wife is
    alergic to switches and controls. After listening to the tape from
    Karl Moeller I know that the MKS is a super piano module, but then
    you need an extra keyboard. To my ears the CLP does the job as a
    piano just as good. So to monsieur "period" Ross, Don't shoot the
    CLP player.
    
    Svein.
    

    It's very hard to buy something that you can't touch, feel, hear
    or even see.
    
    Last fall I moved, and can't fit my old upright into my house. 
    So, I've decided to go electric.  And, I believe I want a Roland.
    But no music stores in my area have any in stock.  I think I've
    settled on a Roland RD-300.  Hampshire Music (Keene) quoted me
    a list of $2095, so I figure I can get it for around $1800.
    Is this a reasonable price?
    
    No one has been able to even show me a picture of the RD-300 --
    I'm told it has 88 keys, is portable, and I'll love it.  Are
    they right?  Should I put a deposit on it and have the store
    get one for me?
    
    Jo-Ann

    re .12	I thought Hampshire Music (Keene) didn't have the franchise
    for that slice of Roland's product line ?   Anyway, I've seen the
    RDs in Daddy's Manchester and E U Wurlitzer Worcester.  Call 'em
    up first to see if they still have stock, then go for a test drive;
    its a beautiful day for playin' hookey.
    
    	Reg
    

Check it out first!  Hear it and feel it.  You may find that the feel of
the keys or the sound isn't to your liking.

I've been looking around for a synth+sequencer for about half a year and
haven't purchased one yet, shopping around before making the big dive.

Dan

    I own an RD-300.
    
    It does have 88 keys, and it is "portable" but it is very large
    (the box just barely fit in my station wagon), and moderately heavy.
    
    *I* love the keyboard feel.  It is a weighted, velocity sensitive
    keyboard but be warned that the action is very light compared to
    most pianos.  Also, Ron Ross tried it out and made the comment that
    the travel of the keyboard is somewhat long (the distance you have
    to push the key).
    
    I am very happy with the sounds it produces.  It has 3 piano sounds,
    all of which are excellent, but quite similar.  clavinet, harpsichord,
    vibraphone and 2 electric piano sounds (one of which is obviously
    Rhodes, the other one is probably supposed to sound like a Wurlitzer).
    
    I love the acoustic piano sounds, and totally dig the rhodes piano
    sound (especially when you add the built-in stereo chorus and tremolo).
    It's a really top-notch rhodes sound.
    
    I got mine at Daddy's Junky Music in Manchester (salesman was Ralph).
    Now I paid $1600 for it, BUT... I bought a TON of other stuff at
    the same time and this was part of a package.  I also bought it
    during the slow season (around February).  I doubt you could get
    the same deal, but doesn't hurt to try.
    
    Jo-Ann, or anyone is welcome to come over to my place to see and play
    it if you want.  I live in Hudson, NH.  I'm about 20 minutes from
    the Spit Brook Road facility (where I work), and about 15 minutes
    from NH Exit 3 on I-93.

    	db