Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I bought a Yamaha breath controller as a gift once.  What a piece of
    CRAP! Anyway, this is the way I think it works.  As you may have
    noticed, it is just a small plastic doohickey with a tiny hole at one
    end and a wire leading from it.  When you blow into the thing, it
    hisses like a dog whistle.  I believe there is an ultrasonic pickup at
    one end that "listens" to this noise. The harder you blow the louder
    the hiss.  This voltage is then amplified, rectified, smoothed, and
    used as a control voltage. 

    I don't know if this is how it works for sure, but from all
    indications, that seems to be the case.  Needless to say, it doesn't
    work very well.  Stay away from it. 

    John M. 

    
    What it the BC intended for? I have one that came with the KX88
    but apart from setting it up to do pitch wheel type modulation to
    keep both hands free I can't really see the point. What do Yam intend
    you to do with it?
    
    				Paul.

    I think Todd's theory regarding a piezo is probably the closest,
    if not the actual, way it works. The end is terminated in a 3 wire
    1/8" stereo-type (tip, ring, sleeve) connector. 
    
    I threw mine on a DVM last night. A good "blast" into the thing
    produced a voltage up to about 150mv between tip and ring. 
    
    Use of the unit seems to take over parts (if not all) of the EG
    of those operators set to respond to it. 
    
    The hole in the sucker forces you to keep blowing for the duration
    of the note, hence modulating the amplitude for the duration. Blocking
    the hole with your finger makes the thing *TONS* easier to play.
    I think it would be better if it offered more resistance to you.
    I'm a pretty heavy smoker and a couple minutes with this thing sends
    me to hyper-vent city...
    
    I'm not impressed either... Luckily it was cheap.
    
    Edd
    

    
                                Ring
                                 |
                                 v
                    ----------- --- --v--                -----
                              | | | |     \                ^
                    Sleeve    | | | |     /  <-- Tip       v   1/8"
                    ----------- --- --^--                -----
                               ^   ^
                                \ /
                             Non - conductive
                                                                      
    TOm, when you were 11, what names did you learn these parts by?
    If your still confused, give me a ring. I have a tip for you. I
    promise there's nothing up my sleeve.
    
    :^)
    
    Edd
    
    

    The nominal purpose of a breath controller is to allow the sort
    of expression typical of wind instruments, in a way more natural
    to wind players than keyboard velocity and aftertouch.  If you're
    not a wind player it must feel as unnatural as a keyboard feels
    to them.  The Yamaha may just be a poor implementation.  I learned
    this when I was 37.

    len (again, not an expert in this subject, but admitting this is
    good for my soul).
    

Good.  It's piezo.  Thanks Edd.  It'll be fun to hook up a simmons pad and 
see what happens.  This way I can create a good Bass drum or snare drum patch
on the DX and set up the appropriate BC parameters and voila!  Geez, does
the BC cause the DX to send MIDI data?  Wow, a simmons to MIDI converter!!!!!
Just what I've always wanted!

The breath controller can allow you to do LFO modulation, and can also
allow you to control the operator envelopes as discussed in .0.  This
means that you can control timbre and/or volume as well.  Not bad!  
It does have its uses.

Edd is right about the hole in the thing.  I strongly recommend putting
a piece of tape over the hole.  This way you don't have to blow into
the thing - you just apply pressure using the air you have in your mouth.

Todd who_will_experiment_and_post.

PS: anyone have a good piezo foot pedal?  How about a microphone that's piezo?
    [a piezo tweeter hooked up as a backwards?] The possiblities are endless!

    
    But if you cover up the whole how will you breath.
    
    
    				Paul.

>    But if you cover up the whole how will you breath.

Don't tell me you bought the nose controller too!

Re: .8, .9

    I think he meant tape the hole on the controller, not the hole(s) in
    your head.  I learned about this when I was VERY young ... Of course,
    I'm no expert on the subject ... 8-}}

    brad the ridiculous

I mentioned a jam I had in an earlier note with a celtic musician, formerly a
classical french horn player, who used a DX7 with a breath controller.  The guy
had incredible technique and sounded exactly like natural horns when using the
breath controller with horn patches.  Wasn't just the DX7 sounds, because I
heard the patches both ways.  You have to coordinate the tongueing with the
fingering on the keyboard to get it right, apparantly.


				Mark

    How old was he when he learned this?
    
    Edd

    Some of the better earphones (can you say "mono") as used for a
    portable radio (something that came before walkmans) are piezo's.
    They can be used as a simple microphone; just connect it up.
    
    They are flesh colored with a screw-in clear plastic earpiece and
    a twisted (usually) flesh colored cord.  Unscrew the earpiece and
    inside is an aluminum diaphram with a wire or something cemented 
    through the center.
    
    Radio Shack probably has em for two or three bucks.
                                
    Fredric  	DVINCI::CERTO
    

    You guys are all very young, and you haven't learned anything!
    I, on the other hand, am developing a dotage transducer, with
    which I shall endeavor to modulate my decay.
    
    Yours with sustain,
    David
    

    
    Linear, exponential, or F(x_sub_yamaha)  decay, david?

    Is that in reference to lung capacity for exhaling 
    through a b.c.?
    
    Great, live performance anyone? all you have to do is:
        
    	Right hand on one kbd
    	left hand on another
    	right foot on sustain,volume, or midi_related switchs/pedals
    	left foot playing bass pedals
    	a gismo in the mouth doing something
    	your nose playing the drum machine?
        
    Whats left? "Air-drum" transducers crazyglued to your elbows.
    eyelids and ears (if you can wiggle yours) may be capable of
    conversion to midi info. And knees. Ah, Ive got the ultimate:
    a "private-parts"-to-midi-converter.
    
    What was the subject of this note again?
    
    ron
    
     	

	The trouble with breath controllers is due to not being a wind player I
bet.  I tried a friends DX7 with the controller and didn't have too much trouble
at all. It requires the same kind of air control as playing wind instruments or
singing. 

Good to hear you say that Steve.  Now I'm more convinced than ever that I want
one.  Hopefully without departing from the subject of the original note, I
hope someone could briefly answer ("yes"/"no") whether the FB01 supports the
BC input or not.

The guy I jammed with was in his late thirties and had just recently bought
the breath controller.  He played French Horn in the Syracuse (?) Symphony
for several years, though...


				Mark

    
    The FB01 supports breath as a voice Pitch Modulation Destination.
    (not exacly what we want...) See note in 463.83 or so, which 
    I'm just about to write...
    
    ron
    

    
    I'd also like to try experimenting with the breath contoller I/P .
    
    I have a DX100 but no breath controller (and am not tempted to buy
    one after all I've heard in this file) I was thinking of using a
    paddle arrangement attached to a potentiometer ..
    
    Edd can you or someone else tell me if the "150 mv" produced by the 
    breath controller is A.C or D.C ?
    
    Thanx
    Steve...
    

RE < Note 558.19 by KLOV04::COLLINS "Steve @ Clonmel Ireland" >

	I know you pop in now and again, Steve, so I hope you catch this note 
again.  Did you ever build the alternate controller for the breath control
port of your DX-100?

	The following is an open question to any or all the technodweebs in
residence...

	I've been toying with this idea for some time, but would like some 
advise on my current plans (get it? 'current' plans... (ahem)).

	I have a Korg MS-10 that sports a pretty elaborate patch panel for
re-routing things.  Among other things, it allows you to control the filter, 
or the pitch, or the LFO amount via foot pedal, or the multi-purpose wheel,
etc.  In the never-ending quest to simplify live playing, I've wanted to
build a breath controller for these routings.

	The voltage is +/- 5 volts.

	If I were to act on someone's suggestion of taking one of those flesh
colored earplugs, attatching a tube of some kind to blow into, amplifying the
voltage somehow to get at least the positive side of the 5 volt requirement,
do you think it would work?  Any caveats?  Could anyone help me with the 
amplification circuit design?  (I was simply going to try a simple op-amp
circuit to start with)

	Dan
    

    Serious question: Why would you want to go through the gymnastics
    of building a controller when you can buy a BC-1 for ~$30???
    
    Edd

RE < Note 558.22 by JAWS::COTE "yawn..." >

	For one thing, the earphone thingy is only $1.49, and the related
amplification circuitry I'd expect would bring the total cost to less than
$10.  Secondly, I'm not sure it'll work for the MS-10.  I'd rather not spend 
thirty bucks for a non-returnable item when I'm less than confident of the
results.  (BTW, no-one that I know still sells the BC-1, they all have the
BC-2, and all want more than $30 for it).  Finally, I'd appreciate the
education I'd get out of building it meself.
    
    Dan

    A couple of problems:
    
    The "earphone thingy" you're referring to comes in two flavors:
    a dynamic one and a crystal one.  I haven't seen a crystal one
    in years, but it's the kind you need.  The dynamic ones only produce
    a voltage when the diaphragm moves, not when the diaphragm is 
    stationary-but-under-pressure.  Second problem is that the crystal
    type is VERY high output impedance; zillions of ohms.  You'll need
    a very high impedance op-amp to get a decent DC signal out of it.
    A TL082 is probably enough.  Third problem is that those crystal
    earphones dissolve in saliva. :-(
    
    
    How about this instead:  Take an orange juice can.  In the bottom put a
    flashlight lamp and a CdS cell, shielded from each other by a soda
    straw 'round the flashlight lamp.  Stretch a piece of baloon or other
    elastomer across the mouth of the can.  Halfway from edge to center on
    the balloon membrane glue a small piece of mirror (or aluminum foil).
    Punch a hole in the side of the can to blow into (or to glue a rubber
    tube into. 
    
    Light goes up the soda straw, and bounces off the mirror.
    Depending on the angle of the mirror, it either hits the CdS cell
    square-on, or only partly, or misses.  That's how you get 
    a proportional resistance out (CdS cell resistance varies with
    light intensity).
    
    You may want to flip the assembly inside out at first so that 
    you can adjust the light and CdS cell without taking the balloon
    off of the can.  But such is life...
                     
    A cat-food can would be kind of neat to use, too.  A real punk-rock
    look.
         

RE < Note 558.24 by MIDEVL::YERAZUNIS >

	Thanks, Bill.

	I think I'd need to refine the oj can/balloon idea, as I'd think there'd
be little control over the actual resistance that would be sent...

	What if I were able to find the crystal-type earphone?  Couldn't I just
set some kind of diaphragm in front of the crystal to keep it from coming into 
contact with the saliva?

	Or for that matter, would some kind of a microphone be better?

	Dan

	Has anyone else ever used one of these breath controllers?

	I was playing around with one on a DX100 MIDI's to the TX81Z and had a
nice tone coming from the BC Trombone sound (ROM patch).

	BUT

	It seems that now, instead of sending a nice gradual signal from the
breath controller, it sends the voltage in steps, making it very unnatural
when you try for a slow attack.

	Is mine BC1 broken?  Is it an easy fix?

	Dan

    I've got one and have never noticed any zipperization, even when I used
    it for a slow, bluesy, back-porch harmonica on John Mellencamp's tune
    "Small Town"...
    
    I submit yours is broke.
    
    They are easy to fix. There's only one part that can break (the entire
    unit), so ya just swap it out...
    
    I imagine some zipp'in is inevitable. The BC-1 output is an analog
    voltage, so it must be converted into discrete steps. I suppose that
    would cause a zipper effect, but I've never heard it.
    
    Sorry...
    
    Edd

    Might also check the sensitivity setting on the TZ.  Could be too high,
    maybe?
    
    Steve